robs vr STILL A NON STARTER!!!!!!!

[robrado974 1]

Did not want to put this in me members bit in case it got missed . following what rw1 has put in my gallery bit , yes the c was cranked and according to the auto electrician tested properly . The only fault that came up was the speed sensor . Put the new one in today and it still wont start !. Need some more help please ,where do i go from here ??? The only clue i have is what ever it is that has broken has taken a while to give up , was told the coil normally will just go and not break down slowly . Help needed please .Regards rob

Edited September 9, 2011 by robrado974

[fla 9]

ecu relay 109 functioning ok? If not there will be no spark or fuel. Bridge it first to see if it is at fault (chack the back of the relay to confirm which two to bridge). Its about £12 from the dealer. Ignition switch ok? A bit of a mission to change but again the switch bit itself is only about £10 from VW. Have you checked that there is a spark? Pull a lead and hold it near the block when the engine is running - a spark should jump across. Alternatively, check each plug to see that they are all 'light brown' and not oily or wet. Is there fuel at the rail? Again could be fuel filter blockage, fuel pump relay 167, or the fuel pump itself( hopefully not, but listen for buzzing in the fuel tank).

Forget VAGCOM for the moment, look at the simpler (and cheaper!) things first. Good luck and keep us posted.

[robrado974 1]

Hi fla not sure what is ment by bridging to test a fault ?. Ignition switch is the new black one so should be ok . There is no spark , held the plug on the head and there was nothing .As for the fuel i have one of those fuel savers on the side of the block , i slowly slid the pipe off and the fuel was spurting out . Mabe the ecu relay is the problem . He did say the ecu was coming up but they do that because you are crankin it over n over ? dont know bout this ? but he said he was not worried bout it and doubted the ecu had gone , Regards rob .

[fla 9]

i doubt the ecu has gone too - i'll have a look at the wiring diag and try and get back to you asap to let you know which two to bridge. You can even use a paper clip opened out as this is the low current side.

Fuel will go to the rail, but if 109 is goosed the injectors wont open.

 

Take a few spark plugs out and see if they are wet - if so the injectors are opening and the fault is only with spark generation. Try and replace 109 tomorrow if you can just to rule it out.

[robrado974 1]

Ok mate thanks will do . Thanks for the help . you will have to tell me how to bridge though ! . Think between you and rw1 i should get there in the end . Regards Rob

[RW1 0]

If its the fuel pump relay, it shows as fault 01259, so th eECU thinks that is connecting the pump by being absent.

 

Can't find anywhere what the electrician found with coil checking???

 

.

Edited September 9, 2011 by RW1

[robrado974 1]

How is relay 109 identified ? matt vr is tryin to find it ,so i can fit it in mine , to see if she starts . regards rob

 

---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------

 

lol rw1 .............why do you live so far away .would have this sorted by now if you were closer , lol.

[RW1 0]

Ha, a Storm owner had me called out this afternoon, my time may have to become premium rated. lol Job done.....

 

Here, it has 109 printed on the top face. Part number 357 906 381A or if its been replaced, it could be 1J0 906 381 A without a 109 stamped on top but in the same position as the one marked 109 in the photo.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49139[/ATTACH]

 

.

Edited September 9, 2011 by RW1

[robrado974 1]

If its the fuel pump relay, it shows as fault 01259, so th eECU thinks that is connecting the pump by being absent.

 

Can't find anywhere what the electrician found with coil checking???

 

.

 

well as i say the only one that came up was the speed sensor. Was not sure if relays came up? thought they would being electrical. The electrician said the coil would have a burn like mark on it ,when they go ? . I really dont know !. Thats where i run into problems . Mechanical i will take something apart write down what i have done ,then refit with new parts , elecrical is completely different , i dont have a clue !.

 

---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 PM ----------

 

Ha, a Storm owner had me called out this afternoon, my time may have to become premium rated. lol Job done.....

 

Here, it has 109 printed on the top face. Part number 357 906 381A or if its been replaced, it could be 1J0 906 381 A without a 109 stamped on top but in the same position as the one marked 109 in the photo.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49139[/ATTACH]

 

.

 

Ah mabe because matts is a later vr ,things are different ? Thanks for your help yet again , kind regards ,Rob

[RW1 0]

I think the fuel pump relay 67 or 167 depending how its marked on the top face is OK. ie, no fault thrown, and they would have seen that. I get it in winter storage as I take it out for dry cranking and also security. Have to clear the fault code each spring.

 

.

 

---------- Post added at 10:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 PM ----------

 

Ah mabe because matts is a later vr ,things are different ? Thanks for your help yet again , kind regards ,Rob

 

Standard position on the fuse/relay plate. The relay in the 3rd from left, 2nd relay row up above fuses where 109 is in the photo is the ECU relay. No matter whether early or late VR6.

 

.

[robrado974 1]

Thanks mate matt has seen your post gone out to his c and removed it for me . so i can check tommorow . Really glad this forum exsists and friends with c's live close to me . I will get to the bottom of this !

[robrado974 1]

Well fitted matts 109 relay and she still wont start . Another part to tick off the list , but i am getting very frustrated by this .

[RW1 0]

How's the battery charge at the moment? Below 10 volts when cranking the engine, it won't start anyway.

 

You any good with measuring simple voltages at certain points?

 

.

[robrado974 1]

Hi mate the battery is now flat ,need to get it out and on charge . Never measured volts n stuff . Not sure what comes up with vagcom ,which parts ? and what does not . Trying to eleminate things as i go . regards Rob

[RW1 0]

I'd try the 109 relay again once the battery has had a good charge. (And you will need to keep an eye on it for being above 10 volts in future.)

 

If not that, I thinking of just probing around at certain points on the car to see if 12 volts is present. Off out, but if after the charge and things still don't work, I will post few simple points to check just eliminate. Not as complicated as the earlier coil checks.

 

.

[robrado974 1]

Ok mate i will charge the battery and try the relay again . Thanks again . Kind regards Rob .

[robrado974 1]

Ok battery fully charged 109 relay changed for matts [which we know works] and we still have didly squot.

[volksworld13 0]

ok start from the basics. do you have a spark at the plug, you check this by removing the spark plug and rest it on the head with the lead connected, turn the engine over, see if you have a spark.

do you have an aftermarket alarm or immobiliser fitted?

silly question are you low on fuel? whats the guage reading, you could have a faulty fuel guage, another check is on the fuel rail there is a valve, if you turn the ignition on, the pump should prime and there should be fuel under pressure, if you get a screwdriver and depress the valve does fuel squirt out?

[robrado974 1]

Hi volks , no there is no spark from the plug ,was the first test i did, as said above i have a fuel saving device on the side of the head , have partly removed a pipe and its squirtin out fuel .I do have an after market alarm with immobiliser ,if the alarm has not been used ,you have to press the small fob button otherwise the ignition comes on and thats it ,she wont crank. Regards Rob

[RW1 0]

A few things as I believe "no spark" needs sorting first......

 

1) Voltmeter time...... There is a totally black wire of 3 that goes to the connector on the coil. Pull off the connector, switch on the ignition and check its got battery volts on it of around 12 volts. Thats the coil supply. Switch off the ignition.

 

2) Now in resistance mode, check the Brown wire is going to earth on the coil connection.

 

3) Disconnect the ECU connector and check pin 8 goes to the black with red stripe on the coil connection of 3 wires - middle pin. Reconect the coil connection.

 

4) Switch on the ignition with the ECU still disconnected. Check pin 38 has battery 12 volts. On pin 23 check for battery 12 volts. Switch off ignition.

 

5) At the ECU connector, check pin 54 has battery 12 volts without the ignition switched on.

 

6) On pins 1, 55 & 56 all go to earth. Reconnect the ECU conector.

 

7) On the dizzy connection, check the brown with black strip goes to earth. Reconnect.

 

All OK??? So all the 12 volt supplies & earths are present to the coil/dizzy/ECU and feed from relay 109 at the ECU end.

 

8.) Then disconnect the engine main multi-wire connector on the back left top corner. Twisting collar action. Check for push back pins in the connector & socket. Spray with WD40 and wipe off excess. Reconnect and try starting if the battery is not below 12 volts.

 

.

[robrado974 1]

Ok thanks chris [matt told me who you were ] . Will try to do this this week . Regards Rob

 

Edit i did go back again to the car put more fuel in just in case of sketchy reading off of gage , slid back the metal clasp that holds the fuel pipe onto the rail and fuel is present Also checked for spark again ,unless i need to go to specsavers i cant see one , lol.

Edited September 11, 2011 by robrado974

[Chris Langdon 0]

rob i will print out what RW1 has put and bring over my multi meter some time this week,

 

regards

 

chris

[robrado974 1]

Thanks bud appreciate the help , give us a bell when you can come over . Thanks mate ,Rob

[Portent 0]

I can't offer any practical advice but just a little moral support. Don't dispair. You'll get there eventually.

[robrado974 1]

I can't offer any practical advice but just a little moral support. Don't dispair. You'll get there eventually.

 

Thanks mate need all the support i can get . I hope it is something that the meter can find and not something thats staring me right in the face , goin to feel like a right plum ,lol. I can just see chris now ,head in the bay and saying '' er rob you may want to connect this wire ''.