what is this?

[vw_john 10]

something to do with airflow? anyway there is an adjustable screw inside what does it do?

 

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 PM ----------

 

also is there anything that looks out of place in my bay? its an old picture and has been cleaned since! oh and the piping for the CC has been removed

[owen g60 10]

that is your lambda/O2 probe i would not recommend you adjust this at all.

 

Also get a standard air box back on it as after market filters are not the best thing for your charger.

 

I notice you have had a boost return delete kit put on... it looks like the one for sale on ebay... i would check that the plate on the charger seals properly as you dont want to be sucking crap in through any gaps.

[Redfox 10]

I may speak against better knowing, but I would suggest to take that tempsensor off, and sprayclean it with some brakecleaner, and make certain that theres no oil or other deposits on the sensor, as it would otherwise read temp wrong and send false data = less power. While you're at it, clean up the hard plastic tubes as well.

What is sometimes done is spraying liberally with filteroil on the cotton gauze filter, to make sure it will filter dirt, but intead the G-ladder sucks oil in and further on, and this is as far as I understood not wishfull thinking. Clean it extremely well and an absolute minimum of filteroil on outside.

From many years with Laverda motorcycles I have seen what a set of K&N pod filters can do to an expensive set of DellOrto carbs, and it's not a pleasant sight. So duly advised by others yesterday as well, I have now inserted a standard paperfilter into the standard box. More predictable and stable airflow, and no engine heat in there as well.

On my former Mk II Golf, I also had a Sparco cone filter like yours, and I made up an isolating wall from stainless steel with some rubber sealing to protect it and the car. Worked nice, but does not make the filter better ;)

Maybe someone can elaborate on this some more.

 

Cheers,

Redfox.

[vw_john 10]

Right, thought it might be something along those lines, could it be used if your car was running rich? because mine is and i have tried everything else, wouldn't put it past the previous owner to have tinkled with it.

I'd love to, just need to source one, I didn't get any spare parts with my car, that crappy wolfrace one is probably sucking in the sahara and it hasn't even got a heat shield!

Yeah it looks like that too me as well, how would I check, I have ran my hand around it while its running and cant feel any air.

thanks Owen.

 

---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 PM ----------

 

Thanks for the info Redfox!

[Redfox 10]

About running rich, I don't havee a clue, but read somewhere on this site, that some people put in another thermostat that opens earlier, and that could in some cases make the ecu think it needs to keep warming up, and go rich/burning a lot of fuel/bad economy/heavy CO2.

Just a guess, and maybe the more experienced could confirm or erase this?

 

John, what's your milage? (liter per 100 km)?

 

Cheers,

Redfox.

[owen g60 10]

the O2 sensor can be adjusted in conjunction with your idle screw to get the idle and fueling correct.... unless you have a CO2 probe and know how to check your timing i would advise that you get a mechanic to do it... preferably a VAG specialist who deals with a lot of the older models (newer VAG specialists are not a lot of cop IMO)

[RW1 0]

Its a temperature sender. You can read its temperature output in VCDS, group 000, 1st field on the left side. If a 1992 G60.

 

- Ignition ON.

- Remove the sender.

- VCDS to Measuring Blocks (08), select Group 000.

- Note the reading in the 1st field.

- Spray the sender with electronics chilling spray from aerosol.

- At the same time, watch the 1st field, its value must rise.

- Exit VCDS, ignition OFF.

 

Not responding?? New sensor.

 

If VCDS doesn't show a rising value, then check wires are OK

- Brown/White stripe to earth.

- Black/White stripe to ECU pin 9

 

.

Edited September 12, 2011 by RW1

[vw_john 10]

hmm, its at 125k and on a long run im getting 38mpg or 35 on an average run.

unfortunatley its a 91' so i presume i cant do that check?

i'll see if i can get my mechanic to do it for free when i get my subframe put on ;] haha.

cheers for all your help guys

[RW1 0]

OK, this way then, this way....

 

- Disconnect the connection to the sensor.

- Put a DVM resistance across sensor pin 2 (as Blue/White stripe on loom) and pin 3 (as Brown/White Stripe on loom)

- Measure the resistance, assuming it is at 15'C - 20'C surrounding air temp, should be 2.5k to 3k ohm. Note it.

- Now freeze it, the resistance reading should rise beyond 6k ohm (0'C point is 6K ohm approx)

- Or warm it up and it should start lowering, towards 200 ohm.

 

Sensor not OK, new one.

 

Now the adjustment.....

 

- Across Sensor pin 1 (as Blue wire on loom) and pin 3 (as Brown/White Stripe on loom)

- Resistance should vary from 0 to 2K ohm across its full travel.

 

Resistance doesn't vary, new sensor.

 

As before, not getting these check the same wires...

- Brown/White stripe to earth.

- Black/White stripe to ECU pin 9

plus

- Blue goes to pin 5 on ECU.

 

.

[vw_john 10]

you my friend know alot! i'll have to have a smash at that and get back to you!

[steveo29 0]

that is your lambda/O2 probe i would not recommend you adjust this at all.

 

just so you know for next time...lambda goes in the exhaust , were getting alot of dud answers on here latley

[P3rks 11]

Are we looking at the same picture and black arrow here or what? :scratch:

 

The picture I see is for the Co Pot. The sensor which reads the air going into the engine and adjusts the fuelling accordingly. Not the lambda/O2 or blue temp sensor.

 

You should measure the resistance across pin 1 & 3 with the plug removed and see between 500-600 ohms as a guide. You adjust the screw to adjust the figure. If I remember correctly if you measure between pin 2 & 3 then blow on the sensor you should see a fluctuation.

 

The lower the resistance the richer the car is, the higher the number the leaner it is.

 

38mpg on a long run is very good btw so I would say your car isn't running rich at all. 28mpg on a long run I would start to be concerned. I average 33-37mpg on a long run with mixed driving and some erm.. foot to the floor moments. 43.5mpg is my best and that was set straight off, onto a duel carriage way, then motorway with no stopping for traffic/lights, sat 60mph on the motorway for about 100miles. Yawn.

Edited September 13, 2011 by P3rks

[vw_john 10]

Right, so its for measuring air mass then?

I did think that was a good result, but then again that is only from the readout on the dash so it could be wrong.

I just think its running rich because i have a black buildup in by back box, even if i clean it out, after about 15 minutes driving there is already residue in there!

so I take the plug out and measure the resistance across pin 1&2 when its idling or off? and while measuring tweak the screw till i get between 500-600 ohms?

cheers

[P3rks 11]

Its for measuring air entering the engine.. I would presume air mass or air content.. Maybe someone could clarify this? it also measures Air Temp.

 

Well, yeah, black soot on the exhaust usually indicates a rich mixture.

 

Simply unplug the connection on the co-pot, but leave the co-pot where it is. Measure resistance (in ohms) across pin 1 & 3 and see what the reading is. If you adjust the screw whilst measuring the reading will change. Do this when the car's turned off I think.

 

Most people advise between 500-600 for a chipped/tuned G60. I think 431 or there abouts is factory standard iirc. But like I say, this is a loose guide and realistically you'll need a gas analyser to set it up properly.

 

In short my understanding is that the Co-Pot affects the mixture on idle, but not on partial throttle as the lambda takes over in the fuelling dept. Then on WOT (wide open throttle) a map table within the ECU uses a MAP (manifold air pressure) sensor in the ecu along with readings based loosely on the Co-pot and blue temp sensor.

 

I.e: This much manifold air pressure, at this air temp, with this much CO and at this coolant temp = chuck this much fuel in.

Edited September 13, 2011 by P3rks

[vw_john 10]

Right to get back to you on that. i was at 31! i have turned it up to 500. the car still starts, can't see any difference. suppose thats good.

the idle is smoother though, I think.

would 31 be really bad?

[P3rks 11]

31 isn't good at all. That's very very, rich! Anything below 400 is considered low, imo.

 

Are you sure that you are using te correct setting on your multimeter?

 

Leave it at 500 for now, take it for a spin/drive and see what it feels like, check the exhaust for soot.

 

Edit: you better double check you used the correct reading on the multimeter, if you run it too lean you'll risk damaging your engine.

Edited September 13, 2011 by P3rks

[vw_john 10]

checked a few times, there's only one setting for ohms on my multimeter, dad knows a thing or too about that sort of thing and it was definitely at 31, from 1 to 3 and 3 to 1, don't know if there's a difference swapping it over but I tried it anyway.

maybe someone in the past had a problem with starting, tried that and forgot to turn it back? didn't you say that it only uses it for idle and any driving uses the lambda?

[P3rks 11]

checked a few times, there's only one setting for ohms on my multimeter, dad knows a thing or too about that sort of thing and it was definitely at 31, from 1 to 3 and 3 to 1, don't know if there's a difference swapping it over but I tried it anyway.

maybe someone in the past had a problem with starting, tried that and forgot to turn it back? didn't you say that it only uses it for idle and any driving uses the lambda?

 

When I did mine it only worked one way; can;t remember if its 1 to 3 or 3 to 1. Mine was a cheap multimeter though.

 

It works for idle mainly.

Not for part throttle.

But is used for full throttle.

[vw_john 10]

well, when the subframe been fitted I'll give it a blast and bring this thread up. how would the engine get damaged from running lean?

and the multimeter I used was apparently an expensive one. although surely measuring resistance it wouldn't matter which way it goes round because its going to resist either way?

[P3rks 11]

well, when the subframe been fitted I'll give it a blast and bring this thread up. how would the engine get damaged from running lean?

and the multimeter I used was apparently an expensive one. although surely measuring resistance it wouldn't matter which way it goes round because its going to resist either way?

 

Resistance should probably, I hate electrics and I have a crap meter so I'm unsure.

 

Anyway, running lean promotes higher temps in an engine, boosted cars run at high temp anyway, so you risk melting a piston or something.

[vw_john 10]

...f*ckery. Is this just going to happen or is there anyway of me anticipating this? got a mind to turn it back down...

[RW1 0]

Pin 2 to 3 is measuring air temp in the duct not flow. Which is why I gave you temperature points.

 

Pin 1 to 3 is a control circuit to the ecu, results in setting CO level.

 

 

- Warm engine at idle.

- All electrical loads OFF (ie. inside fan, lights radio etc. Bare minimum electrics on)

- Crankcase breather hose pulled off pressure regulator and routed so that only fresh air can be drawn in.

- Connector Blue, 2 pin for coolant temperature sender pulled off with engine running.

 

(If you stall the engine during CO adjustment/Idle adjustment, the Blue connector must be reconnected to

the coolant temp sender before re-starting the engine and come back to this point and follow the instructions again below)

 

- Radiator fan must not run.

- Setting the CO needs an analyser (obviously),

- Rev the engine 3 times over 3,000 rpm and back below in very quick succession.

- ECU ready to learn.

- Turn the pot clockwsie to increase CO level, anti-clockwise to decrease. Aim for 0.5% - 0.7%.

- use the idle screw to keep rpm at roughly 750 rpm - 850 rpm while doing the CO adjustments.

- Keep alternating adjustment of the CO/idle speed until idle speed/CO level is acheived.

- CO set? Set idle to 800 rpm.

- Rev the engine 3 times over 3,000 rpm and back below in very quick succession.

- ECU values now accepted.

- Reconnect the blue temp connector.

- Reconnect the breather hose.

- Check idle & CO are still as set.

- Job done.

 

.

[P3rks 11]

...f*ckery. Is this just going to happen or is there anyway of me anticipating this? got a mind to turn it back down...

 

I'm not sure.. But like I say, between 500-600 is the standard set up at a guesstimate. If you're concerned you're better off taking it to a a garage to get it set up on a CO tester.

 

 

Pin 2 to 3 is measuring air temp in the duct not flow. Which is why I gave you temperature points.

 

Pin 1 to 3 is a control circuit to the ecu, results in setting CO level.

 

 

- Warm engine at idle.

- All electrical loads OFF (ie. inside fan, lights radio etc. Bare minimum electrics on)

- Crankcase breather hose pulled off pressure regulator and routed so that only fresh air can be drawn in.

- Connector Blue, 2 pin for coolant temperature sender pulled off with engine running.

 

(If you stall the engine during CO adjustment/Idle adjustment, the Blue connector must be reconnected to

the coolant temp sender before re-starting the engine and come back to this point and follow the instructions again below)

 

- Radiator fan must not run.

- Setting the CO needs an analyser (obviously),

- Rev the engine 3 times over 3,000 rpm and back below in very quick succession.

- ECU ready to learn.

- Turn the pot clockwsie to increase CO level, anti-clockwise to decrease. Aim for 0.5% - 0.7%.

- use the idle screw to keep rpm at roughly 750 rpm - 850 rpm while doing the CO adjustments.

- Keep alternating adjustment of the CO/idle speed until idle speed/CO level is acheived.

- CO set? Set idle to 800 rpm.

- Rev the engine 3 times over 3,000 rpm and back below in very quick succession.

- ECU values now accepted.

- Reconnect the blue temp connector.

- Reconnect the breather hose.

- Check idle & CO are still as set.

- Job done.

 

.

 

Nice.. So this is the proper way to do it then? Where as testing the resistance is just a guess and the most common values?

 

Stupid question, but adjusting the resistance with the switch unplugged and doing it your way are two ways of doing the same thing? Or is it setting up two different things?

[dannyboy 0]

I'm not sure.. But like I say, between 500-600 is the standard set up at a guesstimate. If you're concerned you're better off taking it to a a garage to get it set up on a CO tester.

 

 

 

 

Nice.. So this is the proper way to do it then? Where as testing the resistance is just a guess and the most common values?

 

Stupid question, but adjusting the resistance with the switch unplugged and doing it your way are two ways of doing the same thing? Or is it setting up two different things?

 

Yep its the proper way.

 

removing blue temp sender puts the ecu into 'emergency mode' which is the same as maintance mode

revving the engine three times over 3,000 rpm cancels the hot idle function

 

The resistance checking of the CO pot is only a guideline figure.The proper way is the one set above using exhaust gas analyser.Some need to be set rich,others lean.Every engine is different in terms of wear,running and balance.Mines set at 765 ohms and can pass a CAT test without one!!! my CO reading on my MOT week ago was 0.24% even though i dont have a cat on(1990)

[RW1 0]

removing blue temp sender puts the ecu into 'emergency mode' which is the same as maintance mode

Removing the blue temp puts into maintenance mode. Starting engine if it stalls without reconnecting the blue temp puts it into emergency mode. If started with the blue connector disconnected, then stop, reconnect it and restart the engine before again performing the procedure above.

 

.