This old chestnut. 2.0 16v 9a starting/running/fueling/& God knows what else problem.

[DriverVR6 11]

Right all, this is an SOS, to save a Corrado 2.0 16v (Jims old motor) from being broken up....

 

It's been a beeyatch since day one and took alot of starting and then alot more effort to get it through the emissions MOT.

 

It then ran okay for about 3 weeks, but now it's become very hateful.

 

After about 5 to 10 mins of driving it would start to hesitate and bog down on partial throttle. It would only run on full throttle, which is a bit inconvenient around town in 30mph zones lol. It would gradually get worse and worse until it became undriveable. Switch it off for a few hours and it would be okay, but after 5 to 10 of driving the same problem would return. Now it will not start at all. Do I need this at my time of life, NO! I knew I should have got a Civic Type R....

 

As this car was a cheap run around, I don't want to spend massive amounts of money (don't want to spend any actually) so I won't take it to a Garage for the scanning diagnostics. Also, I've always fixed my own cars so pride will not allow me to take it to anyone.

 

I've read the previous forum posts on this sort of problem and it seems to be the fuel pump(s) and lambda that gets mentioned alot....

 

The ignition system appears to be okay, but I have yet to check it thoroughly. I know that Jim spent a shed load of money on it...new distributor, leads, metering unit, injectors....

 

So any ideas on what it could be and what order should I check stuff? It's a 94 2.0 16v 9a.

 

I know about brakes, suspensions, tyres, carbs, VR6's, Fords, VTECS, etc....but these 9a engines are a mystery to me (as are women these days, What planet do some of them live on, they think money grows on trees......)

 

Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. I'm going to sit down on my lounger in the garden and chill for a bit.....

[Riley 0]

I'd suggest unplugging the lambda probe, tie the plug up out of the way and run around in it to see what effect that has. Should give an indication on whether or not that's where the fault lies.

 

Neil.

[DriverVR6 11]

Neil, thanks, I will add that to my list of things to try.

[dumptyboy 0]

Unplug the 'engine coolant sensor' located under the distributor when the problem occurs and see if it helps the situation. This sensor is known for causing similar problems to what you describe, and has been the root of the problem with my last two 2.0 16v's, once replaced(£6) it made a world of difference. Hope this helps.

[Rustynuts 0]

That would be a good plan for other sensors too, I don't know a great deal about the Ke-Jet system on your car other than VW junked it quickly as it is crap. Going onto diagnostics won't help either as I don't think VAGCOM communicates with the ecu on these cars (somebody correct me if I am wrong).

 

My honest advise would be to junk it and run ABF management, I think it can be done on a 9a engine.

[Jim 2]

Hope you get it working soon mate. I know I've said it before but it honestly gave me over 5 years trouble free motoring. I don't think the extended spell of being left / stood between me deciding to part with it and cheesy stripping some of the good bits helped sadly.

 

Good luck!

[Trev16v 0]

Going onto diagnostics won't help either as I don't think VAGCOM communicates with the ecu on these cars (somebody correct me if I am wrong).

 

 

Happily, VCDS/VAGCOM will communicate with the 9A ECU. I think it's commonly said that the 9A ECU doesn't support comms because it can be notoriously difficult to make it work, but I figured out why this was and modified my interface so that it does. (I wrote some blurb about this in the big VAGCOM thread.)

 

Using VCDS was really helpful last year when trying to diagnose some issues with our 9A Corrado. I used it to set the ignition timing and CO properly, and it also flagged up a very intermittent closed throttle switch that I might never have otherwise discovered.

 

So, if the OP wants to get the car down to me in Oxfordshire at some point, we could wang my laptop onto it. (I realise that this would mean at least getting it to start and being able to limp it over.)

Edited May 29, 2012 by Trev16v

[DriverVR6 11]

Trev16v, thanks for that info. The main problem at the moment is that I can't get it to start. However, I'm going to have a good look at it tomorrow as I didn't get to spend much time on it today. I suspect that it is the fuel pump, the one inside the tank. Any thoughts on the best way to test it if I get it out?

[dumptyboy 0]

Lift the boot carpet and you will see a cover with 3 screws, undo the cover and unclip the pipes and wires, undo the large plastic nut which seals the fuel lines into the tank and once undone the whole assembly will lift out. But the actual fuel filter is under the car near the drivers side rear wheel.

[Jim 2]

Filter was changed in the time I owned it possibly more than once. So unless something has got sucked into it, you can rule that out.

[easypops 8]

Throttle potentiometer and the wiring for it. my 2.0 16v ran like a bag of spanners, erratic idle,kangaroo petrol, hesitation, total nightmare. Changed various parts trying to solve it inc fuel pump,distributor,leads,plugs,coil,fuel thingy on top of air box(cant remember its name), fuel filter,timing belt and probably more. All things seemed to help a wee bit but it soon returned to the same, then one day i was going to swap the throttle potentiometer to see if it was that and while doing so i noticed (by total accident) that by moving the wires that were on the plug the idle steadied. Turns out 2 of the 3 wires had snapped inside the plastic sheathing,not visible by just looking. Once repaired it was a different car, possibly helped by the fact it had quite a few of the other bits changed but i think if i had found it earlier then it would have been a really easy cheap fix

 

Good luck

[DriverVR6 11]

Jim, I think that cheesy stripping bits has been the real problem as I think he did something wrong with it. He could not get it started on the day I went to buy it. I had to really tinker with it to get it started and tinker with it even more to get it through the MOT!

 

dumptyboy, thanks for the info matey. but my question was if anyone knows how to test it, getting it out is not a problem and I know how to do that.

 

easypops, once again thanks for the info, however surely the throttle position sensor/potentiometer would not prevent it from starting. I understand that if it was faulty then it would not run properly, but would it prevent it from starting???

 

---------- Post added at 1:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 1:14 PM ----------

 

Right, here's the update. Still won't start.

 

I'm getting fuel pressure okay, and fuel is getting into the combustion chambers. When I remove the spark plugs they are soaked in petrol, so something is obviously wrong.

 

I'm also getting a good spark, from coil to distributor and at each of the spark plugs.

 

As for all the rest of the stuff, Lambda, Temp Sensors, ISV, Throttle position sensor/potentiometer.....surely if any of this was faulty then it would not stop it from starting. It may run badly, but I would still expect it to start????

 

The one thing I am suspicious about is the ECU. Does anyone have one of these that I could try? Picture to follow...

 

---------- Post added at 1:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 1:21 PM ----------

Edited May 30, 2012 by DriverVR6

[Riley 0]

Mmmm.

 

On the right hand side of the head as you look from the front of the car, find the single spade terminals and take note of which colour goes to which sensor. IIRC they are all the same part number but best to take note anyway.

 

Swap them around. One of them is a sensor for the ecu which when fails DOES stop the car from starting. It may actually be a broken wire to one of the sensors, or a sensor may have failed.

 

It's a long while since my 'valver' days, I think the 9A has 2 possibly 3 spade terminal type sensors and one larger one.

 

Neil.

[DriverVR6 11]

Neil, sorry, but which one do you mean? Is it the one that I am pointing to with a screwdriver?

[Riley 0]

That looks like one of them :thumbleft: I'm just trying to rack my brain here...Mmmmm.

Probably 10 years since I used to play with valvers but I'm pretty sure there should be another one around there somewhere, in fact on the 9A it may just be a temp sender around the back of the head that I'm thinking of. Rings a bell actually.

 

What you should be able to do is disconnect the yellow wire pictured there, and touch the wire to earth. (Probably best for someone else to confirm it's the ecu sensor as I think it is first) and then try starting the car.

 

If nothing happens then at least it rules out the ecu sensor, but obviously check the wiring/terminal end also.

 

Neil.

 

---------- Post added at 1:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 1:46 PM ----------

 

In fact...It's slowly coming back to me. It's on the 1800 that a single spade terminal is used I think. So on the 2.0/9A it's possibly the two pin plug in your pic which is the ecu sensor.

 

Best for someone else to confirm really mate sorry. Though I do know that if this sensor fails that the car will not start. I had this happen on an 1800 many years ago. If the two pin plug is indeed the ecu sensor, then the way to rule it out is to unplug it and use a bit of wire to bridge the plug (Connect it through)

 

Neil.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Riley

[DriverVR6 11]

Neil, I try that, but when I disconnect that wire it just stops the temp gauge working, so I'm not sure that the one I'm pointing to is the ECU temp sensor.....The one I'm pointing to has just the single wire going to it, is that the one you mean?

 

---------- Post added at 1:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 1:56 PM ----------

 

OK Neil, thanks for your help. I'll see if anyone else can shed any light on this...

[Riley 0]

Aye sorry, I'm getting slightly confused with 1800 VS 2.0. Memory coming back though slowly, I think it's the two pin plug, see edit above. :thumbleft: If that IS confirmed as the ecu sensor then you can bridge the plug to rule out the sensor.

 

Neil.

 

EDIT: Yep! As I sort of thought! Found a pic of the 2.0 and it does indeed seem to be the two pin plug which is the ecu sensor.

 

Edited May 30, 2012 by Riley

[DriverVR6 11]

Thanks for all your help Neil. I have the one labelled as the "16v Coolant Temperature Sensor for 16v ECU #3" on mine so will try joining those wires together.

 

Once again, thanks for all your help.

[Riley 0]

No problem. Hope it helps mate. I think it was on my old Mk 16v running 45 webers that I had this issue, struggling to start and eventually failing to start. New ecu sensor (Single pin as 1800cc) and away it went again...God I miss that thing!

 

It's worth a shot to at least rule the sensor out.:thumbleft:

[davidwort 0]

So you're getting fuel and spark but it won't run :scratch:

afaik the 2l has a similar arrangement to the 1.8, having a lift pump in the tank and external fuel pump and pressure accumulator under the car, without a fuel pressure test gauge and k-jet link unions it would be impossible to check the pressure. But you could remove the fuel pump relay, jump the main pins and use the battery neg lead as a switch to turn on the power, this way you can pull the injectors and spray into bottles to check the injector spray pattern and fuel delivery, on the 16v you will get fuel into all four cylinders if the cold start injector fires but none of the injectors deliver fuel from the metering head.

Does it really not fire at all?

i doubt it is the ecu but unfortunately don't have a 9a one to try.

i also recall that unplugging the temp sensors (one on metering head too?) and the lambda would cause it to run in limp mode, or default parameters, so it may idle high but run ok, esp when warm.

If you weren't getting spark i'd say hall sender or an earth somewhere. this is a puzzler.

[DriverVR6 11]

Well bridging the wires for the coolant temp sensor did nothing.

 

David, yeah it's a strange one, as on every other car I have worked on and fixed if you get fuel and a good spark then the car should at least fire up. It may not run very well, but should still at least fire up or show signs of firing up. This thing is just spinning over! I'll check each injector to see if it is injecting fuel properly, but after that, if I can't get hold of an ECU to try, then I'll break/scrap the ruddy thing.

 

VW's used to be bullet proof, but every single one has been ruined with too many sensors, gadgets, blah blah blah and thieving stealers......I would never buy another one again. Stick to Japanese VTECS, they're faster, brake better, corner better and are more reliable. Rant over.

Edited May 30, 2012 by DriverVR6

[davidwort 0]

I do have a 9A coil and it's filter module thing (on it's bracket) you can try on saturday just to rule that out?

[dubweiser 0]

Had the same running/starting/hesitation problems a few year back and tried allsorts and it didnt fix it.In the end it was the lamda that was knackered.Got that replaced and it solved the problem straight away

[DriverVR6 11]

dubweiser, I don't think a faulty or completely knackered Lambda would stop it from starting. I would expect it to run badly, but it should still start wouldn't it??

 

David, yeah if you could bring the coil and module down on Saturday it would be appreciated.

[dubweiser 0]

It stopped mine from starting mate.Sometimes it would be fine and then the next time it wouldnt start.Sounded and felt like it was getting starved of fuel,then next minute would be ok.Then sometimes when it did start,i couldnt get the revs up above maybe 1500rpm or so,again it sounded like it was being starved of fuel.I went down the route of getting all the ignition electrics checked,got new leads,rplaced fuel filter etc and still no difference.Then i got the lambda replaced and it fixed it straight away.