Water in oil

[sam2.0 10]

Driving the car the other day, the water temp went a bit above the usual level, so pulled over and stopped the car. Topped the water up and it then ran fine for the return journey and has since. But, there is water in the oil. Its not a milky colour or anything, you can just tell its not 100% oil on the dipstick. There is no oil in the header tank.

 

Obvious answer is head gasket. Could I get away with anything else?

 

What it worth in this state, suppose someone could buy it for parts or an engine swap.

[tony_ack 0]

Could be the oil cooler, they tend to be responsible for a lot of water in oil issues.

[sam2.0 10]

Yes, I've just read up about these. I'm going to test compression tonight and take the oil heat exchanger off ASAP.

 

I suppose you can't see if its the oil heat exchanger, you just need to replace and renew oil and water and see what happens?

[davidwort 0]

HGs tend to go between cylinders or from an oil or water gallery to a cylinder, so if it's a HG failure from a water gallery to a cylinder you should see the problem on a spark plug, and before the performance starts dropping off noticeably. It's possible but more unlikely that the HG has rotted from a water to an oil gallery.

If there's just a pin hole inside the heat exchanger then it will be hard to test off the car I think, but the condition of the hose connections to the exchanger will give you a clue, if there's corrosion on the ends the inside will be bad too, I've seen exchangers with holes right through the sides of the water hose connection ends.

[tony_ack 0]

I usually do the compression test and check for other headgasket signs (steam out of the exhaust, pressurised hoses, etc.), and if everything seems okay, swap the oil cooler.

 

I've had this issue twice on different cars and 2 out of 2 times it's been the oil cooler.

 

The HG could potentially still have gone between an oil and water channel, and you'll get no other signs, but if your choice is between taking off the head or replacing the cooler, I know which one I'd rather do first. If it's the original one it's probably past it now anyway. They're really easy to change by the way, once you've dropped the oil and water.

[sam2.0 10]

Compression test tonight then. No steam from exhaust etc, runs as it did before.

 

This is a photo of mine, looks old enough, but no corrosion around the inlet/outlet.

 

Edited August 29, 2012 by sam2.0

[sam2.0 10]

I assume I'll also need to flush the engine (and coolant to be thorough). Do I use a standard 10w40, or get something different to ensure its done a good job?

[bmwcompact 10]

About 10yrs ago I had a scirocco with fuel injection. I had the same problem as you-but in my case serious oil/water contamination. The car had about 130K on the clock and I assumed it was the head gasket despite the fact that I had overhauled the head at around 120K. The problem was the oil cooler!! I was advise to change my radiator because it was difficult to flush out all the oil and have a decent cooling system. I don't know whether this was really necessary but I bought a new radiator too.

 

My 16v corrado has 136K on the clock. Reading your post has made me nervous. For the sake of £30, I think I should change the oil cooler! Carparts4less.co.uk has the best deal.

[davidwort 0]

You need to remove one of the water hoses to the exchanger and look inside the short pipe sticking out of the unit, you might see a bit of dried coolant that has leaked around the hose but you won't see corrosion from the coolant until the hose is off.

Just because a car is high mileage doesn't mean the exchanger will be corroded though, it depends on how frequently the old blue coolant (G11) was changed and/or the mix and if it's been run on the right mix of G12/G12+ etc for the last maybe 10 years, the G12(+) stuff should be better because as long as it's mixed correctly it gives better long term corrosion protection.

[sam2.0 10]

You need to remove one of the water hoses to the exchanger and look inside the short pipe sticking out of the unit, you might see a bit of dried coolant that has leaked around the hose but you won't see corrosion from the coolant until the hose is off.

Just because a car is high mileage doesn't mean the exchanger wil lbe corroded though, it depends on how frequently the old blue coolant (G11) was changed and/or the mix and if it's been run on the right mix of G12/G12+ etc for the last maybe 10 years, the G12(+) stuff should be better becasue as long as it's mixed correctly it gives better long term corrosion protection.

 

I imagine removing the coolant hose will mean coolant will leak everywhere?

[sam2.0 10]

The cars been sitting for 4 days now. No sparks are wet. Compression all seems fine (pic to follow), they are all 13bar.

 

It got up to temp and didn't move, it was only idling, but I was stuck in traffic when it overheated. It seemed fine apart from a little steam from the rad (area) when it got hot for the first time today, there was too much Coolant in the system, so I assumed it was burning off?

[sam2.0 10]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]69201[/ATTACH]

[davidwort 0]

Coolant should not overflow when running if it's at the max mark on the header tank when cold, it will only expel from the tank overflow when there is too much coolant, the cap seal is faulty, a leaking HG pressurises the coolant or it over pressurises from over heating, possibly from a stuck shut stat or a blocked or partially blocked rad.

[sam2.0 10]

When it was cold it was above the max marker, as I put loads in to drive it home.

 

I also opened the header tank when it was warm, it didn't do it itself.

[davidwort 0]

When it was cold it was above the max marker, as I put loads in to drive it home.

 

I also opened the header tank when it was warm, it didn't do it itself.

 

that's why there's a warning label on the header tank side cover :) if the system is up to temp and pressurised, even if there isn't quite the right amount of coolant, it will boil over if the car has just been running when you unscrew the cap.

[sam2.0 10]

that's why there's a warning label on the header tank side cover :) if the system is up to temp and pressurised, even if there isn't quite the right amount of coolant, it will boil over if the car has just been running when you unscrew the cap.

 

Yes, I am aware :) But as I had to drive it home, and I thought it was leaking I put a little more in. I took the cap off when it was hot, as I knew coolant would come out, now its the right level.

[tony_ack 0]

If you want to go any further with this, then I'd say your best bet now is to replace the oil cooler. You've ruled out all the other signs of HG failure and there's nothing except the water in the oil that suggests the headgasket has gone. There is still the risk that it's not the issue, but it's always best to replace the cheapest part first when you're not sure.

 

When you replace the oil, it may be worth using some really cheap 10W40, and then running it and changing it again a week later to get rid of the water contamination and flush out the system.

 

The steam from the rad is a little ominous - it could just be standing water on the fins, but probably best to make sure it's not coming from a pinhole leak in the rad.

[sam2.0 10]

If you want to go any further with this, then I'd say your best bet now is to replace the oil cooler. You've ruled out all the other signs of HG failure and there's nothing except the water in the oil that suggests the headgasket has gone. There is still the risk that it's not the issue, but it's always best to replace the cheapest part first when you're not sure.

 

When you replace the oil, it may be worth using some really cheap 10W40, and then running it and changing it again a week later to get rid of the water contamination and flush out the system.

 

The steam from the rad is a little ominous - it could just be standing water on the fins, but probably best to make sure it's not coming from a pinhole leak in the rad.

 

I was planning on draining the water and oil, swapping the oil coolers over and putting new oil and coolant in. Run it for a week and then replace the oil and coolant again. Like you say, to clean it all out.

 

The steam only happened once for 10 seconds. I turned it off immediately, spend 5 minutes checking everything and turned it back on (it was already at operating temp) and left it for a further 20 minutes without it steaming.

 

I may do loops of a local road that I can sit at a good speed then pull over and let it idle, to see if I can get it above normal temps.

 

Here are 2 images of the dipstick after the car was running for about 10 mins. (click the images to enlarge)

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]69203[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]69204[/ATTACH]

Edited August 31, 2012 by sam2.0

[sam2.0 10]

QUick update: got a few people to look at it, no water in the oil!

 

Done a coolant and thermostat change just in case it was on its was out.