first time starting issues - looking for a "final solution"

[Pete 0]

This is where I am on trying to sort this out.

 

Car won't start first time but starts fine on second try.

 

I have:

Cleaned the spark plugs

Changed the HT leads

Changed the fuel pump.

 

Noticed the following though, I put the ignition on and I can hear liquid moving around near the back of the block. After about 45 seconds the noise goes away and the car starts perfectly without any throttle feathering.

 

Plan next is to change the temp sensor and fuel pressure regulator.

 

Can anyone tell of which temp sensors to c hange (part numbers or link to eurocarparts would be ace) or if I'm barking up the wrong tree again???

 

Thanks.

[jamiehamy 0]

Hmmm

 

Noise from back of block - could this be the secondary water pump? I'm sure mine goes on with the ignition even when cold and sometimes gurgles a bit? Rear, RHS of the engine looking at it from the front.

 

Do you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the key first time? How long does it run for? Does it prime the second time, and again, how long does it run for? If it runs for a second and stops, suggests there is pressure, but def worth doing the FPR anyway.

 

When you say it doesn't start first time - is this regardless of how long you crank?

[fla 9]

replaced the fuel filter?

[Pete 0]

Hmmm

 

Noise from back of block - could this be the secondary water pump? I'm sure mine goes on with the ignition even when cold and sometimes gurgles a bit? Rear, RHS of the engine looking at it from the front.

 

Do you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the key first time? How long does it run for? Does it prime the second time, and again, how long does it run for? If it runs for a second and stops, suggests there is pressure, but def worth doing the FPR anyway.

 

When you say it doesn't start first time - is this regardless of how long you crank?

 

That's right, bit of gurgling and trickling on the rear right corner. I'll eliminate that for now then.

 

Apart from that it's silent, which makes me think the pump isn't pumping so the first attempt is drawing fuel down from the tank.

 

Car was warm just now, maybe an hour off from a 25 min drive, ignition on and total silence. Cranks for maybe a second or two then just stops. Sound crank and it starts easily.

 

Fla - not touched the filter because, if I'm honest, I don't know how to change it...

 

Should I change a/some sensors while doing the fpr and if so, which?

 

Also should I try a new fuel pump relay?

Edited September 18, 2012 by Pete

[fla 9]

check the fuel pump relay by applying 12v directly to it. Hold the power on for a few seconds withut pulsing it and check that it stays closed, although i dont really thing this is your issue.

If you can change the fpr and remove a few bolts you can easily do the fuel filter! Just need to douse the mounting bolts and clamp bolts in wd40 or something similar as they will likely be rusted senseless. i think there's a how-to in the wiki. Make sure you use new pipe clamps (stainless if possible). Dont use jubilee clips!

[Pete 0]

Ok ill have a look on the wiki. What do you think it is?

[fla 9]

not sure if i've understood your second post on cranking - when you say it cranks for a second or two, what happens after that two seconds? I assume the starter still turns but you get no firing of the engine? If so, it 'could' be a weak magnet in your crank sensor, or if the ecu relay is not closing properly (no 109) it wont give power to the injectors (and sparks (?) - not sure about this bit though)

try teh fuel filter first as its the ceapest, but test both relays 167 and 109 by applying direct power and holding the power on a few seconds. Then pulse them to make sure tehy open and close properly.

[Pete 0]

Basically the car tried to start, chugging, then it just stops doing anything despite the key still trying to start it.

 

I'll get a filter and do the filter, and maybe a new fuel pump relay a it's cheap and if they work I'll take the FPR back for refund...