Supercharging & schrick question

[sharpy-vr6 10]

Alright guys I haven't been active on here for a while now. the reason for this being I have taken my baby of the road after the radiator went and now its off the road I am going to start getting it up together and I have a few ideas for what I want done.

 

one of the main things I am planning on doing is supercharging the engine, I have seen the rotrex kit for sale from storm developments and it seems good. and any information people can give me on the kit and the way to get the best out of it would be nice??

 

but another thought I have had is about the well known and well praised schrick manifold :notworthy:

what I was wondering is can you put a supercharger on one of these manifolds?? and would it give any noteworthy performance gains over a standard manifold on a supercharger?

 

cheers for the help i really want to get this project up together and will probably be needing a little help throughout as its my first bigish project I have ever attempted

[VR6 0]

I think it's fair to say that a well-mapped supercharged AND schricked VR will be better than one without the manifold.

 

The schrick gives some more torque but very little in the way of bhp. So ok you will probably get a bit more torque but when you're knocking on for 300bhp anyway, will you really notice that bit more from the schrick?

 

However, I think you have to factor in the price. If the schrick was £200 or something it becomes a bit of a no-brainer. But when you're talking ~£600+ for a manifold, that's a fair bit of money that could go on your supercharger budget.

 

I had the same decision when my (schricked) VR was supercharged. I decided the money tied up in the manifold could be spent elsewhere like some decent brakes.

[4DUST 0]

You have picked a great supercharger with the Rotrex. One that I should have gone for in retrospect! I have recently finished a Vortech supercharger project on my car. Sadly I had to get rid of my beloved polished Schreck as the intake temperatures were just way too high particular in the summer. The design of the Schreck is just not meant for forced induction. The flap inside the Schreck also has a tendency not function properly over anything more than 6ish psi of boost as the little vacuum valve cant fight against the airflow. Instead I have a short runner and a charge cooler like the Stealth setup you may have seen pictures of. I also have water injection however found that once the engine was mapped, large green injectors fitted and cooler working properly it is not needed. I keep the water injection fitted as I have been running direct port nitrous for the last decade and like the safety margin!

If the kit you are looking at is comprehensive you should be up and running in no time. Just keep an eye on the intake temps as if they get high - which they will - the ecu will retard the timing dramatically due to knock.

Good luck with the project I am sure once you finish you will have a beast of a machine!

Edited January 5, 2013 by 4DUST

[Craig 0]

id agree with whats been said already. ive never had a schrick mani on but ive got a rotex on. i would think the money saved would be better spent on the engine/charger set up or as vr6 said, brakes. you will certainly need better brakes than the 280s!

 

Or if you want power possibly some cams instead which will give you a much gain in power i expect instead of the manifold.

 

Or if you werent planning on using a charge cooler, you could possibly source all the parts needed to get and keep your intake temps down? :)

[sharpy-vr6 10]

cheers guys this is kind of the response i was looking for and expecting. especially from you 4dust as i was thinking about the internal valves and how they would be working as im going for a 10 Psi kit and i was questioning its effect on the manifold as from my understanding it works by monitoring the air flow through internal valves to make the the vr run more like a true v6 engine, for more low down torque.

im glad to hear about the rotrex although i havent heard anything bad about the vortechs i have heard alot of people with v9s who say they are great kits??

i will probably be looking at some form of cooling but all those parts i will have to source. as i plan to build it up myself with a little help from a mech mate i have and the kit storm sells only includes charger, belt, brackets and bearings.

although from what i have read up so far a bonus with the rotrex is that it is mounted at the front of the engine so gets a fair bit of air cooling but atm its early days into my research and plans.

[KipVR 1]

How about some different cams?

[sharpy-vr6 10]

cams are a plan, but im not sure on what are best for forced induction are 263's the best??

[KipVR 1]

No idea! But I'm sure some other bods on here will pipe up soon enough 😄

[4DUST 0]

263's or 264's are great for forced induction vr's both supercharged or turbo. They are also a nice improvement on a normaly aspirated engine. Not much in it between manufacturers to be honest. For normaly aspirated 268's are good but not great on forced induction as you can loose boost and are quite harsh. Like many on the forum I have tried lots of different set ups and run both types of cam with much success. Always a good idea to plan ahead and match the cam to your planed engine set up.

 

---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

 

Also the forced induction thread could help. It shows all the positive and also annoying bits that are involved. 165 pages however worth the read very useful resource thanks to everyone's efforts.

[sharpy-vr6 10]

i will be having a long look through that thread i do need to get everything together in my head about what i want and how best to achieve it first as at the moment its early days.

all i know at the moment is ide rather supercharge then turbo just due to the delivery of power and i want something a bit easier to handle. and that i will be rebuilding the engine so im starting from a fresh i will use a 2.8 lump bored to a 2.9 for fresh walls and as close a s anew engine as possible. im fairly sure i have all my styling ideas up together (other then wheels which i change my mind on every 2 seconds) other then those ultra rare zender phase 2 turbos that where sale a while ago i would have those wheels any day over anything.

 

thank you all for your help though, its appreciated

[fla 9]

Interested in thoughts on this. Not looking for massive power just a bit more oomph but without having to uprate the engine internals. Mine is already obd2 with 264 cams

Edited June 2, 2017 by fla

[fla 9]

Or indeed a small turbo as an option?

[dr_mat 0]

I think there are plenty of options. I've heard of cars with a big throttle body and polished and ported inlets hitting 245 bhp without forced induction, for example, but to go beyond this you would need more CCs or forced induction, which starts at a couple of grand..

 

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[fla 9]

Thanks. Mines obd2 now so cant do anything with the throttle body.

I guess a small turbo will spool up quickly but run out of puff at higher revs? Would this require uprated gearbox internals?

Whats the experience of a schrick with obd2 and cams? How do the characteristics of the car change? Would a remap be of any significant benefit?

[Dox 23]

I'm not sure I've seen a N/A VR6 with a dyno proven 245BHP? But actually that BHP means nothing, you could achieve that with race cams and a map, but the idle would be awful, driving around town the car would be very flat with lots of gear changes etc. For a road car its more about driveability so mods need to be matched and aim for improvements at most RPMs with a larger area underneath the dyno graph, not just above 5K RPM.

 

I've been collecting parts for some years to build an engine / gearbox combo for enjoyable fast road use, I have a spare full block and head still on it, another head with minimal pitting around the waterways, 3L pistons, Schrick mani, lightened flywheel, 3.6 FD gearbox internals that I want inside a VR6 box, I want 268 cams. Maybes are an LSD and lightened and balanced crank. I expect around 230 BP and 200 flb of torque, but want the car to pick up and pull well from any RPM in any gear (within reason).

 

I'm surprised more don't try nitrous oxide for the amount of time we actually spend at wide open throttle?

[dr_mat 0]

I forget whose car it was, but yes it was dynoed at 245 or thereabouts. It wasn't just throttle body it also had cams and a few other bits of work.

 

I wouldn't be so sceptical, I've also seen totally unmodified engines hit 207bhp with all the standard engine smoothness and rock solid idle that entails.

 

Small turbo is a nice compromise, you can pad out the torque in the low to mid range and gain a little up top with minimal other modifications required. But it still costs you several thousand quid. If you're going to turbo it at all, you would feel like it's not worth it unless you hit 275-300 bhp, considering the costs involved.

 

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[Dox 23]

I wouldn't be so sceptical, I've also seen totally unmodified engines hit 207bhp with all the standard engine smoothness and rock solid idle that entails.

 

 

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That's exactly why I'm sceptical lol

[dr_mat 0]

Well, I've also seen standard VR6s hit a mere 185 bhp. It's not an exact science without an engine-out dyno run on a properly calibrated machine so it really depends what you consider "proven" nunbers. You can feel the difference between a good one and a bad one.

[spen 0]

Anyone know these?

 

http://www.carlicious-parts.com/epages/62028049.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62028049/Products/103

 

Photo is of stage 3