VR6 non starter.

[MoonlightVR6 10]

My VR6 has been in storage for about 5 years. It ran fine before it went into storage...

 

I got her back the other week, as I am on a tight budget I decided to service her myself.

 

I got her a new battery.

New oil & oil filter (the filter has not been changed as the housing is rounded and really tight & I cant get it off. It was serviced about 700 miles before it went into storage anyways, so the filter shouldn't be too fooked, as soon as she's running I can get her to VW - I bet they have the tool I need) but the oil has been changed.

 

New sparks & new air filter.

 

New fuel filter (the arrow points to the engine right?)

I tried draining all the fuel out before the fuel filter change but it could still have some remnants in the tank. I have since put about 15-20 worth of Vmax in her.

 

I have the coolant fluids but need to start it so I can get it closer to my work so I can flush the coolant system using a hose. I assume this shouldn't affect it starting though, and once it starts moving it slightly before changing the coolant.

 

Tried starting her and no joy, she makes a noise as if she's going to start but doesn't actually turn over. I even tried tow starting her, but as my car park is small it didn't work.

 

Any ideas as to what maybe causing the problem???

Fuel pump maybe? If I unconnected the fuel filter, put ignition on and it should pump it toward the engine right?

[Mawrick 0]

I think it will actually cut the fuel supply if it can't detect the engine speed sensor, so the fuel pump might not be to blame even if you don't get fuel.........

[seanl82 23]

Use the search, could be a number of things. First thing you need to do though is ascertain whether fuel and spark are reaching the block. That'll give you more of an idea where the problem could be.

[MoonlightVR6 10]

I have checked the sparks, they seem ok.

When I turn it over, it turns over ok, but it just doesn't kick in.

 

The engine speed sensor, when I turn it over maybe 1 in 5 times the rev counter moves, is this normal, I cant remember from when I had it before.

The rev counter moves upto maybe 1000 or just below then returns to the needle. Its not every time and only for a brief second. Could this point towards the engine speed sensor?

[seanl82 23]

The rev counter is just responding to the amount of revolutions whilst cranking, pretty sure its normal. I meant in my previous post - have you checked the spark plugs are actually sparking? Take one out at a time, you should be able to tell looking at the bottom if its wet, or by smelling it to know if fuel is entering the chamber. Next put the removed spark plug with the lead still in place on the block. Ensure the thread of the spark plug is touching metal (inlet manifold for instance) and turn the ignition. By looking through the opening at the bottom of the bonnet, you should be able to see if its actually sparking or not. Rope someone in to turn the car over if you can't do it on your own. Whatever you do, don't try to hold the plug whilst cranking lol. This will give you an idea if you are getting fuel and spark to the cylinders.

[MoonlightVR6 10]

I tested for a spark when I popped the new plugs in, it seemed ok. So hence why I thought it could be petrol. I don't know.

The old plugs smelt of petrol but they didn't look wet per-say.

 

Hmmmm?!

[robrado974 1]

Remove the fuel lines from the rail to make sure you have fuel . Top the bottom one is the return line . When you have taken off the top one , crank the engine and check for fuel. The bottom one should also have fuel in it .

Also check out robrados Rado non starter thread for plenty of ideas .

[MoonlightVR6 10]

When I changed the fuel filter there was fuel that bled out from the pipe that ran (rear drivers side wheel)to the engine. As well as some from the tank.

Was I supposed to bleed this pipe(from filter to engine)?

[robrado974 1]

No need to bleed it as the pump will push the fuel through .

[MoonlightVR6 10]

Hi guys, I had a chance to have a look at the beast today to see if I could figure out whats up with her.

 

Initially, as I thought it was a fuel issue, I disconnected the fuel line (well what I thought was the fuel line) by the air intake on the front of the engine, the rectangular bit that goes under the manifold thing. See pic 1. This was the right part to check yes?

I tried turning it over and giving it gas at the same time, no fuel came out apart from that which was in the pipe when I disconnected it (before turn over).

 

I tried the same (turn it over with fuel/gas) and checked either end of the fuel filter, no petrol came out, so I think the pipe is ok.

 

Where she's sitting its quite noisy so I couldn't tell/hear if the fuel pump activated upon turning the ignition, so I opened up the fuel tank to have a look.

 

The actual pump that sits in the housing at the bottom of the tank, felt loose in this housing (see video), it wobbled about maybe 2-3 mm, so I pulled it out of the housing and tank.

(I noticed a very small rubber O ring came off the bottom of the pump and its pretty far down in the housing, ****! I will have to make a tool to get this out, as its resting on the bottom of the housing, at least its not the bottom of the tank!!!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]76712[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]76713[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]76714[/ATTACH])

 

Is there supposed to be some sort of rubber O ring that seals the actual fuel pump in the fuel pump housing in the tank (this is around the top part of the fuel pump, it appears it seals the top of he pump into the housing, thus making it airtight), because if so this has degraded into a thick, sticky, greasy mushy substance. I assume that if this rubber o ring was to make it air-tight so the vaccuume would suck up the fuel, then this is probably my problem?

 

 

What do you think, is this top rubber o ring, or is it some sort of grease that is supposed to be there?

 

I have attached some images of the removed fuel pump, note all the black rubbery stuff.

And of the housing in the tank, you can see the black stuff on there too.

 

I checked the fuse and it looks good, I dont know how to check the relay thing but they are only about a tenner so a new one of those is nothing to get...

 

 

The cap that goes over the pump and housing in the tank, that has a rubber bit that felt like it was degrading too but this is still semi ok. it hadn't turned into a sticky mush but did feel pretty soft and sticky... Should I also replace this bit?

 

I hope that doesn't sound too confusing, I dont know how to explain it differently.

[MoonlightVR6 10]

[video=youtube_share;h0qMPOnxkpI]

 

This video should show the movement of thwe fuel pump, surely this isn;t meant to do this is it?

[MoonlightVR6 10]

Excuse my stupidity,

 

I saw a replacement fuel pump assembly on ebay for £60 odd quid.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VEMO-Fuel-Pump-Volkswagen-CORRADO-2-9-VR6-1987-1995-/360812931222?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AVW%7CModel%3ACorrado&hash=item5402206896

 

Will this part fit and work ok on my '93 VR6?

 

I just spoke to VW and the official part is £202 + vat.

Has anyone else bought this part and had any problems with it? What should I do, buy the cheap part or just fork out and get the proper VW part?

[Jon_vr6 1]

No the fuel pump shouldnt be loose like that as you probably know. As for replacement unluckily for you VW decided to drop the pump you currently have in yours (a pierburg) in favour of a VDO one. And VDO is the only one which is available from VW for the £202 BUT you have to buy a new float (blue thing on the side of the pump) as the one on yours will not fit the new pump.

 

So youve got two choices buy new from VW - and buy a new float sender unit too for another 50-60 quid

Or try and find a pierburg pump which are obsolete but may find one if your lucky

[MoonlightVR6 10]

Could I possibly get the exact same (VDO) assembly from either G&S or Allparts, but for less? Does this have a special identifying number?

 

How about this assembly,

its only £30 and it looks like it has all the parts in the one assembly.

Can that be right, for £30???

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PETROL-PUMP-ELECTRIC-3-0-BAR-WITH-FUEL-SENDER-UNIT-VW-VOLKSWAGEN-/370965049363?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AVW%7CModel%3ACorrado&hash=item565f3d7013

[Jon_vr6 1]

The above is a 3 bar pump you need a 4 bar

[Jon_vr6 1]

Think a bosch one can be picked up from euro car parts BUT you will still need a VDO sender from either VW or someone breaking a car

[MoonlightVR6 10]

Hi people,

I went to VW's authorized parts centre, I can get the pump and housing (VDO type) but the sender is now discontinued. FFS!

How can they make the pump and housing but not the sender?

 

If I buy the new style pump and pump housing, is there any way I can DIY the old (blue) sender onto the new housing, I was thinking either a couple of zip ties and or superglue?

 

Or does anyone have the new type (VDO) fuel sender they want to get rid of??????????????????????

[Mawrick 0]

Hi people,

I went to VW's authorized parts centre, I can get the pump and housing (VDO type) but the sender is now discontinued. FFS!

How can they make the pump and housing but not the sender?

 

If I buy the new style pump and pump housing, is there any way I can DIY the old (blue) sender onto the new housing, I was thinking either a couple of zip ties and or superglue?

 

Or does anyone have the new type (VDO) fuel sender they want to get rid of??????????????????????

 

Have you checked VW's classic parts ? (These are supposed to be genuin parts) - not sure what pump it is for but I found this for the Corrado:

http://shop.volkswagen-classic-parts.de/vwcp/Scirocco-Corrado/Corrado/Abgas-und-Kraftstoffanlage/Kraftstoffgeber.html

 

Maybe have a browse around :)

[MoonlightVR6 10]

so I got the new fuel pump in there. Tried starting it, turned over for a second and then the battery was dead.

 

the next day, I was trying to get my rear VW badge on and I thought I may have dropped one of the clips in the fuel tank (as I put it in, in the dark and all my other bits and bobs were just in the boot) I went to look, as I was undoing the fuel lines the one that goes to the engine ****ed out with petty as soon as I nearly undid it from the top of the fuel pump assembly, so I assume the fuel pump works fine as that 1-2 second turnover put fuel under presseue into the line.

 

I charged my battery up and went to start it today. Second go it started, ran for about 10 - 15 seconds, all beit a bit spluttery, then died.

 

Then it wouldn't start back up.

 

Any ideas people???

[MoonlightVR6 10]

I checked the lines today where they connect to the fuel rail, it looks like it was leaking a bit after trying to start it. I guess either the line and retraining clip, or the rail has perished and the pressure has burst through.

Hopefully its just the clip thing, can I replace that with a jubilee clip or does it have to be that specific part?

[Jon_vr6 1]

I replaced the ones on top of the fuel pump with jubilees so cant see it being a problem mate

[MoonlightVR6 10]

Sweet, hopefully this will be the end of it and it'll start/run!

[MoonlightVR6 10]

Apparently, although I added 3 Jerry cans of super unleaded to the tank (that had about of £5's worth of 5 year old petrol in) the little bit of old stuff contaminated the new stuff, and in turn contaminated my sparks too.

The guy I gave it to had to drain the fuel tank and replace the spark plugs, he reckoned the bad fuel had put a layer of stuff on the sparks so they were not igniting the dodgy petrol that was in the tank.

 

At least it starts now, everytime.

[Jon_vr6 1]

Good to hear