AmD vr6 re-chip

[jedi-knight83 0]

Ok a quick summary...

 

it could well be that one or more sensors are playing up with yours but best get kev check it over with VAG-COM to be on the safe side

 

I plan on doing this asap and am very apreciative to kev for the offer but would sensors make a difference to the power and if so which ones (sorry probably a dumb question .......... thats what im going to see kev for isnt it :oops: )

 

so if you do it before adding the mods you were thinking of then it won't be getting the best from them

 

thats what i was thinking... right i'll look into doing those things first then!

 

I would also make sure that the car has your usual fuel in the tank i.e. if you normally drive on Optimax then make sure Optimax is in the car when you get the re-chip done.

 

so if i get it re tuned with normal tescos petrol and then start using optimax down the line somewhere it will mess up the settings? or if i get it tuned with optimax can i never go back to using the cheap stuff??

 

thanks for all your advice though guys :D :D

[vr6storm 0]

Ok a quick summary...

 

it could well be that one or more sensors are playing up with yours but best get kev check it over with VAG-COM to be on the safe side

 

I plan on doing this asap and am very apreciative to kev for the offer but would sensors make a difference to the power and if so which ones (sorry probably a dumb question .......... thats what im going to see kev for isnt it :oops: )

 

so if you do it before adding the mods you were thinking of then it won't be getting the best from them

 

thats what i was thinking... right i'll look into doing those things first then!

 

I would also make sure that the car has your usual fuel in the tank i.e. if you normally drive on Optimax then make sure Optimax is in the car when you get the re-chip done.

 

so if i get it re tuned with normal tescos petrol and then start using optimax down the line somewhere it will mess up the settings? or if i get it tuned with optimax can i never go back to using the cheap stuff??

 

thanks for all your advice though guys :D :D[/quote:bf297]

 

 

right if the camshaft position sensor is duff......you can get a loss of power.....just ask kev :wink:

 

 

as for the petrol issue.........if you read my first post you'll see that i had mine tuned on 95RON u/l even though i use optimax week in week out.....i was advised to do this by Ess_three IIRC this was so that if i ever used 95RON it wouldn't have any detrimental effect to the running of it.......whereas if i had it set-up on Optimax then if i ever went back to using 95RON regularly it wouldn't be that great running

[jedi-knight83 0]

im learning so much tonight :lol:

 

i think i'll get it set up using normal petrol then just to be on the safe side.

 

One more question just before bed time :) what did you do to mod your air box (i read that you did it in another thread) any pics of what has been done as you said you were happy with it....

 

ta

[vr6storm 0]

well IIRC kev might have a very similar modded airbox kicking about.....its basically the snorkel-type thing removed any superflous plastic inards removed and the rest of the box smoothed with a bigger aperture

[Kevin Bacon 5]

right if the camshaft position sensor is duff......you can get a loss of power.....just ask kev :wink:

 

Indeed, 30hp to be precise!

 

Yeah the airbox can be modified by removing the Helmholtz resonator from the upper section and fitting a guttering elbow in the lower section which points down into the carbon canister hole. That's what I've done but I've put the resonator back as I'm not really keen on induction roar.

 

I wouldn't say I've freed umpteen ponies, but the engine does rev a little keener due to the cold air, and that's what it's all about, improving drivability.

 

Kev

[jedi-knight83 0]

30hp to be precise!

 

from a sensor!? maybe its that then??

[dr_mat 0]

No point in getting a chip done unless all your engine sensors are working properly. You can't make an ECU that's running blind run any better...

[jedi-knight83 0]

i'll get the car running properly, then sort out the exhaust and mod the induction box slightly... and then if i have any money left i will take it to AmD :D

 

sounds like a plan batman

[Kevin Bacon 5]

30hp to be precise!

 

from a sensor!? maybe its that then??

 

Yep, the ECU pulls ignition advance right back when the cam sensor goes. Retarding the ignition timing to that degree is going to show up on the rolling road I'm afraid. Mine delivered 170 ponies and 165lb/ft with a dead sensor......10 mins later with a new sensor, it made 200 Shetlands and 193 pounds of twisty stuff.

 

K

[Chris VR6nos 0]

Ess Three, I think you need to stop drinking so much coffee!

It's good to be passionate but chill mate, you type with such agression that you're missing keys!

 

After reading the posts I have to dissagree with the advise ess three gave about R/R-ing with 95ron, like he says, "it makes no difference" so why advise that?

Setting on 98ron means it is right, no argument, read the filler flap!

 

If there was a change to 95ron the ecu could set the timing back with the info from the knock sensors etc but if set to 95ron the setup could never make use of the 98.6ron Optimax, so i ask you, what's the point putting it on the rollers in that situation unless he were ONLY to use 95ron?(point accepted about runnung quality)

AND has he then waisted his money to some degree?

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Ess Three 0]

Ess Three, I think you need to stop drinking so much coffee!

 

Sorry, I don't drink coffee! :wink:

 

 

 

It's good to be passionate but chill mate, you type with such agression that you're missing keys!

 

Nothing to do with aggression...more to do with being on the forum whilst offshore at work, and not wanting to get caught...hence the speed typing and associated mising of the occasional letter.

 

With regard to aggression, I have a pet hate about miss-information being spread via the internet...anyone can set themselves up as an expert and offer advice that people readily follw. This information can cost people serious money...and if they don't get the expected gains? The'll be hacked off, just like I woulsd be.

 

all my poste contain my personal experience...nothing more. People can believe and accept it, or dissregars it. It's their choice. But it's measured form years worth of time and effort - not to mention money...hell, if people want to go wasting their money it has no bearing on me...but some people would rather not, and would rather use their available money to do something that actually makes a difference.

 

I have no problem in accepting differing views and experiences to those I have found...as long as they have been accurately and scientifically carried out...and not just "I heard...therefore it's true"

 

 

 

After reading the posts I have to dissagree with the advise ess three gave about R/R-ing with 95ron, like he says, "it makes no difference" so why advise that?

Setting on 98ron means it is right, no argument, read the filler flap!

 

Each to their own.

But in my opinion, getting a car mapped for 95 is ideal if thet's the lowest fuel you may have to use...if you can say absolutely that you'll never have to use anything less than 98, then get it mapped foer 98...but a car mapped for 95 will drive much better than a car mapped for 98, running on 95, and having it's timing hauled back by the ECU.

 

As for people who normally run 95 and fill their car up with 98 and octane booster (yes, they exist!) just before a RR run, just to get high numbers are fooling themselves! OK, it may make your penis appear larger in the pub in front of your sad mates, but out on the road, using the fuel you normally use...faked big numbers just don't cut it.

 

 

 

If there was a change to 95ron the ecu could set the timing back with the info from the knock sensors etc but if set to 95ron the setup could never make use of the 98.6ron Optimax, so i ask you, what's the point putting it on the rollers in that situation unless he were ONLY to use 95ron?(point accepted about runnung quality)

AND has he then waisted his money to some degree?

 

No he hasn't wasted his money at all.

 

An ECU cannot add advance...only retard it...it cannot possibly add any more advance than is already there..so if a car is re-mapped to give it as much advance as it can use on 95 octane juice...it will always run that increase in advance...this in the case of the VR6 is MORE than the ECU comes standard with regardelss of the fuel you put in.

 

If you use Optimax or similar you ensure that the timing never gets knocked back...OK...so it'll never get knocked back using 95 anyway, as long as it's decent quality 95 you are using...but you may see an increase in fuel economy with fuels such as Optimax.

Don't forget, Optimax is not primarily a performace fuel...it's a clean burn fuel designed to be cleaner...the fact that it is higher octane is a by-product, not the aim.

 

It it were the aim, we'd get the 100+ stuff available in some parts of Europe.

 

Basically, you know that with a re-mapped for 95 ECU...you have that performance all the time regardless of fuel.

 

With a 98 remapped ECU you may have better performance when using 98 fuel..but what if you absolutely cannot be assured of getting 98?

You run it on 95...and lose loads of power as the ECU pulls back the timing as the timing was re-mapped to run the maximum possible on 98 octane....not ideal.

 

The car we are referring to is not a race car...Roddy is a close friend of mine (so I definately don't want him to waste his money) and it's his road car...he doesn't do track days so he was interested in having a nicley enhanced road car for everyday road use...and living where we do, I believe the 95 re-mapped option to be ideal....same as it was for me.

 

 

You, and others may not agree...that's your prerogative.

 

 

..and I don't set out to sound aggressive...all I attepmt to do is stimulate people thinking about a particular topic in order for them to make their own informed decision.

 

At the end of the day, it would be boring if everyone had the same opinions.

[stevemac 0]

This maybe one of the points where VR6's & G60's differ.

 

On the G60, it is possible to gain the advanced timing by resetting the distributor position. Then when using "lesser" fuels the ECU can retard the timing - kind of like the best of both worlds.. :lol:

[Ess Three 0]

This maybe one of the points where VR6's & G60's differ.

 

On the G60, it is possible to gain the advanced timing by resetting the distributor position. Then when using "lesser" fuels the ECU can retard the timing - kind of like the best of both worlds.. :lol:

 

I have little experience of the G60...so i'll take your word for it.

 

But on the VR6 - assuming you have the distributor model - you can't alter the timing by swinging the distributor as far as i'm aware...the various engine position sensors ensure that the timing remaing as set in the maps contained within the ECU.

Unless someone knows of a cheeky little defeat for this?

[Chris VR6nos 0]

The last note has never been so true "At the end of the day, it would be boring if everyone had the same opinions."

 

Where do I start? I like the idea of you risking it to come & post on here! not wanting to get caught, and then writing a huge post. LOL

 

Grasp the Thistle!

 

I live in a place where there is a shell station every 5 miles or less and BP super plus in-between those and understand that some places may not be in the same position so I agree with your point of a 95 map being the better prospective option in your cases though from my point of view I'd feel cheated.

 

The VR6's ecu operates with fuzzy logic which has a learning time from an ECU reset, up until a number of minutes after when in standard form, so if it gets the 95 treatment from the point of a reset it should learn about it and set the engine the way it wants.

 

Yes, the later cars like Golf’s etc have a 512k 3D matrix map on their 28pin EPROM and have the ability to run all 6 cylinders at a different amount of degrees of advance at any one time, but so do the CDI Corrado VR6's thus far, I would have std Optimax or super 97 whichever is the most frequently used and be mapped at that because as we know and you said, "it can't advance the timing, just retard it" so my point was, why set it at 6degrees advance for 95ron so it can't advance enough to make ANY use of 98ron if it were to be used, limiting it to EVER being able to have any advantage from 98ron ever again? 98ron may have been happy at 10 degrees advance and we-hey! off it goes but by your advice you have forever limited the car to be mediocre

 

This is what forums are for, and this is a good one, i'm sure you are right and i agree with you that there is a lot of twaddle on the net but we all confer communally to keep each other right, so i always stand to be corrected however as it is my prerogative to choose my thoughts, i can say that the advise was maybe not the best IMHO.

 

 

 

 

Chris

[dr_mat 0]

Coilpack VR6 Corrados certainly have the ability to adjust timing on a per-cylinder basis. So my take on what everyone's said is - tune the car for good fuel, then allow the ECU to retard the timing if it detects detonation under load from poor fuel.

Not that I'm an expert, but I have heard both sides and think I understand.......

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Do they really? I thought sequential injection was way too flash for a VW, but now you're telling me it can alter the timing per cylinder?? This is too much, I can't take anymore....... :lol: it's just too swanky for me, gotta sell it and buy something basic :lol:

 

K

[Ess Three 0]

Where do I start? I like the idea of you risking it to come & post on here! not wanting to get caught, and then writing a huge post. LOL

 

I'm pleased I've given you a good laugh...

 

But i'm somewhat confused by your comments:

 

Risking it to come on here

 

Risking what? I've been 'coming on here' as you put it for a long time...what, prey tell, am I risking?

 

Not wanting to get caught

 

What do you mean by that? After all, I have a Corrado VR6 so I have just as much right to voice my opinions regarding them as the next man...and just as little to worry about getting caught about?

Or, in your view, does this not apply to me?

 

As for writing a huge post, all I try to do is give my reasoning in a complete, concise and honest way...does it bother you that I take the time to try and explain myself properly?

Perhaps I should use street slang or text message abbreviations?

Or would you still feel the need to attack my opinions?

 

 

 

Grasp the Thistle!

 

Sorry...I'n not following you...?

Is this some attempt to have a go at my Scottish notionality?

If so, I'm afraid it's missplaced. I'm English. I just happen to live here.

 

 

 

I live in a place where there is a shell station every 5 miles or less and BP super plus in-between those and understand that some places may not be in the same position so I agree with your point of a 95 map being the better prospective option in your cases though from my point of view I'd feel cheated.

 

That's a fair point...

However, when we headed down south to get Roddy's VR6 re-mapped Optimax was very limited in the frozen north....hence the choice made.

 

I wish I lived where new fuels were freely available...but I don't.

 

 

 

but by your advice you have forever limited the car to be mediocre

 

I wouldn't say a gain of 13BHP ish was a gain which limited the car to mediocre...not the most possible possibly (maybe have gor another BHP or two), but the advice was sound...under the circumstances.

 

 

 

This is what forums are for, and this is a good one, i'm sure you are right and i agree with you that there is a lot of twaddle on the net but we all confer communally to keep each other right, so i always stand to be corrected however as it is my prerogative to choose my thoughts, i can say that the advise was maybe not the best IMHO.

 

I appreciate you have your opinion, and I have mine...and they differ.

It's a shame that our difference in opinions seem to lead you into a personal attack on another forum menber, because my opinion doesn't match yours.

[stevemac 0]

Ess Three & Chris VR6nos

 

Please feel free to continue your "difference of opinion" via PM/email.

 

Recent posts are not really helping to answer the original question.

[Chris VR6nos 0]

**mod edit** stevemac

 

Chris - kindly read the above post

[dtjames 0]

I had my VR6 re-chip done at AMD..

 

My figures went from 190bhp to 200bhp..

 

However, I then switched to Optimax fuel and my figures at Stealth RR were my current 205bhp.

 

That, to me, seems reasonable considering everything else is standard on the car.

 

Would a Ramair filter make any difference?

[Chris VR6nos 0]

Sounds a good engine there james, good result!

 

 

 

 

Chris