Clutch problem - 8v

[Goldie 2]

So today the ultra reliable 8v has developed a problem.

 

Nothing unusual about the car, restarted my journey, selected first pulled away, unable to get 2nd, went into third then can't get 4th, no unable to select any gear when the engine is running. If the car is switched off i can select gears either via the shift of the tower on the gearbox itself. Can start the car in gear but doesn't sound quite right although not terribly bad. Clutch pedal operates normally.

 

Any clues? Is it as straight forward as saying it needs a clutch or is there something else it could be? If I'm taking the gearbox off should i be doing anything else while I'm in there? Best place for parts?

[Jim Bowen 1]

Am not sure on the mechanicals on the 8v gearbox, but i had funny issues when my clutch fork bent and nearly snapped into two. Everything worked but bite point became really low to the floor and was hard to get into gears.

[Goldie 2]

Im talking its impossible to select a gear..

 

How do you diagnose the fork problem? Is that a gearbox job off?

[Wayne2015 10]

My car same on day of purchase.

 

RAC said:

1. I was holding clutch too much during heavy traffic

- let it cool down and it was fine

 

2. Clutch was sticking (1/3 down) after changing gear

- change clutch slave cylinder still same

- so just need to replace brake fluid

 

 

Not sure if same problem, but your symtoms sounds familiar to mine that's all...

[Tigerfish 10]

Does it improve if you pump the pedal a few times and try again?

[seanl82 23]

Pretty sure its a cable operated clutch isn't it Michael? Check the arm on the gearbox is operating at full travel, and that the rubber bush and retaining plate is in good order. The older type cables can also be adjusted with a slip ring iirc, whereas the newer types are self adjusting. Worth a check too I reckon.

[Wayne2015 10]

Mine just got stuck and couldnt put into gear 1 - hazards on!

 

Clutch down whacked it in other gears,

Back to 1st nope!

Then a few times in other gears and it was fine! :)

[Goldie 2]

Its hydraulic.. I will be back with the car a little later so should know a bit more then..

[seanl82 23]

OK I'll get my coat........

 

Sorry, just assumed it was the same as the mk3 Golf 8v I had.

[Goldie 2]

OK I'll get my coat........

 

Sorry, just assumed it was the same as the mk3 Golf 8v I had.

 

don't be daft mate, all contributions are appreciated...

[lilfuzzer 1]

Hi mate what is the pressure like on the peddle?

 

If you lift the pedlle back up with your foot then try it again ity could be the slave or master cylinder. Worth a try

[Goldie 2]

More info..

 

Clutch pedal operates and feels completely normal.

 

Started car in gear and was able to select other gears (didn't move or pull out the clutch)

After that selected a gear and started the car (clutch in) and the car stalled. This to me means the clutch is now engaged regardless of what i do with the pedal..

 

So, any more ideas?

 

I feel the gearbox will be coming off and in the interest of ordering parts to avoid the 'i need the bit i haven't got' what should i be looking at ordering. Id rather play it safe and order too much and take back if not needed...

[vw rule 19]

Hello Goldie,

 

I would try and bleed the clutch slave cylinder first just before you remove the gearbox,

just to be sure.

 

There's 3 parts to the clutch unit, 1 = clutch pressure plate, 2 = clutch assembly, and 3 = release bearing.

 

(1) Old warn pressure plates can split and brake up which includes the centre springs snapping,

or can be warn down to the rivits which then give poor clutch clearence,

i.e hard to engage gears.

(2) Old warn clutch assembly these can have warped warn surfaces on the disc face,

or weak springs or rivits which makes the assembly unit flex too much causing poor clutch performance.

(3) The release bearing wears like any other bearing so may become noisy once clutch peddle is raised,

or the bearing can wear deep into the pressure springs in the back of the clutch assembly,

causing the clutch to have pressure / clearence problems.

 

Or it could be a selector fault with in the gearbox but it does sound like it's clutch related.

 

You know that strong smell you get from braking too hard or for too long,

and your brake pads really stink, well it's the same smell when your clutch is burnt out.

 

A test you can do is have your handbrake on plus engine running and select 4th or 5th gear,

then let the clutch peddle up and the engine should stall,

if the clutch is warn / burn out then the engine won't stall due to the clutch slipping.

Plus a load metallic scraping sound with the clutch peddle up could mean a warn release bearing / pressure springs.

 

Things that can be checked / replaced with the gearbox out are:

Rear main oil seal.

Flywheel surface disc and ring gear.

Gearbox diff seals.

Input shaft oil seal (this is in the bellhousing, the release bearing slides on a tube flange, the seal is behind this tube flange)

Check condition of clutch arm, as they can bend / crack as mentioned all ready.

Check small core plug it's about the size of a ten pence piece, fits in the eng block just behind flywheel top left I think.

Replace gearbox oil with new if it hasn't been done in a while.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Si

[lilfuzzer 1]

Hello Goldie,

 

I would try and bleed the clutch slave cylinder first just before you remove the gearbox,

just to be sure.

 

There's 3 parts to the clutch unit, 1 = clutch pressure plate, 2 = clutch assembly, and 3 = release bearing.

 

(1) Old warn pressure plates can split and brake up which includes the centre springs snapping,

or can be warn down to the rivits which then give poor clutch clearence,

i.e hard to engage gears.

(2) Old warn clutch assembly these can have warped warn surfaces on the disc face,

or weak springs or rivits which makes the assembly unit flex too much causing poor clutch performance.

(3) The release bearing wears like any other bearing so may become noisy once clutch peddle is raised,

or the bearing can wear deep into the pressure springs in the back of the clutch assembly,

causing the clutch to have pressure / clearence problems.

 

Or it could be a selector fault with in the gearbox but it does sound like it's clutch related.

 

You know that strong smell you get from braking too hard or for too long,

and your brake pads really stink, well it's the same smell when your clutch is burnt out.

 

A test you can do is have your handbrake on plus engine running and select 4th or 5th gear,

then let the clutch peddle up and the engine should stall,

if the clutch is warn / burn out then the engine won't stall due to the clutch slipping.

Plus a load metallic scraping sound with the clutch peddle up could mean a warn release bearing / pressure springs.

 

Things that can be checked / replaced with the gearbox out are:

Rear main oil seal.

Flywheel surface disc and ring gear.

Gearbox diff seals.

Input shaft oil seal (this is in the bellhousing, the release bearing slides on a tube flange, the seal is behind this tube flange)

Check condition of clutch arm, as they can bend / crack as mentioned all ready.

Check small core plug it's about the size of a ten pence piece, fits in the eng block just behind flywheel top left I think.

Replace gearbox oil with new if it hasn't been done in a while.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Si

Excellent advice si very comprehensive

[Goldie 2]

Great reply and details thank you..

 

Does the fact the clutch appears to be engaged now all the time highlight the clutch itself failing? When i started the car (in gear clutch down/in gear) the car stalled but not aggressively, it is like it is partially engaged...

 

And if i buy a clutch do i get the pressure plate, assembly and release bearing as a kit?

Edited April 9, 2015 by Goldie

[seanl82 23]

Release bearing is sold separately in most cases unless stated Michael. Depending how you want to go with this one (keeping genuine), LUK or Sachs release bearings can be had very cheaply - less than £15.

[Tigerfish 10]

I'd still check hydraulics first before dropping the box.

[corrado wannabe 10]

Have you checked the fluid level?

 

I would assume if there is something wrong with either the slave or master cylinder, it would be with the seals and you would have a noticeable drop in fluid. Prior to mine failing I had a small amount of oil seeping of the bottom of the bell housing before the pedal went straight to the floor.

 

But its the fact that the pedal feels normal that makes me think its not the hydraulic side of things.

 

If there had been some failure with the rod or seals on the slave cylinder in the bell housing, you would not feel the normal pressure through the pedal as it engages the clutch.

 

Good luck with it though

Edited April 9, 2015 by corrado wannabe
shocking spelling

[Goldie 2]

The fluid level is steady and pedal operates as normal both on depression and release.

 

Very much looking like it isn't a hydraulic issue.

 

Looked through the history for the car and no evidence that it has been changed and the history is comprehensive so have to believe its 165k old.