The Forced Induction VR6 thread

[herisites 0]

rob, dont bother with e-mailing NS racing, they never reply to e-mails so just do the old fashioned thing and phone them. :) you could even ask storm develpments for the pipework.

 

you also need the lower charger intake pipe mate.

 

Ok then karl i will give them a ring tomorrow, im crap on phones though which is why i usually try to email! :lol: ahh well!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Christ Kev, :( , sos to see that, its **** luck, so you think the spring caused it?? what was it set at?

You have now created a fear in me :shock: , think mine is due to be set at 12 ish??

what do you think?

 

Teething problems mate! I believe the TIAL comes with an 11psi spring. I tried a 9psi spring but it was too soft. I think 10psi would be about right but they don't do one! I'm going to look at doing a twin dump valve setup as a failsafe and get rid of the boost faster!

[herisites 0]

Christ Kev, :( , sos to see that, its **** luck, so you think the spring caused it?? what was it set at?

You have now created a fear in me :shock: , think mine is due to be set at 12 ish??

what do you think?

 

Teething problems mate! I believe the TIAL comes with an 11psi spring. I tried a 9psi spring but it was too soft. I think 10psi would be about right but they don't do one! I'm going to look at doing a twin dump valve setup as a failsafe and get rid of the boost faster!

 

Since knowing about this whole forced induction malarky and running dump valves etc i have wondered whether 2 dump valves would work, obviously for me it would be pointless at 8 psi! So would they be set up in line with each other and divert back to the same point or be placed at different areas?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Dump valves just vent to atmosphere and don't reroute anywhere, but yeah it would work. One next to the throttle for quick response and one between turbo and intercooler to vent off any remaining pressure the first one didn't dump.

 

I think the Porsche GT2 has twin dump valves!

[herisites 0]

Ahh right, i thought dump valves just released the air rather than divert it. Makes sense really dump valves dump the air out and diverter valves divert them! Im slowly taking this all in :lol:

 

That makes sense having them in those positions, what would the noise be like though with 2! Or are yours quiet unlike the chavs who just want their cars to go PSSSSSHHHTT!! when they change gear :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

At low rpms the throttle one will do most of the dumping and high and mid revs, you'll get a slight delay as the air travels back to the second valve, so it will sound staggered, kind of "Pssh- Phssssssshht" :lol:

[boost monkey 0]

Cheesewire, sorry to hear about your misfortune.

 

Is there any way to prevent this from happening again (apart from chucking the tial away!)? Would it be possible to lubricate the valve with some high-temp grease or is t just not worth the hassle?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cheesewire, sorry to hear about your misfortune.

 

Is there any way to prevent this from happening again (apart from chucking the tial away!)? Would it be possible to lubricate the valve with some high-temp grease or is t just not worth the hassle?

 

Thanks mate 8)

 

The piston rods in the TIAL valve appear to have some kind of ceramic or PTFE coating, but it was pretty stiff when I took it apart. I sprayed on some GT85 PTFE spray and it was a lot easier and smoother to slide....

 

I like the TIAL as it has a big surface area to dump excess pressure, so I might stick a supplementary one on as a failsafe!

[CrazyDave 0]

Well after seeing Kev's turbo it little bits I was a bit worried, so I had a look tonight to see if all was OK.

 

Difficult to see but I managed to get a digital camera down the back of the engine and get a picture. It's fine, looks like the anti-surge pockets around the inlet of the 3076R do the job. Although I only have 2000ish miles on my setup. I have the same Tial valve and standard spring setup, but only 8psi boost.

 

The other news is on the 1.8t air temp sensors, before you all go rushing out and fitting them to Motronic, DON'T. The ECU doesn't appear to like the rate of change of the new sensor. It reads correctly but changes so quickly the ECU thinks the wire has come loose and defaults to 75 degrees intermittantly. So unless you have a standalone it won't work correctly.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Bummer, that's a shame about the 1.8T sensor. As you say, it works perfectly with a standalone.

 

Checked my turbo and intake pipework again yesterday, looking for clues. Nothing. The turbo hasn't got any worse and still makes plenty of boost, so I'm just putting it down to some freak act of nature. I hate not knowing why things break because I'll be stressing about the forthcoming 3076 meeting the same fete :?

 

Checked the plugs and piston crowns (with a tiny medical mirror + torch) and there's no metal in there and the pistons look great actually. Zero signs of det, so I'm going to start increasing timing on part throttle and boost to reduce EGTs.

 

Unfortunately, I still have 5 and 6 showing leanness compared to 1 to 4. I think the only cure for this will be to modify a stock rail to fit the short runner so that the FPR is adjacent to cyl 6 as per stock. All 6 dry and sooty though, a good sign of minimal oil burn and slightly rich running (safer than over lean!).

 

Bill is sending me over a small loom and instructions to convert to Sequential injection, which he says really crispens up the response and smooths off nicely. He's also been raving about the DTA S80 he fitted to his car, says it's absolutely sublime.....so that could be a future mod for me :lol:

[herisites 0]

Well i rang stealth today to find out what dates im looking at getting it mapped so i know when to fit it and they dont have any space now until the 2nd week of september which is a shame as i was hoping to get it done sooner than that, mainly for edition 38 :( oh well, gives me a bit more time to save up and get more bits :D

 

I also rang Storm Developments and they seem quite excited about it which is nice to hear, they are going to get me some prices on all the air intake piping etc i need and also a price for mapping it in case they can get me in quicker than Stealth as these do know Rotrex's a bit more, so we will see!

 

What spark plugs should i run when i come to fit it? I will be giving the car a service ready for the charger so going to change plugs and change oil for some Silkolene Pro-Race 10w50.

[KADVR6 0]

here ya go Rob, opie oils are having a 15% discount weekend http://www.opieoils.co.uk/

 

or look in the suppliers forum for some more info.

 

karl

[craziscot 0]

herisites Storm Developments are well worth considering, Andy and Miles have just done the top end rebuild and fit their stage 1 Rotrex to mine. It was a great service, lots of good after care with the couple of minor issues I've had too!

[CrazyDave 0]

Well the BEGI fuel regulator is fitted and setup, and I have to say that initial reaction from a quick drive is it's really good. Standard injectors and Motronic CP ecu.

 

Very easy to set. 36psi at idle, 47psi at onset (hose clamped) and gain adjusted to give 12AFR at WOT (about 3-4 turns out with the little screw).

 

Works a treat :)

 

I need to sort the BOV now, cos the poor MAF gets very confused when your in decel and dipping the clutch to idle. Sometimes has a little idle moment. Looks like it's the air bleeding out of the BOV at high vac and causing a high MAF reading. If I drive around it by holding the gear until the engine speed is 800ish it's fine.

 

Performance feels OK..... obviously not as much timing as with Megasquirt, but pulls strong and otherwise drives very very well. A nice interim solution until funds allow a bit more playing.

 

I guess I have to eat my hat now then Kev! Begi sceptic that I was :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Good stuff Dave 8)

 

I found the Forge Twin piston 'ram' BOV worked very well for me with the BEGI and MAF. I can honestly say that setup was Stock + turbo, which is what we've bother hankered after for so long now.

 

The only reason I went standalone was because of the MAF clipping on part throttle boost.....it was intensely irritating being a daily driver, but you could drive through it by exceeding 85% throttle to kick in open loop.

In hindsight, I kind of think getting Bill to send me over an American OBD2 ECU with the C2 code wouldn't have been such a bad idea!

 

Once I've done Sequential on the DTA, there'll be no going back to Motronic again :lol:

[herisites 0]

Received my bracket, pullies and £75 traction oil today minus the belt though as they forgot to put it in which is a pain but Martin is sending one out to me straight away. The bracket is rather hefty! Looks a bit confusin but it only goes on one way so cant imagine it being too hard to work out :lol:

 

Just waiting for my injectors to turn up now which should be soon really, need to ring Storm at some point today as they are working out what piping i need for it to run the MAF upstream with diverter valve etc, as well as get a price and time they might be able to map it.

 

Spark plugs i was told that ideally i needed the Denso Iridiums? But they work out at £12 each, are there any others i need to use, just NGK platinums etc?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The VR6 doesn't need expensive plugs mate and in fact, they perform better with cheap arse plugs when forced fed 8)

 

NGK BKR7E I'd recommend, couple of quid each from sparkplugs.co.uk

[KADVR6 0]

as i have told (suggested rob) get some get some mk2 16v plugs, they will be perfectly fine mate.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Providing they're not triple of quad electrode ones.... they're no good in the VR. The Bosch "Yytrium" plugs GSF sell for the 16V work well in charged VRs, although I found the engine felt slightly less responsive with those compared to the NGKs....but that could have just been down to gapping...

[marcus 0]

Kit all in and ready to go for test drives to set all various boosts etc. :D

Rest of the bay needs a clean up though!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Excellent, you don't hang about!

 

Let us know what it's like!

[herisites 0]

I spoke to Storm yesterday about my setup, mainly to get the intake pipes etc sorted out but also had a pretty long chat about rotrex's in general, how they would run my setup, what sort of power i would get etc and im a bit worried now! Apparently they havent had a VR6 with a rotrex on run less than 310bhp :shock: thats awesome but i dont want that sort of power due to my standard high mile engine!

 

I need to find out a few things for them, first for the pipes i need to measure a few bits which i have done, they need to know whether my car has the idle valve on the throttle body elbow as that needs different pipes im guessing which apparently makes a big difference to price! So can anyone tell me whether mine has it? Its a 95 vr with the latest type ecu if that helps. I had a look at the elbow and its got a breather pipe coming off the top and something else plugs into it underneath?

 

The guy also told me that i definately dont need to run a diverter valve if running low boost as they found after thorough testing on vr6's running rotrex's that with a diverter valve it actually loses power somehow and the rotrex likes having the pressure to run more efficiently. If i was to be running 10psi or over then they would suggest a diverter valve.

 

I also need to let him know the gearing of my charger as the 300bhp+ figures that they get are from the C model charger (which is what mr_fusion had i believe) where as i have the older SP model which has different gearing making them produce slightly less power. Martin at R-Tech has sent me an 80mm pulley as he seems to think that will be ok without engine engine upgrades or additional cooling. But im thinking of just running less power than a originally wanted now as Storm said i will need atleast aquamist if running 8-10psi where as if i run more 6-7 i could get away with it and the engine should last a bit longer too.

 

Im not overly fussed about stupid power anyway as i can easily go for more power later on when i can afford to upgrade the head gasket and head/conrod bolts etc and go for silly power then but for now as im going back to uni soon and will be driving about in an old 1.3 polo getting into a supercharged vr6 is going to be awesome even if only running about 260bhp!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Your Rotrex is smaller than the ones Storm use, so won't make 310hp minimum. The engine will produce what ever power you make it produce, so their comment that no VR6 with a Rotrex makes less than 310hp is just stupid boasting and pointless.

 

You can go for whatever power you want, it's all in the pulley size, even if it means a custom made one.

 

Yep, your ISV feeds to the throttle elbow downstream of the throttle plate and the input hose for the ISV comes from the intake pipe. It's the same on all Corrado VR6s, Storm should know that!

 

Not sure about running no diverter valve, that causes compressor surge when you lift the throttle and it will still be pumping compressed air into the engine when you don't want it to, which can cause excessive popping and banging from the exhaust, but if they think it's best without, fairy nuff! I can see why they would think it would lose power, but it shouldn't if it's setup and mapped properly.

[herisites 0]

Cheers Kev, knew you wouldnt take too long to reply :lol:

 

Ok so i need the pipes with the ISV etc, so thats going to cost me more then :( ahh well. And they said they have tested the rotrex on VR6's as much as they can now and that the best results were running them without a diverter valve (for stage 1 anyway) and aquamist but thats only really needed at higher boost.

 

Yeah i knew mine was smaller and less powerful so i reckon it should be ok. They said they havent really done any SP's yet only the C's which are more powerful so hopefully mine will be pretty tame with the 80mm pulley. But then if it starts boosting too high then i will just change it for a 90mm pulley and run it a bit slower, i dont want to risk it yet!

 

I could save some more money though if i decide to go for less power as he said that they just change the fuel regulator to a bigger one and then it can run standard injectors and doesnt require mapping so i could save a fortune and just put up with a bit less power. Im going to give them a ring later on though and discuss my options. At the minute i need cheapest way possible i reckon as i have underestimated my money allowance and uni is cropping up very closely now!

[herisites 0]

Oh and what size is the throttle body on the vr? Is it a definate 80mm or is it 76mm?