Definitive 24v into a (VR) Corrado thread

[dukest 0]

just for info, in a moment of idle curiosity today, I rang up Vege about recon 24v engines and they said they've never done a 2.8 24v so couldn't give me a price which was a shame.. :(

 

however also rang vince about price to install a 24v and he said it was pretty much no difference between 2.8 and 3.2, mk4 or mk5 engines, all had their pro's and con's which meant that he would generally charge around £2300+vat for install and set up of any of them if you bring the engine and any bits needed. just thought that might be interesting to peeps here.. :salute:

[KipVR 1]

That seems a fair price TBH. No matter how reccomended someone is though, they'll NEVER take as much care as you want them to, simply because it costs them money. You're better off spending a thousand pounds borrowing a garage or workshop and doing/understanding it yourself.

[dukest 0]

very good point yes..

[_leon_ 0]

john are you considering 24v?

[dukest 0]

yes, one day! if i have a job and not destitute on the street ;) not this year i shouldn't think though, still try to break up my corrado spending into small enough pieces that i can pretend they were normal maintenance, ahem......

[John-M 0]

£2.3k plus vat for Vince to install and setup ? Seems damn good value to me - he has such a good reputation :)

[coullstar 0]

Right guys Im hopefully replacing the alternator this weekend and will replace the serpentine belt while Im at it. Im away from the car at the moment and I was just wondering about if the belt is the same for the 4motion with or without AC as my car doesnt have it?

 

Edit - ok Ive found a 1264 belt, 6 groove. Is that what other guys have used?

[KADVR6 0]

if anybody is thinking 24v, then look in the for sale section as i have something for sale that may intrest you :)

 

heres a link until the thread on here gets approved http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.p ... pic=221204

[pete_griff 0]

if anybody is thinking 24v, then look in the for sale section as i have something for sale that may intrest you :)

 

heres a link until the thread on here gets approved http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.p ... pic=221204

 

what???!!!???? :shock:

 

come on then Karl - what have you got up your sleeve?!! :lol: :cuckoo: :D

[mic_VR 3]

OK guys quick question, what have those that have actually done the conversion told the DVLA? i.e. new engine codes and displacement etc for the V5 docs. And also what have you told the insurance people and has it had any effect on your premiums?

 

Cheers

 

Mic

[coullstar 0]

Thats a good question. Never thought about it, I have done nothing as of yet with regards to the DVLA.

 

Insurance wasnt really much of an issue, didnt really change that much. You just have to make sure you will get current value for such a car.

[_leon_ 0]

Still curious about the 24v conversion. I've read through this topic cover to cover and still have a load of questions I either couldn't find an answer to or weren't concluded. I've got a list of questions below, sorry if I'm asking what may have already been covered - but the below should cover most of the questions others have surrounding the conversion too. Hope people can help! Note its aimed mostly towards the 3.2 conversion rather than the 2.8. In no particular order...

 

* Any caveats or difficulties with running oem management? I believe the Mk5 R32 is more problematic - don't know the details, but knowing roughly what they are and who has overcome them to date would be great.

 

* Location of washer, PAS and header tanks; rather than leaving them mounted as per 12v locations - is getting appropriate pipework sorted a nightmare to have them moved to the R32 bay locations (i.e. header and washer at the belt side of the engine and the R32 airbox, PAS and battery on the gearbox side. Would be more oem and neater IMO. Brackets I'm sure wouldn't be troublesome given they can be nicked off a Golf or made up.

 

* Do filters such as the BMC bring the same improvements on the R32 as the 12v?

 

* What are the complications with keeping the aircon on the 24v? I wanted to fit aircon this summer but the later system would be much better if possible. Has anyone done this - Jay Renshaw? The pump iirc fouls the slam panel - but I imagine the interior side of things would be a major headache.

 

* What serpentine belt is needed if not running aircon?

 

* When using a Mk5 the tensioner bracket needs to be changed so the 12v pas pump can be used - what about the Mk4?

 

* Why does the Mk5 R32 need a different FPR? And the Mk4 doesn't?

 

* When sorting out an exhaust manifold - what alternatives are there to using Dubpowers manifold? It is pretty expensive. Simply a custom made one?

 

* The lambda probes - is there a conclusive answer as to what you can use when using the oem management on both Mk4 and 5 engines? 1, 2 or 4? Any advice to clear this up would be magic!

 

* Does the VR 02A bellhousing perfectly marry up to the R32 engine? No gaps etc into the flywheel chamber?

 

* Fitment on the VR mounts - the mod to the front mount bracket is not needed when using a mocal cooler - but how does the engine sit in the bay otherwise? Low sump (a big concern)? Too high for the bonnet (with the original R32 inlet)? Are certain mounts better to offset the position? Noted the radiator fans should be changed for slimline items.

 

* What are the necessary arrangements for the water pipes? And the 12v thermostat housing can be used? Any mods to the pipes needed?

 

* What work is needed for fitting the DBW throttle? What throttle body is used?

 

* What is needed to run the existing Corrado clocks? And the inverse of that - what is needed to run the 24v clocks?

 

* What MFA readings are lost with the conversion? Understood the oil temp and mpg is lost? And there are some problems with the RPM reading?

 

* What is needed to get the R32 running close to 300bhp? Mapping alone - or throttle body, cams etc?

 

* Is using VAG-COM at all affected?

 

* And seconded the question about the DVLA!

 

Thanks a lot for the advice - hope this is useful! Happy to formulate the answers/info into some sort of conclusive document/wiki page.

[KipVR 1]

Still curious about the 24v conversion. I've read through this topic cover to cover and still have a load of questions I either couldn't find an answer to or weren't concluded. I've got a list of questions below, sorry if I'm asking what may have already been covered - but the below should cover most of the questions others have surrounding the conversion too. Hope people can help! Note its aimed mostly towards the 3.2 conversion rather than the 2.8. In no particular order...

 

* Any caveats or difficulties with running oem management? I believe the Mk5 R32 is more problematic - don't know the details, but knowing roughly what they are and who has overcome them to date would be great.

Not much difference between them really. You have to fit an FPR with the Mk5 engine, and the immobilizer is a little more difficult to defeat, but I believe VAG doctor now knows how to get round this, he's done it on Pete's car.

 

* Location of washer, PAS and header tanks; rather than leaving them mounted as per 12v locations - is getting appropriate pipework sorted a nightmare to have them moved to the R32 bay locations (i.e. header and washer at the belt side of the engine and the R32 airbox, PAS and battery on the gearbox side. Would be more oem and neater IMO. Brackets I'm sure wouldn't be troublesome given they can be nicked off a Golf or made up.

 

 

It's really up to you how far you want to go, it takes a little more effort to move all the stuff around the engine bay but in my opinion it is worth it. You can do 90% of it using OE bracketry and a mixture of VAG bits, I'm compiling a list as I go along but none of it is difficult to source. See Dirty Sanchez's Corrado- he has done a full R32 swap with all the bits in the same place as the donor.

 

* Do filters such as the BMC bring the same improvements on the R32 as the 12v? About the same amount I should think and they are louder, a good cold air feed is more important, if you use the R32/Audi box you can then duct the air into the box from behind the pasenger headlight.

 

* What are the complications with keeping the aircon on the 24v? I wanted to fit aircon this summer but the later system would be much better if possible. Has anyone done this - Jay Renshaw? The pump iirc fouls the slam panel - but I imagine the interior side of things would be a major headache.

You would still have to use all the Corrado bits, just using the 24V compressor.

 

* What serpentine belt is needed if not running aircon? I can get you the part No. but don't have it here.

 

* When using a Mk5 the tensioner bracket needs to be changed so the 12v pas pump can be used - what about the Mk4? I didn't on mine.

 

* Why does the Mk5 R32 need a different FPR? And the Mk4 doesn't? The Mk4 has a return line.

 

* When sorting out an exhaust manifold - what alternatives are there to using Dubpowers manifold? It is pretty expensive. Simply a custom made one? Yes, you can cannibalise a Mk4/Audi TT downpipe for the Cats, ld bosses and flexis etc, just make sure you mount the flexis in the vertical position and not horizontal (compression rather than shear)- or they will break after a period of time.

 

* The lambda probes - is there a conclusive answer as to what you can use when using the oem management on both Mk4 and 5 engines? 1, 2 or 4? Any advice to clear this up would be magic! Use all of them, the second set monitor the CAT's. Keep the banks seperate for the widebands as the adjustments are made side to side.

 

* Does the VR 02A bellhousing perfectly marry up to the R32 engine? No gaps etc into the flywheel chamber? Fits fine

 

* Fitment on the VR mounts - the mod to the front mount bracket is not needed when using a mocal cooler - but how does the engine sit in the bay otherwise? Low sump (a big concern)? Too high for the bonnet (with the original R32 inlet)? Are certain mounts better to offset the position? Noted the radiator fans should be changed for slimline items. If you get a 3.2 with the TB that sticks up then you may have problems, otherwise you just swap over the rear mouting bracket and job done. I have put one 11" fan in front of my RAD, but you can ask CrazyDave to supply you with a Laser cut fan bracket that will be for two fans mounted behind the rad which is all very neat.- as per Pete's car

 

* What are the necessary arrangements for the water pipes? And the 12v thermostat housing can be used? Any mods to the pipes needed? Junk all the 24V stuff and use all the 12V stuff (approximately)

 

* What work is needed for fitting the DBW throttle? What throttle body is used? Use the TB that comes with the engine, prettey sure you can use the Mk5 organ style pedal that just bolts to the floor, the hanging type just gets in the way of the fusebox.

 

* What is needed to run the existing Corrado clocks? And the inverse of that - what is needed to run the 24v clocks? Nothing, use pin 38 from the 24V ecu to get your analogue REV count. The only thing you won't have working is the MPG.

 

* What MFA readings are lost with the conversion? Understood the oil temp and mpg is lost? And there are some problems with the RPM reading? Oil temp is only lost if you don't stick an extra sensor in.

 

* What is needed to get the R32 running close to 300bhp? Mapping alone - or throttle body, cams etc? Cams and remap you'll see about 290 bhp

 

* Is using VAG-COM at all affected? Probably!!

 

* And seconded the question about the DVLA!

 

Thanks a lot for the advice - hope this is useful! Happy to formulate the answers/info into some sort of conclusive document/wiki page.

 

Personally i have gone for an Audi engine, as they are made up to quite late (2005) without the need for an FPR and they are quite common- and in my personal opinion less likely to have been ragged!! Hope all this helps :D

[herisites 0]

Thanks for answering all that Kip, I was still unsure about some of them!

[yeti 0]

OK guys quick question, what have those that have actually done the conversion told the DVLA? i.e. new engine codes and displacement etc for the V5 docs. And also what have you told the insurance people and has it had any effect on your premiums?

 

Cheers

 

Mic

 

i've been told by friends who've done this before you need to inform them of the engine number and displacement and thats about it for the dvla

 

as for insurance, as long as you have uprated the rest of the car to cope with the extra power then it shouldnt be a problem, i've done a test with hic and they reckon it'll go down by £100 when i reinsure it as i haveantoehr year ncb and a year older - they basically said they insure it as an r32... so maybe i should say audi 3.2, might be cheaper :-)

[_leon_ 0]

Kip - thanks a lot :) Good info and a lot of help :) Some follow ups :)

 

* Vince should be able to do the Mk5 immobiliser defeat too as he's done at least one Mk5 conversion now.

 

* Reg DirtySanchez's install - agreed thats the route I'd go down. The PAS can be done as you have (and guessing thats what he has also done) with the seat bracket, but the header tank and washer need a bracket or whatever that I'm guessing could be nicked off a golf. Just the pumbing to the header tank which wouldn't prove too much hassle - could always use connectors until its properly sorted.

 

* So OEM airbox with a cold feed - the above arrangement would allow room for that as the washer bottle is relocated - just need to get around the battery or create a feed through the chassis as per the carbon cannister side.

 

* Does the 24v compressor not foul the slam panel? I thought it wasn't possible to fit without some trickery. Probably need to get more info regarding fitting the climatronic control system as the dash controls and wiring is quite different from what I can gather.

 

* Belt - perfect thanks!

 

* Does the Dubpowers manifold offer a great deal in the way of gains - or is six and half a dozen... Presumably the 6branch may offer more clearance - not sure if this needs to be considered for the brake fluid reservoir and master cylinder?

 

* Which 3.2 has the incorrect TB? I've got those fan brackets from CrazyDave and an 11" and 9" set of fans - sorted!

 

* Do any of the water pipes from the 12v need cut? Guessing by what youve said its very straightforward once offered up.

 

* MPG isn't important tbh, oil temp - can get a gauge easily for that then. Where does the sensor go?

 

* Where would the sensor be located to get an oil pressure reading (for the oem pressure/voltage gauge) if you went down the route of simply fitting a mocal cooler - as Rob and Pete are/have done?

 

* Any info on which cams to put in?

 

* I'll find out about VAG-COM from Vince or VAGdoctor etc and post up here

 

* Are the VW and Audi engines different at all? I thought I caught a post saying there were several differences...

 

Kip once again thanks a million - this will answer the questions I've had for months regarding this conversion :D

Again happy to try and put together an FAQ for the wiki if useful to others?

[swiftkid 1]

well i've got an audi engine to chuck in but from what i have found is the air flow meter and map on the ecu is different so the audi engines have around 15-20bhp more than the r32. i will find out soon enough if anything else is different because i have R32 loom from ecu to clocks and audi TT ecu to engine loom :?

 

Also found out A3 lambda's are different to Audi TT :(

 

Ill be attempting a proper DIY noob guide to the engine conversion to put on Wicki when/if i get it done :lol:

[_leon_ 0]

would be interesting to know the differences - would prefer vw over audi prices for parts!

[dukest 0]

haha, how dead set were you on the 12v a month ago leon? :grin:

 

glad that you are asking all these interesting questions from a position of knowledge though, makes me slightly more comfortable about not having to hand it over to someone to to all of (assuming i was giving it any thought that is..!).

 

from what i discovered, cams for 24v engines are hideously expensive and not really necessary judging by the grins on peoples faces getting out of Pete's car on saturday!

 

John

[_leon_ 0]

just good to know the true and full story behind one of the conversions - too many questions/unknowns surrounding it for me. and simply put, interesting/helpful to know!

[KipVR 1]

Kip - thanks a lot :) Good info and a lot of help :) Some follow ups :)

 

* Vince should be able to do the Mk5 immobiliser defeat too as he's done at least one Mk5 conversion now.

 

* Reg DirtySanchez's install - agreed thats the route I'd go down. The PAS can be done as you have (and guessing thats what he has also done) with the seat bracket, but the header tank and washer need a bracket or whatever that I'm guessing could be nicked off a golf. Just the pumbing to the header tank which wouldn't prove too much hassle - could always use connectors until its properly sorted. Yeah I've decided to use a Mk2 Washer bottle that sits along where the current VR6 airbox, and you can buy the mounting brackets for it from VW, and I'm leaving the header where it is. So i'm somewhere between the two.

 

* So OEM airbox with a cold feed - the above arrangement would allow room for that as the washer bottle is relocated - just need to get around the battery or create a feed through the chassis as per the carbon cannister side. Yeah there is a small amount of room by the inner wing past the battery, although I may end up going through the inner wing as they do on some Mk2 Golfs.

 

* Does the 24v compressor not foul the slam panel? I thought it wasn't possible to fit without some trickery. Probably need to get more info regarding fitting the climatronic control system as the dash controls and wiring is quite different from what I can gather. Yeah Air con is an ass to fit, I haven't looked into it too hard though to be honest.

 

* Belt - perfect thanks!

 

* Does the Dubpowers manifold offer a great deal in the way of gains - or is six and half a dozen... Presumably the 6branch may offer more clearance - not sure if this needs to be considered for the brake fluid reservoir and master cylinder? No not much gain as per the VR, looks nice though :D I've got plenty of clearance around the Brake servo etc with my cast TT manifolds on.

 

* Which 3.2 has the incorrect TB? I've got those fan brackets from CrazyDave and an 11" and 9" set of fans - sorted! See the pic on page 1 of my thread (in sig), the TB should look the same as that, the other sort (earlier ones i think) stick up above the manifold a lot more

 

* Do any of the water pipes from the 12v need cut? Guessing by what youve said its very straightforward once offered up. No cutting required!! :D

* MPG isn't important tbh, oil temp - can get a gauge easily for that then. Where does the sensor go? You can put the sensor in a fitting inline if you are using an oil cooler, I'm not using one (yet!) just drilling and tapping the filter head...

 

* Where would the sensor be located to get an oil pressure reading (for the oem pressure/voltage gauge) if you went down the route of simply fitting a mocal cooler - as Rob and Pete are/have done? As above

 

* Any info on which cams to put in? I think schrick, but you can ask on R32OC

 

* I'll find out about VAG-COM from Vince or VAGdoctor etc and post up here

 

* Are the VW and Audi engines different at all? I thought I caught a post saying there were several differences...Yes I've read that too, they are a bit more powerful on a standard map, I've never compared both side by side, but PhatVR6 has done and has noticed a few small differences.

 

Kip once again thanks a million - this will answer the questions I've had for months regarding this conversion :D No worries chap, glad to help out.

Again happy to try and put together an FAQ for the wiki if useful to others?Good idea mate :D

[_leon_ 0]

Kip you're a gent - thanks a lot. I'll find out a little more then post up here - looks pretty conclusive now.

 

Going through the inner wing for the air feed seems a sensible idea - you can always get it done easily while theres nothing in the bay.

 

When you say an oil pressure and temp sensor inline - do you mean on a join at the start of the pipework?

 

Will write back regarding vag-com and cams... :)

[yeti 0]

if your looking into to r32 tuning, i.e. cams filters etc log on to r32oc.com (or .co.uk cant remember) what what i've read the performance cams seem to be double the cost of the 12v ones and that was before the credit crunch so the exchange rate with europe and the states is worse so everythings got more expensive :(

 

Although speaking to someone recently whos mate had cams remap and alsorts of bits and pieces (spent many many thousands tuning the engine) he ended up with 310ish but it sounded like a proper mental race car 8)

[KipVR 1]

Kip you're a gent - thanks a lot. I'll find out a little more then post up here - looks pretty conclusive now.

 

Going through the inner wing for the air feed seems a sensible idea - you can always get it done easily while theres nothing in the bay.

 

When you say an oil pressure and temp sensor inline - do you mean on a join at the start of the pipework? Yes chap, use a T piece. :)

 

Will write back regarding vag-com and cams... :)

[KipVR 1]

if your looking into to r32 tuning, i.e. cams filters etc log on to r32oc.com (or .co.uk cant remember) what what i've read the performance cams seem to be double the cost of the 12v ones and that was before the credit crunch so the exchange rate with europe and the states is worse so everythings got more expensive :(

 

Although speaking to someone recently whos mate had cams remap and alsorts of bits and pieces (spent many many thousands tuning the engine) he ended up with 310ish but it sounded like a proper mental race car 8)

 

Yeah tuned R32's sound very nice 8) , and yeah I wouldn't be suprised at just how expensive 24v cams are!!