Steering rack issues solutions and swaps....

[24V Renshaw 0]

I know a lot of people are having problems with their steering at the moment, either "clunking" sticking or just being weird.

So I thought I would start a thread dedicated to the problem and possible solutions specifically focused on the steering racks which seem to be a problem for a lot of people me and Kev Haywire included.

 

Jay

[24V Renshaw 0]

I have a strange clicking/sticking in my rack at the moment, which was supposed to be a rebuilt unit. So I have second hand one coming in the post (cheers Striderwilson) which had the same problem... I am going to strip it down and investigate so will post piccies up of anything I find.

I have potentially sourced a rebuild kit so if the rack is salvageable I will obviously rebuild it and post piccies of that process too.

 

One option is this. The only difference I can remember between the G60/16v and VR rack is the no of splines on the input shaft So is there any reason that if the UJ to the column was swapped for a G60/16v one too a G60/16v rack could not be used in a VR??

 

Jay

[kvwloon 0]

Can I just jump in and say - CHECK THE PIPES ON YOUR RACK FOR CORROSION!

After my recent experiences of corroded to buggery pipes (on the rack itself) which resulted in me losing all the fluid very quickly, I would highly recommend Waxoyl coating them.

[steve_16v 0]

Are brand new racks not available anymore? Mine has quite a few issues but I'd rather put a new rack on than a recon unit, unless it's ridiculously expensive (got quoted about £180 to exchange it for a recon unit).

[24V Renshaw 0]

New ones are very pricey from memory and I think most are now recon anyway. Kevhaywire will tell you how many "new" and "re-con" racks he has gone through trying to sort the problems with them.

 

I will keep you all posted with progress.

 

Jay

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Jay, the VR pump and rack are ZF (as you know) and I've been told you shouldn't mix them up, i.e. don't use a G60/16V rack with a ZF pump! Although I've never tried it so I don't know what would happen.

 

Any more developments on the MK4 rack? Word from another source says it looks viable with some minor changes to the subframe.

 

Steve_16v, only from 'new old stock' resellers on ebay and the like. Racks from VW will be exchange (denoted by an X suffix on the p/n) and therefore rebuilt.

 

I had a 'new old' rack fitted to mine last year and it's goosed already, a genuine VAG ZF one, never fitted to a car.

 

With mine, if I back off the drive or out of my work space, at about 1/2 lock I get a thud through the floor. Only does it that one time in the mornings and is silent from then on.....but the rack is loose and sloppy the rest of the journey with no real feeling off centre.

 

Vince made up a special tool to tighten up the 22mm preload screw without having to drop the rack and that made a massive difference. He only nipped it up an 1/8th of a turn and that cured the clonk and the steering was just stunning there after. Rock solid and almost telepathic turn-in. I adored the way it drove. That jubilation lasted all of a fortnight and I'm back to square one again. What is it with feckin VWs and fixes only be temporary?

 

I have another rack off a low mileage 95 C (cheers Mike Edwards) but this time I'll borrow Vince's tool and keep nipping up the preload until the point where the self centering goes and it if it *still* does it. Rack is fecked and on goes the replacement.

 

The steering and rear axle are the only things that let the C down handling wise.....

[24V Renshaw 0]

I have heard conflicting reports about the MK4 rack. I thought it was too long and too tall, but then I have heard people say it might work... I need to get hold of one to see I guess.

I will get a MK4 rack when I get this spare VR rack and see how they compare...

 

Jay

[_leon_ 0]

a new g60 rack from VAG costs £700.48 exc VAT... Hence why I'm getting a £159 recon rack from ECP!

[24V Renshaw 0]

Hence why I am going to rebuild it myself or figure out a way of fitting a MK4 one! :)

 

Jay

[steve_16v 0]

a new g60 rack from VAG costs £700.48 exc VAT... Hence why I'm getting a £159 recon rack from ECP!

 

:shock: Whoa! The stealers have outdone themselves there ... that's £823.06 inc. vat!!!

 

 

Definately going to be a recon rack.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

That is plain nuts! There should be laws against prices like that for cars over 10 years old.

[_leon_ 0]

I couldn't agree more tbh. I don't know how such a price can be justified...

[dr_mat 0]

I find it hard to believe that it's possible for lots of steering racks to be faulty, one after the other.

I am beginning to wonder if many of the clunks/thumps and much of the vagueness on these old cars is not subframe movement or some fundamental structural weakness. The number of replacement parts that have been fitted and *haven't* fixed the problem isn't true..

Also I note that many many people say "it was better for two weeks" after it being in the garage. I noticed that too, and in fact I could simulate that effect just by jacking the front end up for half an hour..

Mine's not 100% either. But I got rid of the play in the steering by replacing the column. The rack replacement made no difference.

[24V Renshaw 0]

I see where you are coming from but everything in my car is absolutely brand new apart from the steering rack which was "rebuilt". The column had absolutely no play in it what so ever, so I can't see how it could be that.

 

The thing with mine is both times its "gone weird" it has killed the pump too after a while as its been having to work so hard overcoming the "sticking" in the rack. I think mine might be a bite more exaggerated than other people are describing but mine is "definatley" the rack and I "will" sort out the problem once and for all!

 

Jay

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yes but winding in the rack preload screw got rid of the clonk on mine? So how can it be anything but the rack? My subframe is well torqued up and seam welded, so it's certainly not that shifting, although that is one theory I've heard Vince suggest in the past.

 

And 2 weeks of 50 miles a day + the 380 mile round trip for it go bad again, not jacking a wheel up for half an hour..... fool! :-)

 

It's not unusual that so many racks are this way. Vince certainly isn't surprised by it and *loads* of people I've spoken to with Rados speak of similar problems....and MK2 Golfs incidentally....it's a VW thing from that era.

 

Your column was fecked and not really related to steering racks clonking. I've sorted my column also and it's much better, but that clonk is still there!

 

There's a relationship with my rack 'settling' over night and thudding through protest when moved again in the morning. It's exactly the same pitch and volume every time. If it were a BJ or top mount etc, I'd expect the noise to worsen as they wore out more?

[24V Renshaw 0]

What did you do to your column out of interest Kev?

 

jay

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Shimmed the hinge with stainless washers. The ones used for setting up Schrick VGI flap clearancing are perfect, but Vince should have some.

 

Sod £557 for a new column ;-)

[Geo 0]

Just adding my 2p to the debate....

 

I fitted a steering rack out of a 02 Seat Cordoba to a mate's 16V corrado during the summer. The racks are almost identical externally and have the same ratio (going by number of turns lock to lock)

 

He had his old rack reconditioned 3 times (by 2 different companies) before that and it leaked within days each time. I think it lasted a week or so one of the times.

 

His old rack had 36 splines on the input shaft and the Seat one had 22 so I had to swap the lower UJ to a 22 spline one. But the Cordoba one is a different setup so I couldn't use that one but I found a suitable one in a 96 Toledo. The difference is where the UJ connects to the steering column, in the corrado it connects inside the car via another splined shaft but on the Cordoba the shaft splits in 2 with a pair of bolts.

 

Anyway the car has been fine since (as it should with a relatively new rack)

 

And best of all was that the secondhand rack and 22 spline Universal joint cost less than half of the cost of reconditioning his own.

 

Seems to me to be the best way out of the problem. I don't think that reconditioning old steering racks is a very good idea, I'll certainly never get one done again after Steve's experience during the summer and what Jay has said about his recently recon'd rack giving trouble has confirmed that it's not really worthwhile to me.

[Supercharged 2]

I've got an ECP recon in my TDi and it feels ok (I say ok as there is a slight amount of play but I'm fairly sure that is my 200k old column)

 

There is some interesting reading in the Bentley manual about racks and setting up using the preload adjustment... maybe they are just getting old and need adjusting/setting up properly...

[_leon_ 0]

i haven't gone ahead with my purchase of a reconditioned rack yet - these threads keep making me hesitant. Supercharged - how long have you had it fitted? And apologies up front - was it yourself that wrote up briefly about fitting it while the car was on axle stands? Thats what I'll be doing shortly - any info/pointers would be superb mate :)

[dr_mat 0]

Perhaps it's time to say "screw this" and go buy a car where things actually work .. ?

It keeps crossing my mind..

Partly cos:

1) high speed handling issues (maybe steering still, maybe suspension, maybe tyres - most of it's new!)

2) brakes keep sticking! despite new disks/pads/calipers all round and numerous cleaning/greasing attempts they STILL STICK.

3) clunks

4) rattles

5) every part you buy costs the earth

6) every part you buy is fecked and needs re-fixing straight afterwards

 

I think I've kept the faith a long time, in the face of stupendous opposition .. but there's very little faith left, I can tell you! :(

[dr_mat 0]

Anyway, moving on.

Let me tell you what I think is wrong with the steering/handling on my VR. See if it matches what you lot think about yours.

Variability is the problem. Sometimes it feels tight, planted, confident. Sometimes it feels vague, torque steers like a loon, going round high speed bends feels like cornering-by-averages, it feels like the front end of the car is on tip-toes. Hard to describe...

And then there's the occasional clunks..

 

You know what? If it weren't "impossible" (unlikely at least), I'd say the subframe was moving. This would explain all these symptoms; if it moves forwards, this will reduce the amount of castor angle - increasing torque steer and giving less stability at speed. It would also explain the (heavy) clunk..

 

Of course, there's other things could cause similar changes in the suspension geometry - bottom ball joints (replaced), wishbones/bushes (replaced), track rod ends could shift the tracking out (replaced - several times), even top mount movement could do it, but they've been replaced too ...

 

So. Having ruled out the impossible, does anyone know *exactly* how the subframe attaches to the chassis?

[VEEDUBBED 0]

Well i had a spare 15000mile VR6 ZF steering rack sitting around and gathering dust so i fitted the rack to my G60 in place of the O/E TRW version that had two split gaitors,the rack itself bolts up fine to the sub-frame,you first have to change the inner steering arms before though,Vw say in their workshop manual that the TRW arms should'nt be interchanged with the ZF versions, and vice-versa,well i've done it and also done ~8000km with no problems,just remember to put thread lock on the steering arms before swapping over,the 1 thing i did notice was that,if,like me,your using 205/50/15 series tyres the fronts under full lock will very slightly rub on the inner front wings near the struts,don't worry though it's only very slight,nothing to worry about.

You will HAVE to use the ZF's power steering pump aswell,the steering WILL work using the G60's pump but when parking the car you will not be able to move the steering wheel fast to the left or right otherwise the steering gets heavy and will kick back due to the G60's lower pressure PSP, the VR's higher output pump(3/4bar more pressure than G60's) obviosly overcomes this.

You will also have to use the VR's high pressure pipeing due to the fact that the VR uses a Banjo bolt that bolts onto the PSP,the G60 has a threaded pipe(pressure line).

[Guest]

Just going back the number of splines on the input shaft, its changes by chassis number. Anything below 487 is a 36 spline and 488> is 22.

 

This is only for g60/16v though as far as I'm aware. VRs get a different rack altogther??

[steve_16v 0]

Variability is the problem. Sometimes it feels tight, planted, confident. Sometimes it feels vague, torque steers like a loon, going round high speed bends feels like cornering-by-averages, it feels like the front end of the car is on tip-toes. Hard to describe...

And then there's the occasional clunks..

 

That sounds remarkably like mine, apart from the clunks and there isn't too much torque steer ... but then it is only a 16v. Also it's pretty much always pulling to the left as well (not just because of the camber of the road either).

 

Sometimes though it feels perfectly fine. :?

 

Of course, there's other things could cause similar changes in the suspension geometry - bottom ball joints (replaced), wishbones/bushes (replaced), track rod ends could shift the tracking out (replaced - several times), even top mount movement could do it, but they've been replaced too ...

 

Changed all these as well, and the suspension, and have had it laser aligned more than once.