Driving choices

[StuartFZR400 0]

We all love our cars and I can't think of anything better than driving along in the C down an open country road in the summer. Sounds nice huh; but as we know the roads are busy and too often you find you're behind traffic.

 

How often have you driven from a 30 or 40 mph zone into a national speed limit, with no traffic about to only find you catch up slow cars ahead. Now you've got a choice: do you (a) doze off into another world and follow the traffic? ... or (b) find a safe* place to overtake?

 

*assuming you adhere to the Highway Code

 

-------

 

Now obviously I have an oppinion and its simple. The Highwaycode was thought out for a reason; regardless of whethere you agree with it or not, you cant blame someone who wishes to stick to it. So if they choose to overtake on a clear part of road with a broken white line, then it seems fine. I must admit I choose option B

 

Now from my view, it seems so many people choose to be the Sheep and not overtake. Now that could be for any number of reasons; be it lack of confidence, poor performance car, etc. However it doesnt take long to create a long train of slow cars. And how often do these people drive too close and make overtakes for other people harder?

 

Example of a non-safe overtake

That gives me a classic example from a couple weeks ago. I was doing about 60-ish along a road and was so glad it was clear. My mind started to think as I entered a twisty wooded section. I wondered what would happen if someone came the other way at the same speed as me head-on, or if they made a mistake or somthing; subconsously I backed off to about 59. I came upto a right hander (shallow but restricted view) which is followed by a (good view) left, you can see straight across there. What did I see? Mr Porsche 911 on my side of the road Head-on. Now I cant remember if its a solid white line there or not; it doesnt matter in this case. Im thinking, ok he's overtaking a car (which I cant see from the trees across the right bend). As I get round the right hander and my view opens up, I see a solid line of 4 cars and suddenly realise Mr 911 has got to overtake all 4 cars. At 59mph it was all happening rather quick but that earlier thought had my foot covering the brake and so I was able to come to a very quick stop. .............. I waited. And sure enough, because the traffic was doing about 30, Mr 911 just about pulled it off, whilst I sat there. It soon occured to me that something might be coming up behind me at 60, so I pulled off thinking how lucky I was. That to me was a classic example of how a bad overtake was made worse by the fact all 3 cars were tailgating behind Mr-slow. I dont know what that proves - just tells me that you gotta get your overtake right.

 

And why is it that I could keep going with many examples? I mean, just from within the past couple weeks I could list a few. The last scare I had was on the bike; back from Stratford, the narrower road, a new Mini decided to overtake his mate on solid white lines, head-on to me again; this was a very short straight section. He had a few mates in his Mini and was laughing, as the other car sped up, another lad who I presume was his mate - yes this means they were racing each other, on SOLID white lines; I watched in my mirror as they caught up a car ahead of them - no idea what happened as they went round the left bend. Lucky I was on the bike and had room to miss him. That road has just been reduced to a 50, yet it cant prevent t*ssers like that. I think Im going to get a bus-pass, LOL

[dr_mat 0]

I can see some stories about bears forestry habits coming up ..

[StuartFZR400 0]

:roll: here we go......

[chrishill 0]

I'm sorry, but this comes down to Mr 911 being a w**ker.

 

I would guess, in a 911 with other cars doing around 30 he'd spend about 10-15 seconds pulling out, overtaking and returning to the correct side of the road when dealing with ONE car, that figure wouldnt quite be multiplied by 4 for four cars, but I reckon he wouldnt be far off spending 25 seconds on the wrong side of the road, depending how far appart the cars were and if he broke the speed limit or not. That length of time on the wrong side of the road around country lanes where visiblity is poor is just plain dangerous driving. Add to the mix the fact that the guy right behind the slow moving car might have chosen to try and overtake at the same time (and doubtless wouldnt be expecting another car to be making the same move) and you can see just how stupid this kind of thing is. Just because you have a powerful car doesnt give you the right to flaunt road safty. I think the fact that you had to pull up and stop to let him get back in without a colision is evidence enough of his w**keryness.

 

For the question posed: Yes, overtake people when its safe to do so, 'safe' being a term thats defined by the conditions, not simply by the fact that you have a fast car which you think will get you out of sticky situations simply by being fast.

[StuartFZR400 0]

Chris, yeh, dont get me wrong; I started off the thread with something else in mind. That was just a second thought - one which was a clear example of a bad overtake - no blame on Mr-slow and no blame on tailgaters either. Mr 911 had a choice and made a wrong decision. One car would've been close enough, 4 was a joke!!

 

Backonto the question ------ if its SAFE ---> what do YOU do?

[chrishill 0]

Overtake, unless I'm in the missus 206 in which case its NEVER safe to overtake, its only just safe to pull out of a junction with the only other car on your side of the road half a mile away doing 30 :?

[stingman123 0]

But then you get the problem of the middle lane idiots, their car is on the road but the driver is already at the destination!!

 

I always give them time to rectify their errors, but will ultimately undertake...illegal I know, always 95% safe as the driver isn't on the planet.

 

does this make me a bad driver, 'cause it generally is safe...... so I do it

[.A.N.T. 0]

Depends on my mood really... I would have overtaken a few years ago, but I'm much more chilled about it all now. Once I'd got past this car there would only be another one just up the road from it to get stuck behined.

 

Too many cars on the roads really...

[StuartFZR400 0]

stigman - I think you've gotten onto motorway driving there, which is just another peeve, but less of one. Middle or outside lane hoggers are a pain in the butt and I understand you want to undertake but its definately wrong and the old Bill will jump all over your head if they see you do it and totally ignore the anoying driver ahead of you. If the traffic is very dense I might choose the middle lane as the outer lane slows down (or brakes as they often do), and filter underneath. And no, undertaking isn't safe - whats the bet that the same driver will pull back in without an indicator, not realising you're underneath them???

 

--

 

Ok, I know what fueled my question. In advanced riding, its the school of thought that if you catch someone up, that means they're going slower than you and they need overtaking at a safe point. Yet Im not always in the 'mood' to be 100% comitted, as it takes total concentration as you know, to get it right. However there is a cut off point of how slow I will go and being used to overtaking everything on the bike, I expect to get good progress in the car too; so when I catch 3 vehicles doing 30 in a 60, then I choose to overtake. A recent example had me overtake a van (that had dissapeared ahead of me from the 30) on a, great view, downhill. Next up were two cars; the slow car in front and a Polo tailgating him. Well, as steve_16v suggests below, I blatted through the last bend, popped out and took a look - all clear - so overtook both cars. Pulled back in and made progress. All until I hit a que of traffic and as I sat there there is a sliproad off to the left, the van came up beside me and stopped and clapped at me - sarcastically, obviously - why? I mean there was no traffic coming the other way to make it dangerous. The only thing I can think of is that he was either jealous or miffed I had to drop in hard across his bonnet as the gap he left was small (say 2 cars). What a ******

 

I suppose I do expect people here to agree with option B but then again it could be a mirror of regular drivers; and Mat may think that everyone here will choose option B, but a guy here at work who owns an Alfa GT reckons its rare that you should overtake. Onto a slight slant on this; I often find people exceed a 30 zone and will tailgate you if you're doing say 33. Go ahead for all I care and speed, its not my license, but for gawd sakes, can you please stop tailgating and just overtake me - or dont they know how?

[steve_16v 0]

Like 33hz it all depends on my mood at the time, sometimes I just sit behind the traffic, other times I'll overtake a couple of cars at once. If you know the roads well you can back off before the overtaking straight to get some distance between your car and theirs, then accelerate round the bend so you're doing about 60 when you pass the first car, a few seconds later you've gone past the others with plenty of time to spare before the next bend.

 

Don't do it so much these days though, think I'm slowly turning into a Devon driver :(

[dr_mat 0]

I think on a forum devoted to car enthusiasts the vast majority will overtake. People's opinion of what's safe and what isn't will be the only dividing line.

I agree wholly - it's frustrating getting stuck behind a queue of people who aren't even trying to overtake a slower vehicle, and admit to making some questionable decisions about when to try it.. Fortunately I've never (so far) got that decision as wrong as your Mr 911 above ..

[TheWizardofOdds 0]

On the subject of undertaking being illegal(stingman 123)..is it?

Many times I'm in the outside lane of a dual carriageway and the lady(in her 4x4)who is turning right in approx. 5 miles is ahead of me doing 40mph,I'm not hassling her to move but it's pretty obvious who's travelling here.If I speed up to 50,move into the inside lane and then pull out to the right hand lane(having safely passed of course),all within the speed limit,why should this be deemed illegal?

[dr_mat 0]

It's deemed illegal because it says so in the highway code.

As for whether it *should* be illegal that's a different question, but that's not what you asked ...

Anyway, it's the same old story; two wrongs make a right?

[bcstudent 0]

I assume undertaking is illegal as cars were only required to have a mirror fitted to the driver's side back in the day? I fail to see the problem with undertaking a car with two mirrors...and a driver that knows how to use them.

[TheWizardofOdds 0]

It's deemed illegal because it says so in the highway code.

As for whether it *should* be illegal that's a different question, but that's not what you asked ...

Au contraire Rodney,that's exactly what I asked,why is it illegal?

Alas,I know I'm not going to be 'done' for it,but a few passengers who are drivers have pulled me up for it.What gives?

[chrishill 0]

I'm not entirely sure why it's illegal, the same rule applies in germany though.

[StuartFZR400 0]

I assume undertaking is illegal as cars were only required to have a mirror fitted to the driver's side back in the day? I fail to see the problem with undertaking a car with two mirrors...and a driver that knows how to use them.

 

You'd have thought so, but you're making an assumption "driver that knows". The same person who hoggs the outside lane will be the same idiot who changes lane without indication back into the side of you as you undertake.

 

We need a point of blame and so make a rule. Much like if you crash into the back of someone its always your fault, even if its not in that one instance. (although many insurance claims seem to be going 50/50 nowadays). It should make you very aware of whats ahead of you - you'd think it would prevent tailgating...

 

I see lots of people undertaking, as there seems to be a trend that people 'think' they 'own the road'. This mentality just sucks; much like that Van driver I mentioned !!

[dr_mat 0]

Ah yes, serves me right for not properly reading it, eh? :)

Anyway, undertaking has always been illegal in this country, and continues to be so because it's a habit. People are used to the concept that no-one is going to drive past them on their left and therefore it would be unsafe to change the law to allow that. Of course, reality is we all know plenty of times when people have undertaken and it's becoming more common and therefore you're more likely to *look* before you move to the left than you used to be...

 

Imagine someone release a gun that fired out the handle end? There'd be loads of people who shot themselves until the "cultural memory" of how to use a gun became modified to include the "check which end the bullet comes out of" bit ...

 

Ok, extreme example.. but you see my point? :)

[TheWizardofOdds 0]

Anyway,undertake,and enjoy with impunity.The law allows.Almost.

[dinkus 10]

IMHO - If you're going to overtake you need to both be able to see far enough ahead so that you can comfortably overtake the car(s) in front of you and have a visible spot that you can pull back into again.

 

Yes, people often bunch up and leave no space - in which case you overtake all of them (unlikely) or you just wait it out, put some nice tunes on and chill.

 

Life's too short to worry about whether you're 2mins late for something because you had to drive slowly behind them - don't worry about it.

 

I was driving somewhere the otherday on a road that I know like the back of my hand and has some excellent, long overtaking spots...at 40...behind a lorry. I had the window down, some music on that I was singing along to and I was in no rush at all. I could have overtaken the lorry at least 3 or 4 times if I'd wanted to, but the wind noise would have meant I'd have to put the window up and I couldn't be bothered.

 

Similarly - undertaking on a motorway is dangerous especially if it's a numpty that's hogging a lane. They're most likely hogging the lane because they don't check in their mirrors to see what's behind them. They're quite clearly bad drivers, so why on earth would they look to their left (and/or indicate) before changing lanes when there's not supposed to be anyone there?

 

Like I said - wait and ride it out and don't sit up their backside either cos that's equally as dangerous.

 

If you're really getting cheesed off with them - pull into the middle lane and then back out behind them - the movement usually catches their eye and they'll see you and pull over. Careful when you do it though - if there's someone behind you they will think you're pulling over to let them past and will give it some beans. Having said that, the numpty should then pull over and let you all past anyway.

[craigowl 0]

Does it/did it not say something in the Highway Code to the effect

"never overtake on the inside lane unless there is a queue of slower moving traffic on the outside lane"?

 

Don't suppose we can regard the driver on the outside lane due to turn right as a "queue"?

I would probably go for it (with caution), though.

 

The "turning-right" bit can apply on a dual carriageway, (e.g. Perth-Dundee road, wizardofodz?) but not on an M-way, of course.

[StuartFZR400 0]

1. IMHO - If you're going to overtake you need to both be able to see far enough ahead so that you can comfortably overtake the car(s) in front of you and have a visible spot that you can pull back into again.

 

2. Yes, people often bunch up and leave no space - in which case you overtake all of them (unlikely) or you just wait it out, put some nice tunes on and chill.

 

3. Life's too short to worry about whether you're 2mins late for something because you had to drive slowly behind them - don't worry about it.

 

1. thats obvious, as said, "Highway code" etc. Safety first ;)

 

2. Bunching is a big problem, as for Mr 911. I personally hate it in the car because I KNOW Im going to be stuck for a long while; so yep Dom, I sit much further back as it requires much less concentration than bumper hogging; although it seems hopeless that in a 60 you catch them up whilst trying to drive slowly at 40 , as per my Van thing - hence I chose to nip past.

 

3. Lifes too short - in general yeh; if Im in no hurry, Ive been know to take a (slower) country side road just to get away from the train. But theres loads of roads like this near me and it makes more than 2mins difference. Im also of the mind that if Im in a zombie mood I often endup taking 20mins longer to get to work.

[dinkus 10]

Yeah sorry - wasn't supposed to be lecturing people.

 

1 was aimed at Mr. 911 that obviously had no point to pull in or a clear sight of what he was overtaking :roll:

[.A.N.T. 0]

I live next to dual carridgeway and indicate very early for my turn off if I see a car behined me as I'll be doing the speed limit (60) and nearly everyone wants to go faster. I think if a car is indicating right then you can undertake it as it's not gunna turn left (you hope)

 

Came back down the M25 the other day on a saturday lunchtime and was gunna start a thread about the bloody right hand lane hoggers. Even people sitting in the middle lane as well as they're preventing people from moving over from the 'overtaking' lane... grrrrrrrr :mad:

 

Only thing is though, with all the increase in lane changes that would follow from people actually driving as they'e supposed to, do you think there would be more crashes??

[StuartFZR400 0]

:lol: I love the way this has turned into Motorway lane-hogging.

 

33hz - I think you may have a point there, more crashes etc. Putting 3rd lane hoggers to one side for now, I think I know why middle lane hoggers exist. They dont use thier mirrors and cant judge distance+ speed; hence if they use lane 1, then every time they catch a lorry up or see several cars coming down a slip road to join, they would want to move to the middle lane, which as you know requires an observation of traffic behind/alongside - this is a task they dont like to do. So if they were somehow encouraged to use the correct lane discipline then maybe there would be a few more crashes, although I reckon from practice these people would get the hang of it.... maybe.

 

I take it your duel-cariageway is NOT a national speed limit?? (as that makes it a 70 zone) And even then I doubt very much I would undertake you, because whos to say you're not a silly-billy and not turning atall and just accidently left your indicator on - hence safer to wait. Yet, if you've got no central reservation lane and you're slowing down to an almost stop in this quick road, then I'll slide under.