Play in suspension...should this happen?? Fairly Urgent!

[TomD 0]

Ok... Jacked up the front right of the car today just to check on the front brakes I changed 2000 or so miles ago...

 

...There's a fair amount of play in the top mount, with it off the ground you can grab the coilover, or the top bit in the engine bay and make the hub wobble.

 

My steerings always felt a bit 'odd'.... and makes the odd funny noise (knock-ish noise) Could this be why?

 

Or is supposed to do that, and am I being a muppet?

 

My car's on fully adjustable weitec coilovers, so whats it like to swap the top mounts? I've only done it once before on normal shocks. Do I need do the whole spring compressor thing, or do they just bolt on the top?

 

Cheers in advance!

 

Tom

[TomD 0]

P.S. Is it worth getting uprated top mounts while I'm at it? :)

[Jim 2]

No.. it should all be fairly solid! If its the hub end thats wobbling then I wouldn't say its the top mounts that are to blame?

 

I swapped the top mounts about 2 weeks ago (well - 2cc did most of the work but I helped with some of it! honest!) and it was a total git! I chose to do mine as after jacking up the car not so long ago, found that the suspension strut was loose at the top - assumed that the top mount was lunched. Turned out when we set about undoing it all, one of the bolts in there wasn't tightened up.. probably didn't help.

 

Technically there isn't that much to do, but 2cc did need all manner of little tools and gizmo's - sockets with holes in them, etc etc.. and yes we did need spring compressors also. Took about 5 fairly casual hours including a break for lunch and having to spend about an hour on bolts that refused to budge..

 

Just get VR6 top mounts.. they're reccommended by VW for replacing existing 16v/G60 items and are far better!

[TomD 0]

No.. it should all be fairly solid! If its the hub end thats wobbling then I wouldn't say its the top mounts that are to blame?

 

What I mean is, there's play at the top of the strut, which means the hub has movement (like an eliptical top mount, but crapper)

 

Bugger, had a feeling that was gone be the answer!

 

Do you have normal type Struts, with the top nut with those 2 wedges in it? As I can't see that anywhere on the top of my strut, unlike the normal VW ones. I'm guessing (hoping) as its a totally different unit it won't have it, just a 22mm bolt.

 

As for the VR6 top mounts, are these ones listed on GSF ok to use??

 

45737K STRUT TOP MOUNTING KIT CO VR6 8/91 >

 

I'm guessing these would be the proper replacements?

 

45709A STRUT TOP MOUNTING CO 4 Cyl >7/94

 

Thanks Jim! :)

[Jim 2]

I've got FK's on mine I think but the nut at the top was the one with the two wedges (such an infuriating design!), but 2cc bought replacement ones from VW which fit on better, are not as tall, and are far easier to get on and off.

 

Not sure about GSF parts mate.. got all my stuff from VAG. I'm definately more into OE parts these days instead of pattern parts...

 

Thats about as much use as I can be. As most people on here know i'm very vague and not very technical! :D

[TomD 0]

No Worries, thanks very much for your help.

 

I've just been looking at the bentley manual, i'm thinking its gonna be a pain in the arse, plus I'm gonna have to set the camber and tracking afterwards as well, fun fun fun! :(

 

I think the idea of doing it at home is rapidly becoming a non starter, so its either off to the garage or enlist a mate and borrow his workshop! :)

[Andy T 0]

Alot of suspension top knocking is usually due to the slotted nut at the top of the strut coming loose, usually because its not been tightened with the correct tool (which are cheap enough from halfords/GSF etc.)

 

Do VR6 top mounts not make the suspension sit higher?

[andy 0]

You will get a bit of play in the hub (up and down) with no weight on the strut. When you take the wheel off and jack the car up there will be no weight on the top mount anymore and the strut may drop slightly until the top cap reaches the turret. Therefore you will be able to move the strut up and down a bit between the top mount (under the turret) and the top cap (above the turret). Worn top mounts will increase this movement though. I'd be more concerned by the odd knocking noises and the strange feeling in the steering.

[Supercharged 2]

Check the ball joints too...

[Yandards 0]

Alot of suspension top knocking is usually due to the slotted nut at the top of the strut coming loose, usually because its not been tightened with the correct tool (which are cheap enough from halfords/GSF etc.)

 

Do VR6 top mounts not make the suspension sit higher?

 

No to the VR mounts making the car sit higher.

 

Don't get GSF ones, they just do not last as long as the VAG ones. Vr ones are preferable due to the fact the early (late valvers had the 'vr' top mounts as well) 16v/G60s top mount setup has metal to metal contact from top to bottom so you can get a very harsh thump on our fantastic british roads.

[TomD 0]

Meh, I went to GSF to get some top mounts, looked at their 'VR6' ones and they looked a totally different shape, so I played safe and went for the G60 ones. I'm gonna pull it apart tomorrow/saturday so I'll have a good look at everything then. TBH at 175k I'm tempted to just replace the whole set up (ball joiunts, wishbones, all the bushes) Is that gonna be likely to cost a hell of a lot?

 

Cheers for your help guys!

 

As or the slight knocking, what I mean is I'd heard a very similar sound in a mates old mk2, and it turned out to be the top mount, so fingers crossed It'll solve it. Its not really a knock, its hard to describe, but you can kind of feel it. And if the wheel moves slightly, then that would surely effect the steering slightly? :?:

[Jim 2]

The VR mounts definately make the front end higher Yan. We literally did nothing on my suspension other than remove it, fit new mounts and put it back again and now the front on my car is noticably higher than the back.. need to wind my coilies down at the front a bit now before getting the camber, etc reset :(

[dr_mat 0]

...There's a fair amount of play in the top mount, with it off the ground you can grab the coilover, or the top bit in the engine bay and make the hub wobble.

 

I didn't like this thread, because I'm not clear on exactly what you're talking about here. "wobble" - in what way? As long as the hub is firmly attached to the strut, and it's just the strut top moving, which in turn causes the hub to move, then look at the strut itself.

Once the strut is hanging on the top plate, a small amount of movement is inevitable, because the struts were never designed to prevent sideways motion. The car's weight is supposed to be supported by the top spring plate, against the underside of the top mount. The strut just damps the vertical movement, it never experiences sideways thrust under any circumstances.

[Supercharged 2]

Jim, You already had the MK3 Mounts on you car tho as it's a late 16V - if all you have changed is the rubber dohnuts and bearings then it just proves the old ones were completly knackered if it's sitting higher...

[TomD 0]

Sorry, I was a bit vague! I'll try and describe it better....

 

...with the weight off then wheel, you could grap the top cup in the engine bay and shake it, which made the whole strut move with it, and the hub too (mostly in the camber direction) It moved way more than they're supposed to, and made metal on metal noise.

 

Jim, You already had the MK3 Mounts on you car tho as it's a late 16V - if all you have changed is the rubber dohnuts and bearings then it just proves the old ones were completly knackered if it's sitting higher...

 

Agreed!

 

Mine sits a tiny bit higher now its got the new ones fitted....

 

....but its because the old ones were totally fubared! One was bent, and when we took the other one off the strut the ball bearings all came out. When you looked at them in the car and compared them to the new ones theres a metal collar that sits inside the rubber 'donut', it just wasn't attached and went up and down on its own.

 

Might take some pictures of them later...not good stuff, but still its fixed now.

 

But it wasn't too hard a job, only tricky thing was trimming the drop spanner with an angle grinder so it would fit in the top cup! Took about 3 hours in all, with many cups of tea.

 

But now they're really firm, and the only movement from side to side is from the rubber compressing. So happy days!

 

Thanks very much for all your help guys, much appreciated! :)

 

I'm tempted to replace all the ball joints, bearings and wishbones etc along with the bushes at some point, it feels much tighter than it did but not perfect! :)

[Charleyvr6 0]

Excellent ! I got ushered to this tread from the yahoo group and had just posted a similar problem.

For the second year running my car has failed its mot on the top mounts, which have covered less than 8k since they were changed last year. My mechanic mate told the tester that when the spring is under no load they do wobble in the turrets and that this is perfectly normal. I have to say that in the 6 years I've owned the car this has always been the case and it has gone through the mot every time (before last year) so I always assumed it was normal (if a little odd) that it's just the weight of the car that keeps it together. It would also explain why I get the most godawful clonk when I go over one particular peice of back road that has a rather nasty very badly cambered surface when giving it some beans. (I guess the wheel comes off the ground for a second and then snaps back in).

So can I now go and call the tester a wonker and ask him to pay me back for errouniously failing them last year.

Cheers guys

Charley.

[dr_mat 0]

(The wheel shouldn't leave the ground unless your shocks are knackered, btw...)

It's normal for the top mount to "settle" each time you lower the car back onto it's wheels, but you should get one clunk and then it's done.

That said, I think all Corrados have a clunk or two from the front suspension, they're just old and clunky...

[TomD 0]

That said, I think all Corrados have a clunk or two from the front suspension, they're just old and clunky...

 

 

I'm starting to think that too!

 

Just been pricing up new suspension components to try and get it a bit tighter...wishbones, ball joints, wheel bearings etc. Thing is, the normal bushes are pretty cheap and would make it a not too expensive job. The powerflex bushes are a fair amount more and would make it quite a bitmore expensive job.

 

Is it worth the extra money?

[coolrado 0]

the powerflex bushes are also that stiff that they will hold the wheels up when you jack the car up and will stop the top mounts being loose in the strut top, if you do go for standard top mounts and bushes it really is worth getting proper vw ones, i am sick of changing the crappy febi ones from ECP they only lasted about 6 months before the front top mounts collapsed.

[dr_mat 0]

From what I've heard, powerflex et al are very much an acquired taste. Stick to VW unless you really know you want your suspension v. hard. The VW ones will last 100k miles and will be tons better than the old crap you've currently got..

I'll be interested to know what your pricings come out at.. Particularly for wishbones and stuff.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yep your mechanic mate is correct. The weight of the car keeps the top mount seated in it's turret cup and the top plate stops the strut dropping down when the car is jacked up. A lot of MOT testers are aware of certain quirks with assorted cars but like to try and get away with a fail where possible. Another a favourite is failing the rear wheel bearings on play, which is complete bollards as there HAS to be play in them to function properly.

 

There should be no clunks anywhere in the suspension. Yes it's an old platform, but not we're not talking leaf springs and torsion bars from the 50s here.

 

Clunks are metal on metal contact, plain and simple, and that's wear and tear, not a design flaw of the car as such.

 

True, it does take a lot of time and money erradicating knocks, creaks and clunks from these cars, but it's worth it 8)

 

Top mounts don't last long these days, especially nearside ones (where the lion's share of all the bumps and road dirt are) due to reduced quality in parts production and utility companies constantly digging up the roads.

 

It's one reason why I chopped in the OE mounts for something a little better.