does a 9a FEEL quicker

[iggi 0]

hi folks. i drive a 1.8 16v rado. ive had it comin up to 4 years now. its been perfect apart from the odd expected niggle, and still is. its driven most days, and as is stripped out it is pleasantly quick and nimble 8) . but as it gets older, i have started to get thoughts about what to do engine wise when this one inevitably starts to get tired (i think!). ive looked into 16v turbo (cool idea, but im no mechanic to keep it in in order), and 20v turbo (too pricey :shock: ). i always come back to the 2litre 9a bottom end idea. would still run it on kjet for a while. my mate has a mk2 golf with throttle bodied 9a and to drive its amazing, but the cash he spunked put me off for now at least. ive searched for this, and have found loads of talk about bhp and more torque, but my question is does it FEEL any quicker? is it worth shelling out for?

 

cheers in advance

[Jim 1]

Well having owned a Corrado 2.0 16v with no engine modifications, and now owning one with the KR cam modification (so approx only 15-20BHP increase but still) you can most definately notice that... so if you were to throw some real money into the engine doing some good proven modifications, I think it'd ultimately be worth it!

[davidwort 0]

You're adding 10% displacement so torque rises across the rev range in about the same proportion, expect around 125lb/ft from a healthy 1.8 and 140-145 from a good 9A. Even a standard 2.0 16v Corrado with it's flat intake cam feels more torquey to drive than a 1.8, so if you use the 1.8 K-jet and inlet cam on a 2L bottom end you will get a nice hike in power and low-mid range torque.

Feeling quicker is a difficult one, if you use the 1.8 cams the engine will still have very much the same characteristics, just 10% more go over most of the rev range, it will definately be quicker but you soon get used to the additional power and it will still need 3,500-4000 revs before it really gets going on the 1.8 cams.

I've found a 2L 16v audi block for 100 quid before (only the sump and oil pickup pipe are different) , so it is possible to do the conversion (using your own labour) for under two hundred quid, including all the consumables and even a headgasket set and bolts.

If you find a running MOT failure audi or passat it's worth just swapping the lumps, if you feel a bit more flush and have the time and want to keep the car longer, then a strip down, re-hone of the bores and new bearings is a good investment, don't risk non VAG engine bearings though, far too many destroyed blocks around from taking that shortcut :(

[leadfoot 0]

Hi lads - good info there. I'm considering KR cams for my 2L 16v 9a. Head is currently getting rebuilt and the teeth on the standard cams are damaged. Considering I have to get a new chain & new sprockets for my cams anyway (I'm no mechanic so apologies for not knowing what it's called!), I thought I might upgrade. The block on my engine was bored out before and new oversized pistons (+.3 I believe) fitted, but I guess that makes no difference to the +15/20 bhp with the new cams. Question is, what else do i need to fit the cams, where should I get them and how much would they cost?

 

Thanks

[nocrap 0]

what else do i need to fit the cams

 

You don't essentially need anything to fit the cams but it's good practice to replace the cam timing chain, these should be available from GSF for around £10. I did struggle to get one from them as they kept saying that they weren't made any more!

 

Also while you're at it you could also do a cam belt and tensioner pulley change, use genuine stuff but this will set you back another £65 or so.

 

where should I get them and how much would they cost?

 

A set of new KR cams will be hundreds (You'll only need the inlet one). if you can wait around on here, edition 38 forums or club gti you'll find they come up every now and again.

 

Normal price seems to be around the £25 mark

[g60greeny 0]

ive looked into 16v turbo (cool idea, but im no mechanic to keep it in in order),

 

a local lad has done the 16vt he's a member on here,but heres a link to his e38 post

http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.p ... 126961&hl=

[Blaklabel313 0]

The kr cams normally come up on fle-bay quite often...got mine for £25 all in. you only need the inlet cam though, (thats the one without the big cog on the end) but they will normally come as a pair.

 

i havnt fitted mine yet as im doing a bike carb conversion at the moment but plan to put it in before its all set up.

[leadfoot 0]

Thanks lads - sounds like the right thing to do is get the existing standard ones fixed up and wait for a KR inlet cam to come for sale....would have been nice to get it all done at one go, but it's not worth the big bucks. What is involved in replacing it later on? I'm assuming the head doesn't need to come off again?

[Blaklabel313 0]

just the rocker cover needs to come off (and inlet manifold etc if your still using them) Remove the chain, loosen off clamps on inlet cam to relieve valve tension and then remove carefully, fit new one( kinda..lol) it will take a mechanic about 2-3 hours to fit....you will then want to get it rolling roaded to set it all up properly to get the best gains etc.

[leadfoot 0]

cheers

[leadfoot 0]

I thought I should update this as I did get the KR cam fitted. It feels much quicker - best comparison I can make is that it's as revvy as the 1.8 16v now, but with more torque at the low end. I've enjoyed it for many months now :D Also drilled holes in the air intake box and replaced filer with a K&N one.

 

The downside I noticed since the KR cam went in is that it was immediately much harder to start when cold! I thought it was a fuel pump/fuel cut-off problem (when it wouldnt start and I had to get it towed!), but turns out the fuel was flowing no problem and I just needed to give it plenty of fuel before trying to start it.

 

I haven't heard anyone else comment about this problem on here,so here are the symptoms if anyone has experience of this - would love to get it sorted so the wife can drive it without it cutting out all the time in the first mile!

 

1. Have to pump the accelerator before trying to start it when engine not up to temperature. If you try to start it without the pedal pumping, it seems to flood itself with petrol. Removing the wire to the cold start injector tends to give it a fighting chance of starting but when it does it pops and bangs for a few seconds before stabilising

2. car will idle when started but its down at 200-300 revs, so not doing it any good. give it a few revs and let it off and its back to the normal 800 rpm idle - I'm guessing the knock sensors kick in to do this.

3. as soon as you move off and stop again (before the oil temperature registers onthe MFA), it cuts out and you have to restart again

4. Once its up to temp, it flys along, lots of power, idles perfectly at 800 rpm etc.

 

Anyone got any ideas? Looking for a 50mm inlet manifold now - might getting more air in there solve the problem? Is it linked to me having got the big bore pistons fitted? Theres 150k on the engine, but it was completely rebuilt at 110k and there are no funy noises. Drinks a bit of oil (at least a ltr per 1000miles) , but has done for some time and I think thats normal enough

[davidwort 0]

harder to start usually means the ignition is too far advanced, conversely an engine with really retarded ignition is very easy to start.

Are you sure the engine and ignition timing was all put back spot on after the cam swap?

[leadfoot 0]

I thought that too, but brought it straight back to mechanic and watched as he checked it. All spot on and back on the marks made before he stripped it. New distributor cap, injectors, leads and plugs notlong before too

[davidwort 0]

perhaps you have a cold start valve/temp sensor issue just at the same time by coincidence, never heard of a 2L with this problem just by fitting a KR inlet and the overbore shouldn't make any difference. If it runs fine through the revs and under load then I think that rules out a hall sender or metering head problem.

[GlosterOx 0]

perhaps you have a cold start valve/temp sensor issue just at the same time by coincidence, never heard of a 2L with this problem just by fitting a KR inlet and the overbore shouldn't make any difference. If it runs fine through the revs and under load then I think that rules out a hall sender or metering head problem.

 

Not had any problem either since Vince fitted my KR Cam to a 150K 2.0 16V - Starts normally and idles beautifully when warm without any hunting, etc.

 

Ian :D

[leadfoot 0]

Thanks guys. I've never had it on a VAG-com so I've sort of resigned myself to living with it until I get a chance to meet up with someone that has one - would that identify the problem?

 

- maybe I should just order a new cold start valve and try that in the meantime? I've put up 110k miles on it over 10 years and its never had anything adjusted from standard to tune it or anything.