Advice on best speakers, without an amp...

[Jim 1]

Good day Jimbo. Long time mate!

 

Alright mate. Looking forward to catching up at Stanford? I'd be surprised if you won't be there with something from your fleet of VW and Karmann's finest! :lol:

 

Would be good to have a listen in your VR - I think we're thinking along the same sorts of lines here. I'm REALLY not talking a show stereo system, nor am I interested in bragging rights (I've got THIS amp, and THIS £600 head unit) - I just don't want my music to sound crap and I want it to be fairly discreet because I do have to park my car in city centres and stuff from time to time. A basic sub and otherwise drop in replacements for speakers sounds exactly like what I wanted.

[Philuk 0]

if you want to keep the orig shelf the only thing i can think is that you strengthen it up a bit!, maybe put a piece of MDF in the recess on the shelf cit the 6x9 holes out and mount em from underneath on that, then cover the whole lot, the shelf shouldnt buckle because the mdf wont move that much :)

[DEL VR6 0]

Alright mate. Looking forward to catching up at Stanford? I'd be surprised if you won't be there with something from your fleet of VW and Karmann's finest! :lol:

Defo looking forward to it, and hopefully will be bringing something different this year.

 

I think we're thinking along the same sorts of lines here. I'm REALLY not talking a show stereo system, nor am I interested in bragging rights (I've got THIS amp, and THIS £600 head unit)

Totally agree. Have been there and done it and found it a waste of good money. Each to their own and all that. Im happy with the set up i have so thats all that really matters i suppose.

 

I just don't want my music to sound crap and I want it to be fairly discreet because I do have to park my car in city centres and stuff from time to time. A basic sub and otherwise drop in replacements for speakers sounds exactly like what I wanted.

Dont rush for the sake of it. Its the sort of thing you only really wanna spend money on once.

[was8v 0]

I had a pioneer DEh-p77mp (4x50W) headunit driving VIBE 70W components (tweeters in dash and woofers in doors) and it sounded superb.

 

I run some ebay special 6x4s in the back for rear full which sound reasonable.

 

I then stupidly sold that headunit and bought a cheap Tevion 4x50W Mosfet headunit for the USB functionality. This sounded ARSE - an inidcation that just cos it puts out 4x50W doesn't mean its any good. Thinking the internal amp would be rubbish in that I used a 200W Pioneer amp and it still sounded arse. Proof that you need a good source no matter how good your amp and speakers.

 

Now I run an Alpine 9812RR headunit (a 9812rb but in black rather than silver) 4x60W head unit. This sounds so good without the amp that i dropped the amp.

 

So bear in mind that you need a decent headunit, I think its very important as the source of the sound must have a reasonable amp in it (like the p77mp or a good Alpine).

[DEL VR6 0]

Proof that you need a good source no matter how good your amp and speakers.

I concur. You need a reasonably decent head unit Jim.

[junkie 0]

Its all as good as your weakest part of the system

 

More power is not always better either a 200w clean power will sound better and louder than 400w crap power.

[The_Dude 0]

 

Now I run an Alpine 9812RR headunit (a 9812rb but in black rather than silver) 4x60W head unit. This sounds so good without the amp that i dropped the amp.

 

So bear in mind that you need a decent headunit, I think its very important as the source of the sound must have a reasonable amp in it (like the p77mp or a good Alpine).

 

I have a 4x60w Alpine too (diff model tho) and can't fault the sound. Crisp and well defined and if you couple it with Alpine speakers, its awesome sound for the cash. Its loud enough on its own to kick out the tunes, but not to unbearable levels. I don't have to turn my ipod up full (thus ruining the sound quality) to still get my speakers moving serious air. Go get one mate, I've had mine in my last 4 cars!

Like others say, start with a good base for best sound.

[dinkus 10]

The two most important parts to any stereo are the pre-amps (i.e. stuff inside the head unit) and the speakers. In that order.

 

As long as you don't buy cheap tat amps and wiring, then you'll be fine. That also doesn't mean you have to go out and spend stupid money on stuff either.

 

I'd definitely go with DEL and say don't rush it, as you'll end up buying parts over and over and it gets very expensive, very quickly.

[junkie 0]

I disagree Dinkus from the point when an amp is used.

 

The pre amp and the amps are more important.

 

You can make crap speakers sound good with decent amps and make good speakers sound crap with crap amps.

 

You send a good signal in the 1st place to the amp, the amp tells the speakers what to play, so as long as the system is set up right crap speakers should sound good. The amp makes the sound quality.

 

So in the case of no amp the head unit needs to send a good sound in the 1st place to the speakers which i think is where your point comes from of importance in your order.

 

Conclusion were both right :D

 

And all people saying to move some serious air from the speakers, that does not dictate sound quality, thats just volume, there is a huge difference, and just moving air does not dictate more bass/mid bass, just volume.

[dinkus 10]

Ok yes, sorry I should have been a little more specific.

 

As long as you have an amp that can comfortably provide enough power to your speakers, then there's no point in spending silly money.

 

Moving more air does just mean more volume. It usually follows that you'll get more bass too, but that's by no means a given. However, solid mounting points for the speakers helps to keep the sound clean (think of the noise difference it makes between having a sheet of tin foil that you wave around and a sheet of MDF - any extra wobbliness in your mountings distorts the sound and it doesn't sound as crisp).

 

But yes, we're both right* :lol:

 

 

 

*Obviously I'm more right

[Jim 1]

Anybody got any eBay hunt suggestions for a good but affordable headunit with decent built-in amplification? I'm guessing my £99 JVC unit isn't going to give anything like the punch I want...

[mariojoshi 1]

Alpine and Pie 'n' Ear are usually safe bets if you don't go for the ultra budget stuff, from my experience.

 

Very happy with my Pioneer DEH6700MP (Might not be the best HU on the market, but does me fine!)

[junkie 0]

Dinkus, i totally agree with your post as yes more air moving means more mid bass when mounted solid, more crisp is a good word you use as it sounds more but is most likely not, just your getting the best from the speaker.

 

Jim, you may be surprised, im not saying it will be the best and its not all about the power rating but the processing power in terms of say a PC, like you can have the best, fastest speed internet but no processing power in the PC then it will still be slow i guess, where as if you have a fast large processor and average speed internet, then it will most likely be quicker than the former.

 

I may be wrong with that but trying to compare it to something you may be able to get your head around all the ideas. Apply the theory to headunits and speakers and amps kinda thing.

 

I know the car that won quite alot of competitions with a £200 alpine headunit, way different set up but the point is yes you dont need to spend a fortune, just choose wisely.

 

I cant offer any suggestions as i have high end audio in mine and believe you need amps and processors etc, so i will end the posting now Jim :D

 

The car i said above i know its not what your looking for but just thought i would show you it as it is well cool and the pictures do not show it for how good it actually is, you need to read it by the way as all is not what it seems 8)

 

Have a look and read around the site when you have time though, honestly call them though as they will and do do all size systems and budgets.

[dr_mat 0]

Actually it's a human perception thing - bass is something you feel as much as hear, and if you turn up the volume you *feel* it more, which reinforces your perception that you *hear* it more. So it's pretty automatic: you turn it up you feel that the bass is stronger than it was before relative to the rest of the sound - even though it's NOT actually any louder than the rest of the frequencies being produced.

 

This is why amps often had "loudness" buttons that boosted the frequency extremes - you were meant to hit this button at low volumes to counteract the perceived drop in bass output at low volumes. Of course, people usually just hit the button an leave it on ..

 

As for component priorities.. I can tell you that I was somewhat gobsmacked by how much better an £800 CD player was than a £300 one in my home hifi, so I'm *now* a firm believer in "source first".. I previously used to believe that only the high-current end of the chain needed serious electronics, surely the 200 mV output from a decent mid-range CD player is approximately perfect..!! But no!

[DEL VR6 0]

I have a 4x60w Alpine too (diff model tho) and can't fault the sound. Crisp and well defined and if you couple it with Alpine speakers, its awesome sound for the cash. Its loud enough on its own to kick out the tunes, but not to unbearable levels.

Corradude Which Alpine speakers do you have and where have you got them fitted? I was told that the front doors and dash spaces are so small that you are really restricted to what can go in there so i left them as stock, but frankly they are the weakest link and let the rest of it down.

 

Jim, if you can stretch to a decent Alpine head unit, that would be a great start. I have had all sorts of other makes over the years but always find Alpine the best for sound quality. It doesn't have to be all singing all dancing. Just a decent slightly above entry level unit. I'm gonna go to see my mate that has an ICE shop. will ask his advice while i am there.

[was8v 0]

Defo get a good headunit and good components.

 

Ebay is great for both - I paid £100 for my Alpine 9812rr (retail £300+) and £35 for the Vibe SA 50 components (retail £80).

 

Don't make the mistake of judging stereo equipment on the supposed power ratings. Its quality rather than quantity you want.

[The_Dude 0]

Corradude Which Alpine speakers do you have and where have you got them fitted? I was told that the front doors and dash spaces are so small that you are really restricted to what can go in there so i left them as stock, but frankly they are the weakest link and let the rest of it down.

 

Can't actually remember which specific ones I had as it was in my last C where my 6x9s got nicked and I sold the fronts to a mate for cash, but I think I had the S series in the front and the R in the back, with a 4 or 5 bias to the rear to even out the sound and not overdrive the fronts. Never got round to changing the door ones, but I did run some Fusion 6.25s(?) in my old astra and it gave good punch, and these are the ones that are going into my audioscape pods.

The fronts are definitely worth changing as I reckon that's where most of the sound actually comes from, the rest of the speaker being filler for the lower frequencies. At any rate they are the closest to your ears so you want a decent sound coming from them.

I'm not running 6x9s atm, only a sub (again alpine with an alpine amp) and frankly I'm missing that bit of mid, hopefully the audioscapes will sort that out. I will report back when i can be arsed to shave off the last few mms so the speakers fit.

[Toad 0]

I've also got an alpine 98something in the VR and am really impressed with it, I've got the ipod apapter hooked up to it. I also have an old sony Minidisk head unit in the valver with pioneer 6x9s and kenwood 2 way speakers in the doors which sounds ok.

[DEL VR6 0]

Any joy with the search for a head unit yet Jim?

 

There are loads on here:

 

http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search. ... +cd+player

[dr_mat 0]

Clearly you need one of these...

 

http://whathifi.com/hi-fi/archive/2008/ ... -here.aspx

 

".. system able not only to keep a consistent sound regardless of the speed of the vehicle, but tune the sound for any area of the car, or any type of listening material.

In the installation we saw, in the convertible Continental GTC, it can also compensate for whether or not the roof is up."

[Jim 1]

Any joy with the search for a head unit yet Jim?

 

There are loads on here:

 

http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search. ... +cd+player

 

Heh.. no mate, not yet. The wheels of progress turn slowly. Not had much time to go near the interweb in the past few evenings but got some time over the weekend so might investigate.

[KIPVW 0]

How did you get on with this Jim? just been thinking or swithchin over a couple of my speakers as one of the rear ones in the 8v doesn't work!

[Jim 1]

Not very well mate to be honest. Took a back seat to other stuff unfortunately. Stereo system in the car really needs sorting out tbh! :(

 

I ended up with a spare, butchered parcel shelf and picked up some cheapy JBL 6x9's.. everyone bemoans them but for price / convenience they're fairly good. I've got some decent speakers in the dash (Infinity Kappas) and not sure what I've got in the doors - but it sounds fairly reasonable. Would like to redo my car audio though in the coming months as I'm fed up of having a mickey mouse setup that in the grand scheme of things sounds pants!

[KIPVW 0]

Ah let us know how it sounds then once you get round to it, must do both of mine as i'm sure after 10 years of Thin Lizzy & the like the ones in the VR will be pooped too :lol:

[junkie 0]

Okmim not sure what would be involved or even if it sounds any good but everybody seems to take parts from newer cars like the engine and dash etc so is it possible to get BOSE from another car and fit it.