Advice on best speakers, without an amp...

[Jim 1]

I've always struggled to grasp car audio and subsequently have made a number of mistakes buying speakers for my car. I've bought expensive speakers and ended up with nice clarity but absolutely no weight or punch in my music at all - bass is almost non existant!

 

I'd just like some advice from folks on here on some good speakers (for each of the main speaker positions on the Corrado - dash, door, and rears) WITHOUT NEEDING AN AMP. As in, I just want to drive them off the standard head unit! I don't know anything about electrical wiring and don't want to have to worry about fitting all that stuff in.

 

My headunit does 4x50W or something?

 

Just what would give reasonable quality music (I don't need window smashing bass, or anything like that) in the factory speaker positions.

 

I'm thinking just some good quality components up front with the tweeters in the dash, some standard 6x4's for rear fill and an infinity basslink would be best? But would prefer some opinions from those folks in the know about this sort of stuff!

[Philuk 0]

JBL GTOrange is prolly your best bet i rekon, sound good when run off the HU but sound even better when amped :)

[Cnut 0]

I'm afraid you'll never get speakers to sound brilliant without being powered by a dedicated amp no matter how expensive they are. The quoted power on Headunits is often rubbish a 4x50 watt is more likely 4x10 watts basically they can't provide enough power to drive speakers without some distortion occuring. I would consider getting a separate 2ch amp just for the fronts else you'll never be happy with the puny headunit amp.

[mariojoshi 1]

I see Cnut's point, but don't agree entirely.

 

People do have very different opinions in terms of what will be good enough for them.

It's quite right that an amp is clearly the best way to go about it.... but that's not the route everyone wants to take!

Is your headunit a 4x50 MOSFET?

 

Excuse my ignorance if this is just more marketing sh1t, but I've always been under the impression that this was a better quality amplifier used in headunits.. and therefore you should get *less* distortion and a bit more drive.

[vwdeviant 0]

JIm, give these guys a call, Sound Gallerythey have always been really good to me and my friends about advice... Yeah the site looks ike mega-bucks install stuff but they are just as happy talking about low-end stuff too.

 

And they generally won't blind you with science..

[dr_mat 0]

Not that I'm even vaguely interested in in-car audio, but I can tell you that basic physics says that if you want "strong" bass you have to have one of the following:

 

- large speakers

- a tuned "bass port" - providing a single resonant peak in the bass spectrum

- lots of power

 

The latter can overcome a lack of the former, but it's usually no more than "good enough". You can trick your ears into thinking that you're hearing deep bass with tuned ports and resonance chambers and the like, but it's not the same as really responding deep down.

 

Sorry this post is probably no help at all, but I hope it'll allow you to set your expectations a little more Jim..

 

Perhaps the best compromise is some ultra-clean sounding mids+highs in the standard locations, and then add an ultra-compact subwoofer under the footwells somewhere to pad out the bottom end a little?

[Jim 1]

I see Cnut's point, but don't agree entirely.

 

People do have very different opinions in terms of what will be good enough for them.

It's quite right that an amp is clearly the best way to go about it.... but that's not the route everyone wants to take!

Is your headunit a 4x50 MOSFET?

 

Excuse my ignorance if this is just more marketing s**t, but I've always been under the impression that this was a better quality amplifier used in headunits.. and therefore you should get *less* distortion and a bit more drive.

 

Thanks for that, and you're absolutely right. I think people are misunderstanding that I want the sounds of a £1000 stereo for £50 and thats not the case.

 

Firstly - yes, my headunit is 4x50 MOSFET. Is that or a good or bad thing? :?

 

Previously (off the same head unit) I had the standard Corrado dash speakers, a pair of fat 6x9's and some different brand speakers in the door. To be honest, at that point it was loud and clear enough for me but I wanted to ditch the 6x9's and one of the standard tweeters in the dash popped.

 

I picked up some Lanzar Neo's 4x6 for the rear (and they're completely awful so far - dont know if they need amping or what!) and some nice Infinity Kappa speakers for the dash which do sound good! But I think i'm piggy backing those dash speakers through the door speakers (standard Corrado wiring) so I could just do with a refresh and getting it all stripped back and sorted out.

[Mystic Rado 0]

Are your 6x9s wired the right way round? I'm guessing you've probably checked that already, but if they're out of phase they will sound crap.

[dr_mat 0]

Dammit, you search on ebay for a subwoofer for in-car use and there's nothing with a driver less than 8" in diameter .. hardly subtle ffs.

 

Might be worth finding a PC-speaker system sub that runs off 12v ... ?

[dinkus 10]

The main problem with the standard door pods is they only allow you to fit a 5.25" speaker in there and they're not very rigid.

 

As the good doctor says - to get bass you need bigger drivers. Sadly, 5.25" and no power isn't going to give you bass. The 6x9s you had before were quite a bit bigger and thus could provide a certain amount of bass and fill in the bottom-end reasonably well.

 

The Lanzars really are just fill speakers from what I gather and should only really be used to give a bit more fill from the back of the car when you've got an otherwise well setup system. They're only 4x6 or somesuch, so really aren't a replacement for the 6x9s.

 

MOSFET is mostly just sales bollocks, but MOSFET amps were quite a lot better quality than normal ones when they were first invented, but these days I think you'll struggle to find many that aren't and it makes very little difference.

 

I always found that even when running Infinity 5000s in the normal front door pods, the head unit would start distorting before it could get much volume or specifically bass out of the speakers.

 

To get some bass, you either need some kind of sub and amp arrangement (didn't you have an Infinity Basslink at some point in one of your cars?) and/or putting some bigger speakers in either the doors or the rear shelf.

 

Wiring an amp in really isn't actually that difficult (see piccyture), it's just a pain in the backside running the wires under the carpet. Provided you've stuck suitably manly power cables in for the amp, you can always start with a cheap little amp and just swap it for a bigger one later on.

 

It's also worth looking into sound deadening. If you buy big sheets of the stuff, it's really not that expensive (a £40 sheet of Skinz did the entire boot and under the rear bench of my C) and you can fit it yourself with just a Stanley knife, hot air gun and wallpaper roller. It's hard work, but it will noticably kill road noise and keep some of your music in.

 

Hah - can you tell I'm bored at work? :lol:

[dinkus 10]

Dammit, you search on ebay for a subwoofer for in-car use and there's nothing with a driver less than 8" in diameter .. hardly subtle ffs.

 

Might be worth finding a PC-speaker system sub that runs off 12v ... ?

 

8" isn't actually too bad... if you think about the fact that he previously had 6" x 9" speakers in the parcel shelf...

 

And don't do the whole PC speaker thing. That's a monster headache that really isn't worth it.

[Neil VR6 0]

It

[Jim 1]

To be honest, i'm toying with the idea of just throwing the 6x9's back in but keeping my uncut parcel shelf for shows as I know the stigma that goes with them. But despite that they provide great bang for buck and i've struggled to find a way to make my stereo sound as good without them!

[Neil VR6 0]

True. They

[vwdeviant 0]

Jim, get some acoustic clear carpet and just cover over the shelf and speakers. Think even Helfrauds do it now!

 

Helps prevent "Brick intrusion" too! :D

[junkie 0]

Told you before you need to buy my JL Audio 300/2 amplifier off me, amps are easy to install and it will give you more of what you are looking for.

 

Im going down the road of ditching my 12" sub and going for a 3 way component set up that has the dedicated MID BASS driver, and thats the kind of bass you like, you like the kick drums you hear and not the low bass you feel.

 

I also will be selling my 2 way Focals, the yellow 1's and the door pods.

 

Even with the 5.25's you should still be able to get a decentish amount of mid bass out of them if you dynamat the doors.

 

Installation is 90% of the sound.

[Philuk 0]

if you just want it to be stealth, as said before, build up the shelf a bit from underneath and screw the speakers in from bottom to top, so they sat under the shelf, then cover over the top of the shelf. :) if pulled tight enough you cant tell there are speakers there

[dinkus 10]

if you just want it to be stealth, as said before, build up the shelf a bit from underneath and screw the speakers in from bottom to top, so they sat under the shelf, then cover over the top of the shelf. :) if pulled tight enough you cant tell there are speakers there

 

Yup, nothing wrong with some 6x9s. My new C has got a tidily made shelf that looks completely standard from on-top, but has some whacking great 6x9s hanging underneath it :)

 

Not sure what's in the doors/dash, but it's all powered off the head unit and doesn't sound tooo bad. Nowhere near as nice as the Audioscape setup in the other car, but significantly cheaper.

[Jim 1]

I have to admit, a stealth shelf with 6x9's would suit me just fine. Not sure how to rescue an already butchered shelf though and turn it into something looking original...? I don't want to cut into my unmolested black parcel shelf!

[dinkus 10]

TBH, you're much better making one out of MDF from scratch. Not only is it a shame to cut up a perfectly good standard shelf, but the shelf isn't really strong enough either.

 

If you've got a nice rigid 18mm or so chunk of MDF there, it won't move at all and the 6x9s can convert their movement into air moving (which you can hear) rather than shelf wobbling (which you can't...apart from perhaps squeaking as it rattles about).

[Jim 1]

Well I have a standard shelf which has been cut for 6x9's (big heavy buggers as well!) and it hasn't bent or anything... if I could somehow do something cunning with that. I'll have to have a think about it. Problem is I have no power tools either (jigsaw, etc) so have no way of making up panels or anything to attach to it!

[dinkus 10]

The standard shelf will take the weight of the speakers, but it'll wobble about when they're on (put your hand on the shelf and you'll feel it moving). All of the movement of the shelf is lost movement of air and thus sound...

 

A big solid MDF shelf won't move, so you'll get better sound/more bass...

[mariojoshi 1]

Oldschool it with a coping saw Jim!

[DEL VR6 0]

Good day Jimbo. Long time mate!

 

You are more than welcome to have a listen to the set up i have in my VR anytime.

 

I have a subwoofer in the boot which is ugly and takes up boot space so for those reasons i dislike it. However... It sounds absolutely brilliant and i can blast the music i like to listen to now and get something out of the music. Also, it was NOT expensive and has its own built in amp so there was very little involved in fitting and labour etc. If the boot space is needed it can be very simply unplugged and removed.

 

This leaves the head unit to power the speakers. I have 6x9's on a standard rear shelf, standard crappy ones in the front doors and dash (and they are crappy and rubbish) and have added some little tweaters on the top of the dashboard.

 

I bought the rear shelf with kenwood speakers from Bobby Shergill for a silly amount from a car he was breaking at the time, leaving me with the original shelf intact and uncut etc.

 

Dont rush what you do cos you will end up with a load of bits you just regret buying. (I know this from past experience).

 

As i say, anytime you wanna have a listen (and a blast in the VR6!) let me know.

[dinkus 10]

Word 8) :lol: