...and the new Golf R32 is... the R20?

[jazzdevil 0]

Briefly flicked through an article in Auto Express (yeah, yeah, there was little else to peruse :ignore:) at lunchtime, featuring a splash about the MkVI Golf R20 due in 2010 when the R32 name and 3.2 engine are consigned to the great VW scrapheap.

 

The write up suggest it'll be a tuned 2.0l unit kicking out 270bhp, allegedly through an A3-pilfered 4wd system. The new slightly-less-imposing-sounding Goof will hit 60 in the low-mid 5sec range and be electronically limited to 155mph. :nono:

 

(stolen from worldcarfans.com)

The exterior will carry over many of the new GTI's styling traits but should also include more aggressive front and rear ends and a center mounted dual exhaust. Initially the R20 will be offered only in three-door hatchback form but a five-door model could eventually be offered down the road.

 

Volkswagen will officially debut the new Golf R20 on May 21 at the ADAC 24-hour race at Germany's Nürburgring racing circuit and European sales will start later this year.

 

I can't find the same pics on the wide world of web, but 'borrowed' these artist impression shots from another forum...

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

thats sad, no more V6's, question is what will insire someone to buy an 'R20' when all it is is a beefed up GTi? i'd rather go buy a normal Gti mk6 and build my own better version which would probably be cheaper in the ££££ per HP stakes.

 

VW has become very boring and is losing the plot and its heritage. There is nothing in the current range of VW's that i would buy if i had £30k to spend, i'd be more tempted to go elsewhere, maybe to BMW or even a ford to get some thrills :ignore:

[mrbeige 0]

thats sad, no more V6's, question is what will insire someone to buy an 'R20' when all it is is a beefed up GTi? i'd rather go buy a normal Gti mk6 and build my own better version which would probably be cheaper in the ££££ per HP stakes.

 

VW has become very boring and is losing the plot and its heritage. There is nothing in the current range of VW's that i would buy if i had £30k to spend, i'd be more tempted to go elsewhere, maybe to BMW or even a ford to get some thrills :ignore:

Indeed! Still, it looks nice!

[Andy665 0]

The great gods of emissions and sales (or lack of) is whats killed any V6 version of the Mk6 - as a four pot the R20 might not sound as nice as a V6 but will almost certainly be better balanced in terms of handling.

 

As it will basically be using the drivetrain of the S3 it has got to be cheaper than that and the S3 (current model) is highly regarded as a drivers car

[Sonicriot13 0]

I don't really care how many cylinders it has. I'm just glad that in the midst of all this financial collapse VW are still even contemplating a performance golf above the GTi.

[skinnyman9000 0]

Pretty sure there is no confirmation from VW about this, the R20 is just what Autoexress THINK might be made. The front bumper is clearly off an audi too.

 

Also, i know its going to be running 270BHP, but low 5 sounds a bit 'over the top' fast to me

[rajarella 0]

The current s3 is a 2.0 TFSI kicking out just under 270 bhp and that has a 0 - 60 of 5.5 (parkers) so low 5's is certainly achievable especially if it does have the 4wd from the s3.

 

So basically if it has the same performance and driver satisfaction as the new s3 but costs a couple of grand less I reckon it could be a winner :clap:

 

Just my opinion of course! 8)

[VAG-hag 0]

looks very nice & will no doubt go well but as said above its a shame that the V6s are being binned :(

 

I had heard that this was to be & all thanks to emissions :gag:

[Leonard 0]

I wouldnt mind if they lost the V6, had a 280-300bhp 2.0 turbo and made it a lightweight, lopping at least 100kg off the std Gti :luvlove:

[KipVR 1]

It's a real shame they are ditching the V6's just when some nice new models come out, seems they just cant get the body/engine combos in the right place at the right time !!

 

The Sciriocco would have sold out if they had given it a 3.6, 4wd and launched 3 years ago.......But then no one would have bought an S3...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The great gods of emissions and sales (or lack of) is whats killed any V6 version of the Mk6

 

Nothing to do with emissions, but rather reducing vehicle production cost.

 

What's cheaper to make, a V6 or a 4 cylinder? A 4 cylinder, which let's not forget, has been around since 1973.

 

If emissions were a genuine reason, it's bad PR to replace a thirsty V6 engine with a thirstier 2.0 turbo engine, which still has to lug around 300kg of dead weight (the haldex kit) 95% of the time.

 

The MK6's target from the start was to be more like the Ford Focus - cheaper, easier and faster to build. We were warned by VW's financial director some time ago that the MK6 would have fewer engine choices than the MK5, just a shame they chose to axe the most charismatic engine they've ever made.

 

as a four pot the R20 might not sound as nice as a V6 but will almost certainly be better balanced.

 

Only because it has counter rotating balancer shafts, but it's still not that great an engine. Still has a thin, hollow, dull exhaust note like the 1.8T.

 

I feel VW are short changing loyal customers with the MK6 and they'll walk into rival show rooms....

[davidwort 0]

...

I feel VW are short changing loyal customers with the MK6 and they'll walk into rival show rooms....

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of the VR6 or V6 24V, but the Audi TT did pretty well (sales-wise) for most of it's life with only the dull 1.8T engines, the 3.2 was only added to the line up to help prop up sales of the mk1 TT before the mk2 was launched.

 

The fact that most of these cars are bought as fleet vehicles anyway means that tax bands and emissions are more and more important and that most buyers select the cars on looks, image, options and price, unfortunately not on engine note, in fact I'd bet a fair few are bought without the new owner ever having driven or heard the engine at all.

 

The 2L FSI turbo engines seem to achieve pretty good EU fuel consumption figures too, hard to match with a NA 6 I'd have thought.

[horney 0]

Rumour has it that future generationso f the BMW M3 are going to moving in the direction of less pots and a big turbo. It's the world we live in now. VW if anything are the first ones out of the blocks making decent performance cars for the masses that will be cheaper to run but no less fun. Massive V engines with supercharges etc will die off in anything smaller than big luxo barges over the next few years. There just isn't the market for them anymore. This is clearly shown by the fact that there are still loads of MKV R32's floating about unregistered and heavily discounted and don't even mention the Passat R36. I'd be surprised if they've sold into double figures of those yet.

 

Nick

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The 2L FSI turbo engines seem to achieve pretty good EU fuel consumption figures too, hard to match with a NA 6 I'd have thought.

 

Sorry, but a lot of manufacturer's MPG claims are complete BS.

 

My missus bog standard 1.8T Polo uses more fuel than VW claim.

 

My mate's daily driven MK5 Edition 30, averages 30mpg. That is only 230hp. The same engine with a bigger turbo being fitted to the MK6, and dragging 300kg more weight, will struggle to average 25mpg I predict, which is 1mpg worse than the R32's average.

[davidwort 0]

The 2L FSI turbo engines seem to achieve pretty good EU fuel consumption figures too, hard to match with a NA 6 I'd have thought.

 

Sorry, but a lot of manufacturer's MPG claims are complete BS.

 

My missus bog standard 1.8T Polo uses more fuel than VW claim.

 

My mate's daily driven MK5 Edition 30, averages 30mpg. That is only 230hp. The same engine with a bigger turbo being fitted to the MK6, and dragging 300kg more weight, will struggle to average 25mpg I predict, which is 1mpg worse than the R32's average.

 

All I know is the EU tests get the 2L turbos into a fairly reasonable tax band and Jim certainly got good mpg on the Scirocco over 1000 miles through Germany. Unfortunately it's not about real world, but the EU tests, and the manufacturers can easily slip them a 'suitably mapped' turbo I bet!

[Jim 2]

Indeed.. the Rocco did pretty good on fuel to be honest - approx 37MPG on longer runs, with two people and loaded up with crap :)

[Andy665 0]

Surely Its purely a simple matter of economics.

 

Whilst it would be nice to be think that Volkswagen would produce a niche car to satisfy the desires of enthusiasts and to act as a halo model and return little or no profit in doing so the sad fact is that car makers have long since stopped being run by engineers and are now run by accountants.

 

A man in a grey suit has sat in a windowless office and number crunched and determined that the numbers don't add up to make a V6 Golf viable any more. Furthermore I'm sure that "extensive market research" has proven that customers are far more likely to buy a tweaked 2.0TFSi engined Golf than they are a V6 - we all know that you can make numbers tell whatever story you want them to

 

Having spent time with "Product Managers" with various manufacturers over the years its genuinely frightening seeing the power that these people have in terms of determining what does and does not make production.

[jazzdevil 0]

...and don't even mention the Passat R36. I'd be surprised if they've sold into double figures of those yet.

 

...they're going to be a bargain when they roll around to the 2nd hand market, like an S4 without the badge premium 8)

[Jim 2]

They're already fairly cheap given the spec.. brand new ones with DSG and lots of toys can be had for £23k!

[skinnyman9000 0]

I know this is COMPLETELY different, but dont forget that VW manufactured the veyron with massive losses, so i think in terms of 'improving the company image' etc, why wouldnt it make financial sense to manufacture a balls out car that barely breaks even, yet can have a knock on effect for the rest of the brand?

 

As time passes the only cars that are remembered are the top of the range models, so why not make that as balls out a possible? 99% of non corrado fans always ask "is it the VR6?", the only Capri's people want are the V6 models, the only old mk1's people remember are the GTI's etc etc.

 

Although to be perfectly honest, if i could choose between a 270BHP 4pot, and a 260BHP 6pot, i'd go for the 4 pot. Simply because you get the decent mpg when town driving, and that instant turbo power when needed.

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

agree with the above, all it really is is another trim level...a GTi 'sport' so to speak. Pointless, and why can they make a Passat R36 which there is hardly any market for and yet they cant make an R36 'rocco or Golf ? where was the market research in that one? same place as the the phaeton, not existant :cuckoo:

 

maybe i should become head of market research for VW, I'll be a lot cheaper than what they are paying at the moment, and with that extra money can bring back VW from the state its in at the moment, by putting good, desirable cars back on the roads that have a bit of soul... :?