Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 OK, here's the B&Q, You Can Do It, DIY Turbo guide :D Sorry, but it's basically a cut and paste from another forum. It would take me too long to go through all the pics over the last 4 years and do a new write up! It starts from the beginning in October 2006 with the head spacer + stock management + begi fuel riser, through to the current spec forged piston, standaloned beasty! Seriously guys, it's not difficult doing a turbo install :D. I did it all myself with a modest tool kit, except the welding and the block / head builds. You just mock up the bits that need welding, tape them together and drop em off to a welder! Simples :D Looking back, the stock engine with a spacer and BEGI was bloody awesome and cheap to do. Which ever path you take, you seriously need a turbo in your life :D Anyway, hope it's of interest. Enjoy! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I started my turbo install this week, during the evenings. Turbos are starting to become more popular now, especially as the dollar is so weak at the moment. It would be rude not to capitalise on that :) I've chosen to use parts based on recommendations from Bill Schimmel, to give a punchy road car with good, daily driving manners. Big shout to ibiVR for all his advice and support and also for supplying me the manifold and spacer :) So here is the bunch of parts I'm using:- Schimmel intercooler system, Innovative Products LC-1 Wideband kit, ARP rod and head bolts, TIAL 38mm wastegate, 4" alloy MAF, 440 injectors, NGK race plugs etc etc And these babies, ibiVR manifold and Garrett GT30R turbo:- Could have gone for a GT35R, but the 30R is good enough for the kind of power delivery I want. I am seriously impressed with Schimmel's pricing, service and quality.... Here's the inside of the chargecooler, check the welding quality...and it weighs almost nothing! 0.25psi boost loss, and that is a major anti-lag factor, and superb cooling performance. The key to the Schimmel's chargecooler performance is the size of the tank (3 gallons), huge water pump and the big old prerad. The system supports up to 700hp. The tank even has a cage around the pump output to stop the ice cubes being sucked in!! Yes, ice cubes! Popular addition to chargecoolers in the states to get the best from the 1/4 runs! OK, so that's the background, here's the progress so far:- Before taking the head off, get cylinder 1 on TDC. To do that, take plug no 1 out and see if it's at the top of it's bore. If it is, or thereabouts, align the timing marks on the crank pulley, thusly:- If you have the VW cam tool, that should slot in freely. if not, just use a bit of metal plate that's laying around. Both cam lobes on 1 should be at rest, both valves closed. That's the engine timed, now strip the car!! Front will have to come off anyway for the intercooler / prerad install, plus it makes installing the turbo oil feed and schimmel intake manifold (if applicable) a whole lot easier. Strip off head now that you've timed the engine too, and hang chains out of the way. You might need an assistant to hold a 24mm spanner on the cams whilst you crack off the 15mm sprocket bolts. They're seriously tight. If you're HeMan like me (LOL!) then you can manage it on your own. Next up, install your ARP conrod bolts. So the sump will have to come off for that (again, has to anyway for the turbo oil return) and it has to be one of the most tedious jobs known to man! If you're not replacing the bearings, just do the bolts one at a time and follow the ARP instructions on torquing them up. Leave the sump off for now. After you've cleaned up the head and block faces, it's time to install the spacer gasket. If you use a Schimmel or EIP one, just whack it on and then screw the ARPs in. Make sure the threads are fully cleaned out first and note the different bolt heights and where they go. The 3 long ones go at the front. If you use one that needs seperate layers adding, then the VW metal gasket will be needed and you strip it down (break the brass rivets at each corner), bin the middle layer and sandwich the spacer with the two remaining top and bottom layers. Lower the head on carefully and be careful not to bind it on the studs. Torque up the bolts in this sequence and final torque is 75lb/ft. Again, follow the ARP instructions. Unfortunately, during these steps I noticed my block and head are pretty shabby. But every cloud has a silver lining, so I now have a 2967cc engine (83.5mm JE forged pistons) under way. The current lump will be used for setup and testing. Looking tired, but to be fair I've seen a lot worse!!! Head is not bad, but it's showing bad guide wear already after a rebuild 50K ago!! Oh well, I guess that's on the list then too. So that's it for the time being. Can only manage a few evenings a week on it, but the next install will see the turbo etc going on. I hope it inspires some of you to get your wallets out! It's not difficult and it's not that expensive either, comparable to supercharging, but with a lot more power and torque ;) OK, where were we? Oh yes, once you've fitted the head you need to refit the chain sprockets and chain. Double check the timing marks are at TDC and then offer up the sprockets. I normally put the rear one on first, wrap the chain round it and then fudge the front sprocket around until it keys into the cam slot. It's a mare the first time you do it, but you'll soon get the hang. When the sprockets are on, the chain span between them should be saggy. When you tighten in the tensioning bolt afterwards, the sag should be taken up and leave you with no more than a few mm of deflection, it should NOT be immensely tight, if it is, recheck the timing and start again. Once fitted and not confident you've done it right, spin the engine round on the crank (27mm socket) several times and recheck the timing. Remember it's a 4 stroke engine, so you might need to spin it 4 times to get no 1 in the right place again ;) Those of you that know this can ignore :-) Thusly:- Once you're happy with that, you now need to build up the turbo/manifold. Make sure your wastegate outlet is pointing in the right direction (i.e towards the front pipe) and if you've got a strut brace, fit the wastegate after you've fitted the manifold as you won't get it through the gap. It's a good idea to adjust the angle of the compressor housing at this stage too. And she's in. It's a heavy assembly, so take care when offering it up to the studs as you can easily bend them, which will make fitment a pain in the butt. It's pretty tight down there, but just enough room ;-) Before you put the inlet manifold on, don't forget to plumb in the oil feed adapter. I got this tiny one from Schimmel, most are a lot bigger, but you get the idea. Screw it into the filter housing in place of the temp sender, then screw both the temp sender and feed line into the adapter and then fasten the other end to the turbo. Then all that remains where the engine is concerned is to build it all back up again. In my example I'm using the schimmel manifold, which makes pipework for the intercooler hugely easier. To be honest i'm not sure what people with the stock intake manifolds do, but it'll be a lot of pipework involved. To try and keep underbonnet temps under control, I modified the stock heat sheild to fit over the turbo manifold and I also heat sheilded the heater matrix coolant hose as it's very close to the exhaust. As you can see, the front pipe is going to be fun with the gear cables in the way. Not quite sure what I'm going to do there. Tom?!? OK, a few more piccies to prove I haven't been sitting on my arse, LOL! In between brief flirtations of downpipe manufacture, I've fitted the chargecooler heat exchanger. This beasty was custom made by Setrab for the Corrado's lower bumper grille - the core is exactly the same width as the grille, awesome :-) This part was time consuming. Bumper on and off 20 times for alignment, a slight mod to the front panel and a little bit of cutting of the bumper iron with an angle grinder. All easy stuff, but time consuming! Here's what it looks like with the bumper on. It's totally invisible externally unless you look for it. Minimal changes to the car structurally, just how I like it - pure stealth! Here is the front pipe shape. Taped up in this pic, but is now welded up. Just the 3" flex to weld on and it's pretty much done. It's made from 2 x 1D tight 90s and a 30 degree elbow, all from Jetex. Loads of clearance A shot of the angles required off the turbo This is the most expensive nappy in history. One GT30R blanket. Helps reduce under bonnet temps considerably. It's basically the same stuff used to lag nucleur reactors!!! Schimmel stage 1 organic clutch. Good for 350whp. Always good to under clutch to hp to allow a little slip rather than shredding 3rd gear! This weekend I hope to get all the intercooler pipework sorted and the water tank installed. The front pipe should be completed next week and then it's ready to fire up. I'm afraid my install is not a budget one, sorry guys :-( We all love a bargain but this is a strictly no compromise install which has to be 100% daily reliable. Including the 3.0 engine Stealth are currently building for me, expenditure so far is around £6000. You can do this for under £3.5K easily, no question, but I'm afraid I'm too much of a perfectionist! I like to over engineer my projects to cope with unforseen circumstances and I'm hoping to get at least 80K out of my 3.0. OK chaps, a few more updates.... The down pipe is almost done. Just the lambda bosses and wastegate pipes to do and that's pretty much it. With the Lambdas (one for ECU, one for Wideband A/F) I've moved them 20" away from the turbo to prevent them from overheating. 12" is the minimum really, but you can get lambda heatsinks if you can't move them away far enough. I've basically done one on each side of the pipe. To help my welder and keep the boss in the right place, I shaped the bosses to the pipe shape. More of the downpipe.... This was my original plan with the Lambdas, but the one closest to the turbo was too close, so did it the aforementioned way instead. I've also sorted the intake. I used a 45 degree 4" elbow and then a 4" to 3" reducer to mate up the stock MAF etc. I will only be running 8psi initially during testing, so the standard MAF should cope. As you can see, the intake hose is damn close to the manifold.... So I made this.... To wrap around it.... It's easily removable thanks to the snap fasteners. You can get those from sewing shops for £4 including the fitting tool. You can't help but notice I've probably gone a bit OTT with the heat sheilding, but I'm not taking any chances!! Intake clearance is pretty good overall. I don't like abrasion related issues!! Good clearance here too, at least an inch. I've also made a start on the boost pipes. If I didn't know better, I'd say the factory heatshield was purpose made for turbos! After struggling to find some black tubing in 63mm, I eventually found these steel table legs in B&Q which are perfect, LOL! :) I'll keep you posted.... She's finally coming together :-p Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 Okey dokey, a few more updates.... The wastegate dump is figured out. I know what you're thinking and I agree, it's less than ideal, but it's the best I could do for the time being. That's now gone off to the welder and that's it for the exhaust. I'll lag it up this week and mate it up to the exhaust. The intercooler is in. It just hangs there to allow movement as the engine rocks. I've popped a bit of spare samco under it just in case. Plenty of fore and aft rocking space. Boost loss through that intercooler is 0.25 psi and with such a short path and the SRI aswell, it's going to have a pretty good throttle response. I've relocated the fan controller and PAS bottle. The screen wash tank is going in the boot with the intercooler tank and battery. When it's running how I want, I will get the boost pipes made up in one peice to reduce the amount of connections, but it's solid enough now. Next to the fan controller is a twin piston BOV, but I'm changing that for a recirc as I don't want jerky gearchanges. When I eventually go to a MAP sensor, I can then reinstate the BOV. All that's left to do now is:- Make false boot floor Fit intercooler water tank, battery and screen washer tank Run water lines under car Wire in boost gauge and Wideband controller (wires already through bulkhead though) Finish off fuel rail connections Fit downpipe to exhaust And a couple of other small bits and bobs. I am hoping to get all that done this week and fingers crossed, I can bring her up on Sunday to the Stealth Rolling road day. I'm quite pleased with how it's going, but being a natural worrier, I'm a bit ambivalent about it too. i.e. Will it run? Will things leak? Will I blow it up.... etc etc! It's only got to last 180 miles to get to Stealth and then they can drop the 3.0 litre in and map it with the 440s and 4" maf housing! Project complete. The latest updates:- The exhaust got finished off OK in the end, so that's all lagged and fitted. The turbo nappy is on too and both lambdas in and hooked up. Here's the view from under the car. It's in sections deliberately to allow the addition of a 3" cat a later date, which is the V banded one. The other one is the 3" - 2.5" - 2.25" reducer to mate up to the SuperSprint. That will all be replaced with 2.5" soon. I also got round to running the waterlines from the front rad to the boot. These next shots are only really applicable if you're planning on the Schimmel (or similar) air-water intercooler.... First I got some hole cutters and worked out the best place to avoid the exhaust and axle. Under the passenger rear seat seemed perfect. Far enough away from the exhaust.... ....and brings the lines down perfectly to tie to the brake lines. I rigged up a temporary false floor for testing purposes. The little braille battery is laid flat underneath and accessible for jump starting etc. It will all be replaced eventually with more permanent fixtures and fittings. Screen wash relocated to boot aswell and works just fine :-) So my little project is complete and currently running 8 psi for testing. It's superb, pulls as smooth as you like all the way round and the boost is instaneous and completely addictive. Even with 8psi it would destroy my old Supercharger, such is the immediate and chunky torque......god only knows what it's going to be like 3.0 running 15-20psi, sweet jesus! :-) The reason it's so lag free is partly due to the Schimmel intercooler, it only drops 0.25psi, and the Schimmel short intake. I've not experienced throttle response like it! The boost just whips round from seeminlgy no revs to 8psi instantly, then the WG opens and poops the party. The intercooler is madness, after 30 mins blasting, there was condensation on the casing and it was stone cold to touch, as was the intake, thanks to the oversized rad and mahooosive pump from a US V8. So here it is, a bit starship enterprise under there, but it paid off because underbonnet temps are negligable, thanks also to the nappy which is very effective. Next - This 3 litre baby and more boost :-) DTA kit.... MUCH cheaper from the US. Cheers Tom. Yeah it's the 3.0. Vince said it's not quite as punchy initially as the 2.9 as the turbo is having to fill a 106cc bigger hole and it's still tight, but once it's fully loosened up and I fit a more restrictive throttle for the short intake, I should get some urgency back in the lower rpms again, but yeah, it's very progressive. The torque curve is like table top mountain :-) Sorry about broadcasting the manifold prob, I figured a few of us are using them and wanted them to check it first to avoid the issue I had. I guessed they're all the same so didn't mention it to you first, but it's sortable without the need to replace it. No offense intended, it's a great manifold and Stealth commmented on it's robustness and ability to expel waste gases compared to a lot of lesser ones they've seen in their time. How about this for some marshmallow toasting ability? Time to get the jacket back on I guess, but I keep hearing tales of GT housings cracking when using them. Have you heard of this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 Yeah, tight over the rear axle! Few updates... 3.0 in, but obviously doesn't look any different to the 2.9, LOL! There are few changes to spot though.... TIAL 50.5mm BOV replaces 25mm Forge Motorsport one. New custom made oil line rerouted to avoid another fire! BMC in place of K&N filter BEGI FRP gone and replaced with SX 1:1 fuel riser MAF deleted 440cc genesis injectors in Turbosmart boost control valve in and locked to 11psi I'm sure it'll change many times over but for now, it's like this....messy, but functional ;-) DTA tucked up in the Glovebox. Currently tuned at a really basic level, not even running lambda. Need to start getting my money's worth out of this box and use some of it's tricks. And this mod I rather like......Dynotune EGT display installed under disused portion of the rev counter. I haven't run the car for over a week, so I'm not sure how accurate it is, but the ambient temp of 6 degrees is spot on, so looks encouraging.... When does it ever end?! Worth it though.....well worth it.....seeing the look on Evo 6 drivers' faces :-) Thought I'd wake this thread up again. I've fixed all the dead image links, so it's a proper guide (of sorts) again! I'll throw in some updates too whilst I'm here as it's been a while! When my 2.9 and a bit block was built, I decided to return the oil to the block, rather than the sump. It's a more direct, shorter path back and is above the driveshaft level, so acres of clearance. Here's how you do it. Start of with a 23/32" drill and you'll need a 1/2" pipe tap to cut the thread. The fitting is a 1/2" NPT to -10 JIC/AN 45 degree. Life in the turbo lane isn't without it's faults. I've had my fair share of bad luck!! First casualty was the JE pistoned block. No 6 piston scratched it's bore and wrote the whole lump off. So the second attempt used Wossner pistons and was built by Stealth. I've done around 20K on this second engine and here's how it looked recently.....perfect! Second casualty was the turbo. The original GT30 I started out with ingested some debris and damaged the compressor wheel. What and how is still a mystery to this day. Good excuse to upgrade to a GT35R though :-) Mr 35 on the left, and Mr 30 on the right for comparison.... Then I had a weird problem with the tappets not turning in their bores, which wrecked them and the cams :-( Still, nevermind, good excuse for more upgrades.... Schimmel big valve head and 263 cams :-) The cams on their own are superb, but together with the head, bloomin awesome!! Highly recommended. Mpre torque and power everywhere. So yeah, then I started playing with various toys to make it run a bit better.... MSD coils... Schimmel throttle elbow... Audi 1.8T air intake sensor (instant update) in custom stealth throttle elbow.... Stock regulator holder..... And so it continues really. It's an endless cycle of experimentation and constant development and here's how the car looks as of July 08.... And the most recent dyno plots from December 07.... Power.... Torque... Tis all for now :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 Got some updates..... New standalone installed with a fresh wiring loom, made by yours truly :-) Took ages and my back kills! It's a DTA S80 and it really is a nice piece of kit. Software and hardware both excellent and it runs like stock, well, better than stock actually. I binned the GM MAP sensor and went for an AEM 3.5 bar pressure transducer and it's super smooth. Just as responsive and smooth as mass air, but without the hassles of air flow limitations :-) Got some new rims aswell :-) Driveshaft shop stage 2.9 axles, good for 475whp.....should be enough :-) And I redid the boot arrangements - properly this time, LOL! Just need to make a false floor to cover the remainder of the boot and it's done :-) Few updates. My second Spa manifold is royally f'cked, so that's going in the bin. Cracked right round. For those who want to know why the ATP manifold doesn't fit, here's why, the brake pot gets in the way.... The compressor butts up against the servo hose and loom too, although a smaller turbo won't do that. I'm using a TO4S housing which is pretty big. Not to worry though cos both issues are easy to rectify. Simply take the brake pot off completely and relocate it next to the expansion tank and run hoses over to the master cylinder. Can't see that in this pic, but you can see there's plenty of room once the brake pot's been moved.... Also fitted a new rad with uprated fans. And a MK4 Golf header tank, which is LOADS better than the corrado one!! And I've also rigged up a neat little display to read important engine info. It can display everything the ECU can pump down the serial cable.....manifold pressure, water and air temp, oil pressure and temp, fuel pressure, volts, throttle position, injector duty and pulse width, transient fuelling, cold fuelling percent, air temp compensation percent, you name it, everything! Over the coming weeks I will be showing you how to make a down pipe for the ATP manifold. There's bags more room for it than the SPA manifold, that's for sure!! Did a bit more prep work today. I P clipped the loom and serrvo hose to the bulkhead.... ...which has provided plenty of room for the turbo :-) I also deleted the aux water pump. I observed what it actually does when the engine was off by pulling a couple of hoses, and not a lot is the answer. I know of a few other people who've binned it with no adverse effects. I've decided to try the standard airbox with this install. Looks a lot better than a generic cone! Moving onto Manifold prep work.... I'm using ATP's 38mm to 44mm adapter. The hole in the manifold is pretty small, even for a 38mm, so I gasket matched it. That's better! I made some lock washers and trial fitted the TIAL 44mm. Not much room for a bolt head with that adapter, so you need to shave down some M8 x 25mm bolts..... Next I drilled and tapped a thread for a 1/8 NPT EGT probe.... And the probe slots in (from underneath) like so.... The probe sits about 2" before the turbo and in the middle where all the exhaust ports converge... That's it for now. I'll start on the exhaust next, but I'm waiting on stock for a few 3" angles etc.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 Still waiting on a couple of 3" stainless angles (seems they're in short supply) so I cracked on with the brake resevoir relocation. Using some fittings I had laying around, I chopped off the lugs from the stock resevoir and grafted them on for a factory tight seal. Make sure you use proper hose that's brake fluid resistant. I lagged the hoses in a special abrasion resistant covering in case the turbo contacts them. There's about 2 cm clearance around the turbo for the hoses, which if you have uprated mounts should be plenty.... This was a bit of a ball ache getting the lengths right for clearance and to avoid rubbing related damage. Plus you have to keep the hoses above the Master cylinder level to prevent air locks..... As hard as I tried, I couldn't find a 4 outlet resevoir, so I had to T off the 2 outlets into 4.... And here it is, complete and of course, lagged with heat sleeving for good measure. I'll be using a motorbike resevoir in the wiper area for the clutch.... Now that's sorted, time to crack on with the exhaust....when the bits finally arrive!! OK, sent the first couple of bits of exhaust off to my mate for tigging up. They are a V band ring with tight 3" 90 for the turbo and a 1.75" flex bellow and fitting for the Tial wastegate.... Whilst waiting on those, I thought I'd bolt the turbo on. I used Stage8 locking bolts which seem very nice, only time will tell if they hold the turbo bolts still! I also started making up the oil and water lines. I couldn't get the hardlines I wanted for the water due to supply issues, plus you need an expensive tool to debur and flare the ends to 37 degrees, so I used PTFE lined braided instead, which can handle 230ish deg C, so should be OK. PLEASE do not use rubber hoses, they just harden, perish and then split very quickly! I speak from experience! The turbo will have a jacket on it when I'm done for further protection. I did go hardline on the oil though as it's a critical feed. All the fittings come from speedflow and they flared a metre of -4 hardline for me and fitted the sleeve nuts.... oh and I made a heat shield to protect the brake lines etc. The braided fittings are a peice of cake, no special fittings needed. These are -6 size and here's how you assemble the lines... Unscrew the nut off the end to reveal the sleeve collet thing.... Slide the black nut over the hose and then pick the braiding with a small screwdriver so that it pulls away from the inner liner and trim off the spikey bits, then slide on the collet.... Push the other end of the fitting into the collet and then tighten the two halves together with the appropriate size spanners or a vice.... Top Tip - When cutting the braided hose, wrap it with some masking tape and use a junior hacksaw and the end will be neat and easier to assemble ;-). And here's how the hardline works. You slide your sleeve nuts on first, then flare the ends to 37 degrees. These fittings are expensive and may seem over kill, but trust me, money invested here will save you a lot of grief in the long run :-) My mate's tigging is up to his usual high standards, it really pays knowing someone who can weld :-) In an attempt to modernise the engine and make it better to drive, I've had my Schimmel intake modified to take a Bosch direct to manifold MAP sensor. It's also an air intake sensor too, so makes things neat and compact. I've blocked off the servo outlet on runner 6 as I prefer to take a servo vac feed from the whole plenum. The silver sensor is for my boost gauge... Denso 1220 500cc injectors, the best bar none. These instantly transform the VR6's idle. Totally smooth and rock steady :-) They're from the 2009 Mazda RX8, which I've had adapted to fit a VR6. And here you can see the injector loom I made for the DTA S80, again sleeved in abrasion resistant sleeving :-) .... Stay tuned, more to follow :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 Made a bit more progress.... Downpipe's coming together. This is the shape you're aiming for with the ATP. From the top, I used a tight 90, 30 degree section, then a 90 degree and finally a 3" Ilok flex. All from Jetex. Since it's impossible to fit the flex on the vertical (wastegate gets in the way), next best thing is mounting it at 45 degrees above the front ARB. The pipe to bulkhead gap is bigger than it looks, there's about an inch, which is plenty with uprated engine mounts... Hi temp oil drain hose from ATP. I'm draining back to the block for easier driveshaft clearance. Here's a tip for fitting JIC push hose fittings. I'd get some plastic vice jaws from Speedflow. They hold the fitting tight and protect the delicate anodised finish. Warm the hose in boiling water for a minute and put some fairy liquid on the barbs. The hose will then slide on easily and save you a lot cursing!! Factory air box is a goer. I'm happy with the way the fuel reg and fuel hose fit around it. Just need to find a rubber bellow to fit between the airbox and intake pipe and the job's a good un :-) Even with the big SX regulator, you can still get the airbox lid off for filter changes as if it were a standard engine :-) I kinked the hose 90 degrees under the intake pipe to give a bit of flex when the engine moves back and forth, again, just like the stock hoses ;-) I used stainless hose around there because it's quite close to the manifold. I don't trust rubber and heat when dealing with 5+ bar fuel pressure!. Getting there, slowly, but surely! Few minor updates:- Got the last bit of welding back from my mate last week ago and looking good so far. The wastegate dump pipe is done and he's got that in for welding too, but these are the construction pics. I just used a little piece of straight, a 1.75" flex and a 90 degree. If using the Tial 44mm WG, you'll need 1.75" bore pipe and if you're using the 38mm, you need 1.5" pipe. Once you're happy with your angles and how the dump pipe butts up against the main downpipe, you need to make a hole in the main pipe. I couldn't find a nibbler tool strong enough to cut through stainless for reasonable money, so I had to do it the tedious way. You don't want to know how many drill bits I got through doing this. Motto - don't buy cheap drill bits!! Nice welding isn't it? :-) Then you obviously just file it all out smooth. I finished the fuel lines. I also pulled out the standard plastic lines and run -6 JIC lines front to back. I also did what VW do and use blue hose for return and black for fuel in, just in case someone else works on this car. Airbox is finished. The ATP rubber inlet isn't much use, so I had to make something up with bits of silicon I had laying around and I'm happy with how it all sits. It's too rigid though, so I'll need to find a rubber coupling to ensure the airbox stays still when the engine rocks back. I've looked at an Audi R8's rubber coupling and it might just be do the job, so I'll order one. Should get the next bit of welding back next week sometime hopefully and the downpipe is practically done, just needs a couple of lambda sockets etc. Just the one update. Downpipe is almost complete. My welder's current welding on the lambda boss and the other side of the flexi and it's done! :-) Another minor update. The Audi R8 rubber intake bellow fits like a glove :-) Really happy with how that fits. Not bad for £14! Most of it is over the metal intake pipe, so shouldn't collapse under boost. I've also derestriced the airbox by removing the front and upper snorkels. I wanted to use the upper snorkel but it reduces down to 2.5" inside the box, so a bit restrictive for turbo use. I imported this bracket for the Bosch 044 pump from 034Motorsport which looks nice. I painted the base of it and the pump with smoothrite to stop them corroding over winter. Just a couple more bits of exhaust to weld up and a new boost pipe and it's nearly there :-) I need it back on the road, I miss the acceleration. Every car I drive feels dog slow compared to a VRT! OK, my welder had a spurt of enthusiasm last week and I've managed to make some good progress this weekend. Downpipe lagged, wideband fitted and then thrown onto the car - The ATP heatshield is rubbish, doesn't shield anything and sits too close to the manifold, so I modified it, LOL! Notice also the wastegate fitting. Rubber or silicon vac line just isn't going to last for shit with all that heat, so that and the dump valve are plumbed in with -4 braided teflon. The other benefit of hard line wastegate plumbing is no 'balloon' effect of the line, so it should spike a lot less than normal. Anyway, the shielding looks a bit heath robinson, but rather that than melted ancilleries - All done :-) Just got to plumb in the Bosch 044 and it's ready to fire up! Looks a bit industrial and not a whole lot different from before, but fingers crossed, it'll be a lot more robust this time round! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 A few updates... Middle silencer removed..... ...and replaced with a 3" Cat converter and resonator. The original Setrab chargecooler rad was a tad small I thought, but worked well. I've replaced it with a LHD air con radiator and that's dropped temps a fair bit due to the larger cooling area, plus it all fits neatly being a VW part :-) The flow has slowed down a bit due to the restriction of the rad, but I'll get a beefier pump! Ford Duratec idle valve added, SX fuel reg deleted and stock regulator added plus some minor tidying up :-) To balance the pleasure, I had some pain a couple of weeks ago when some silly woman turned into me as I was overtaking her. Should be getting the wing and wheel sorted through the insurance fairly soon. Roll on winter and some nice cold turbo air! :-) Latest mod... 044 pump holder and 1.5 litre surge tank in one unit. As the pump is submerged in fuel, it reduces noise considerably! More pics to follow when it's fitted to the car. Have ordered some Bosch EV14 550cc injectors too as it's time to turn the boost up :-) http://www.sprayitracing.com/52lb%20Bos ... edance.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 All done. Pretty straight forward to install and noise wise, it's about the same as an old K Jet MK1 or MK2 that's got a tired pump. Can't hear it all when cruising, just a buzz/whine at idle. Loads quieter than the normal mounting method :-) Next on the list is to fit these 550cc Bosch EV14 injectors. Easily the best injectors on the market today... ..and here's why. They atomise right off the tip for a super fine spray :-) And then Racelogic traction control. After last year's winter, it's really needed!! :-) Thanks to Vince we got 10% off! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 After a short while I discovered ATP's uprated oil drain hose isn't so uprated after all. so out with the good old hard line again :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 As it stands currently, 02/10/10. Just had it's winter wax. Cut back with G3, then a layer of Collinite 845, followed by a layer of Collinite Marque D'Elegance. Wheels have had 2 layers of 845 then 2 more layers of Collinite 476. I like Collinite because it's perfect for lazy bastards like me, lasts for ages :D Slightly blurry and pants pic (I'm no David Bailey!!) but the motor in it's current spec. Standard VR6 idle valve is a complete and utter pig to drive with a standalone, but I got it there :D Hats off to the people at Bosch who got it spot on with the factory ECU :salute: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 Check this out for a bargain peeps. Brand new, never used Genuine VW Corrado VR6 Engine loom. Normally £600ish. I got it for £60 :D Not sure what I'm going to do with it yet, but at that price?? Rude not to buy it. Ever wished you could start over with factory fresh wiring? Well now I can :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 For those who wanted technical, it's going to get seriously technical now, because here comes the mapping :clap: I'm running a DTA S80 ECU. The Standard Motronic is better than you will ever know!. IMHO, Bosch hardware is second to none :notworthy: But, for fussy people like me who want FULL control of the tune, there's the standalone market! Unfortunately Motronic is too locked down for my tastes and where forced induction is concerned, I find MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) to be far more robust and reliable than MAF (Mass Air Flow). An Engine ECU is just like any other tool, you just use the right one for the job in hand. ME7 is perfect for boost (TT, R32, 4 Mo et al) but Motronic 2.9 (VR6 OBD1 and 2) is far from it, imo. To get it working with boost involves a number of hardware and software hacks I'm not personally happy with, but each to our own :D But anyway, onto the software settings of standalone land. This is just scratching the surface. If anyone wants more indepth info and / or complete maps, PM me 8) General Engine Settings This is where you tell the ECU your crank type, coil type, rpm limit, etc etc. The basic vital statistics of the engine in other words! Startup fuel (aka Crank fuel) All petrol engines need a good slug of fuel to get it started. Here is where you set it :D These bunch of numbers throw the motor into life just as quick, if not quicker than the stock maps. Water temp compensation Think of this as a choke :wink: Air temp compensation I won't bore you with Boyles law, but the basic rule is for every 10 deg C increase in air temp, oxygen content reduces 3%. 3% less oxygen needs 3% less fuel, but I find the VR6 is quite sensitive to this. Instead I find pulling timing works better. Due to the shared cylinder head design and associated temps, it needs a decent amount of fuel when hot, so I shoved Boyle's law :lol: A normal two head V6 would work better with Boyles law. Main fuel map This is the main RPM v TPS (Throttle Position) fuel map. You can also set it to be RPM against load (MAP) but I'll go into that later. Fuel curves should match torque curves :wink: Manifold Pressure compensations OK, this is load. Load is how hard the engine is working in software terms. It can be measured by air drawn in (MAF) or Manifold pressure (MAP). In other words, the more you open the throttle, the harder the engine is working. Standard Motronic uses MAF, which is basically just a measurement of resistance v air temp. MAF's main advantage is global standardisation. MAF load measuring can work up K2 equally well as down in Death Valley because air drawn in is directly proportional to injector pulse width. And that is precisely what car makers want. They don't want a fuelling method that needs reprogramming to suit the climate and atmospheric conditions. MAF works on a Logarihimic scale. MAP, or Manifold Absolute Pressure, works on a linear scale and is the main load measurement of nearly all standalones. It works just as well, by measuring changes in air pressure (instead of mass) in the manifold. OE cars with MAP as load usually have a second 1 bar MAP sensor to reference atmospheric pressure so that it doesn't run too lean up a mountain, or too rich in below sea level terrains. Standalone managed cars tend to be driven at one sea level, so MAF isn't needed, but if you really want MAF, the likes of Pectel SQ6 and Motec M600 support it - at HUGE cost. But honestly, it makes no odds. The engine itself doesn't give a schitt, so long as it gets the fuel it needs. One isn't better than the other, just two different ways to skin a cat :D Anyway, here is the MAP compensation..... look up Kilo Pascals on Google if you don't understand it :D I have got a few MAP as load maps, but I find they are no more responsive than TPS v RPM. Keep it simple IMO. Ignition Advance Ideally this needs to be set on a dyno. Chiefly because ignition advance gets to a point where advancing it achieves nothing. There's no point in running mega advance if all it does is max out the knock sensors. But these settings work beautifully with the VR6 :D Again, where boost is concerned, timing needs to come down in boost to prevent det. Det, or Detonation / pinking, is where the fuel explodes instead of burning in a controlled manner. Det is what puts holes in pistons! Battery Compensations Because battery voltage affects injector and coil performance, we have to alter the inj PW and Coil dwell accordingly so that when fans kick in or headlights are switched on, the engine doesn't run lean. E85 Ethanol E85 (15% Petrol, 85% crop derived ethanol) is the future of petrol engines. Here are the compensations required to run E85 and any concentration of E85 and petrol. Sequential Injection Here are the Seq settings. Sequential fires the injectors in sequence with firing order, so 1, 5 , 6, 3, 4, 2. On part throttle and idle, this is far more efficient than batch fire (continuous injection like 16Vs). Once you get to full throttle and high rpm, the intake valves are opening and closing far faster than any injector can keep up with, so the DTA also includes a full 3D Injection Angle table, which I won't go into here :D . This is what the cam sensor is for on the stock engine and why you lose so much power when the cam sensor is dead and when the intermediate shaft timing is screwed up. Throttle Transients Think of TT as a flick of fuel to fill in for a sudden opening of the throttle. Just like carbs from the good old days, injectors need time to open and close and opening the throttle quickly can cause a lean condition. The DTA includes hot and cold tip in to fine tune these situations! Closed Loop Lambda control What about lambda control? I here you cry. Well, the DTA has that covered too and supports both narrow and wide band and up to 30hz refresh rate, which is plenty fast enough. All the over run and some of the idle parameters are set here too, aswell as a log of fuel corrections. Full lambda targetting too :D You feel your engine runs better at specific AFRs than stock, well, here's where you set that!! Idle control Believe it or not, a stable idle speed is one of the most difficult areas to tune on a petrol engine. On a diesel it's p1ss easy as they have no throttle. RPM on a diesel is directly proportional to air drawn in and fuel metered. It's very different with petrol engines! I managed to get the stock VR6 idle valve to work with the DTA and here are the settings. You also need a 1N004 diode across + and - of the idle valve and 80% max PWM, 30% minimum. Idle 20x14 PWM table.... As I say, this is just the tip of the ice berg. Mapping is not difficult. If you want any advice or on site help with standalones, PM me :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrbeige 0 Posted October 2, 2010 You've junked the Ford stab valve then? I thought it worked better than the VW one, or was it just easier to map at first? Would it be possible to do away with the ISV and use a throttle with an adjustable end stop like the OBD2 one? Sent from my HTC Desire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
junkie 0 Posted October 2, 2010 Still finding all this a little too basic still keV maybe a little more indepth for us please. Sent from my iPhone 3GS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 You've junked the Ford stab valve then? I thought it worked better than the VW one, or was it just easier to map at first? Would it be possible to do away with the ISV and use a throttle with an adjustable end stop like the OBD2 one? Sent from my HTC Desire Yeah that Ford valve was from "Worldcarparts.com" which = Chinese fake last 3 months crap!! I should have known better really, but as I mentioned earlier, Bosch hardware is second to none, honestly. The VAG idle valve is as bullet proof as they come, but just needs careful PWM driving. The VR idle valve has massive flow. Enough for a 3000rpm idle at 80% duty :shock: With that much flow, you need to be careful with the PWMs but I can see why VW used it. Catch the idle early at 3500rpm and lower it gently to 680rpm. If you leave it too late to catch the falling rpm, it'll drop below 500rpm and the ecu will treat that as a cranking condition and over fuel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 Still finding all this a little too basic still keV maybe a little more indepth for us please. Sent from my iPhone 3GS If this is basic mate, then you're all set to install and map your own VRT chap. Let me know how you get on :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
junkie 0 Posted October 2, 2010 I know lol seriously thinking VRT time. Any spare bits you need rid of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 I know lol seriously thinking VRT time. Any spare bits you need rid of. Dude, it's definitely the time of your life where 3.0 turbo action is needed :lol: I have a few bits laying around that might help :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
junkie 0 Posted October 2, 2010 I need vr subframe, steering rack, steering knuckle, brakes of awesome quality, driveshafts, gearbox, suspension, wheels, engine, turbo, exhaust, management, loom, seats, I did keep my steering wheel so I'm sorted there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Langdon 0 Posted October 2, 2010 wow alot of time and efforts gone in to your car Kev and you've had more wheels than my missus has had shoes!! :norty: got to ask Kev i see you had 268 what they like compared to the 263's and why you got a golf vr6 throttle body whats the advantage over the rado one, all the best, keep up the good work chris :notworthy: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mawrick 0 Posted October 2, 2010 If I ever going turbo (maybe on a second C project) I know where I will point my guns.....lol.... Some serious work going into this - Love it!....:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 2, 2010 i see you had 268 what they like compared to the 263's and why you got a golf vr6 throttle body whats the advantage over the rado one, Hi mate, SP 263s are a lot nicer than Schrick 268s imo. The 268s used to cause a lumpy idle when the engine was hot but the 263s are spot on at any temp. Can't praise them enough. Schimmel clearly spent a lot of time fine tuning them! Golf throttle has softer springs than the Corrado TB, a lot nicer on the pedal at idle and low rpms :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 3, 2010 And whilst I'm in the mood for bigging myself up..... :D Here's my old 16V MK2 turbo. It was a beast :D I also designed the Corrado Sub box and amp panel.... Not to mention the first to go OBD2, first to do a 3rd Brake light and so on.... And first to go eccentric top plates... Just call me Mr Innovator :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mawrick 0 Posted October 3, 2010 Mr innovator! :) lol....:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrbeige 0 Posted October 3, 2010 How does the DTA cope with other loading on the engine? Say for example when the fans kick in, do the engine revs dip? IIRC, the DTA can run the fans directly as a PWM output? Sent from my HTC Desire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
