The Baconator's latest victim

[coullstar 0]

Im pretty sure Ive seen a Mk2 Golf with this engine and the airbox on the LHS. It was quite neat but cant remember where I saw it.

[KADVR6 0]

Im pretty sure Ive seen a Mk2 Golf with this engine and the airbox on the LHS. It was quite neat but cant remember where I saw it.

 

yeh me also mate, think it was in a pvw/golf + mag a few months back,

[coullstar 0]

I wouldnt have seen it there, havent bought a VW mag in about 10years now. Should be fairly simple but my be a convoluted route, right over the downpipes and will be a tight squeeze if the turbine is fitted. As you have a relocated battery it shouldnt be too bad using RHS but the LHS will look bare.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

A guy has done it on his Corrado on the R32OC, but he's using a BMC CDA. I don't really want to pay £200 for a bit of cotton in a posh tube tbh, but he basically did a 180 coming out of the throttle and fed the intake round the back and into the filter. I'm not sure what effect such a long intake tract would have on the torque curve, but it would look good :D

 

I'm putting my battery back in the stock location Graeme. You may have noticed the screenwash and PAS bottles have returned also :D When I did the VRT install I deliberately didn't cut the car up so that I could put things back to stock again :D I don't like the idea of the bareness on one side either!

 

Cheers Steve. I'm not using a MAF so I'll have to fit an intake temp sensor somewhere!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I've been on the look out for a cheap MK4 R32 fuel rail but there's just nothing on ebay at the moment, so I had to bite the bullet and buy one from VW. £114 inc VAT with discount.... up from £65 a couple of years ago, so VW are clearly on a parts price hiking excercise!!

 

Why not use the MK5 rail? I was going to initially to keep costs down, just need a cheap 3 port fuel reg, but then I remembered the silly fuel evaporation issues I had with my VRT with a returnless rail. In the MK5 VW use a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) speed controlled pump instead of a rail mounted FPR. So when you cruise along the pump speed is slow, on over-run it's practically stopped and foot-to-the-floor you get full speed and pressure. You can get a PWM pump in the aftermarket which my ECU can run, but it all boils down to cost. A MK4 rail and 4 bar fpr comes in way cheaper!!

 

So anyway, for those thinking "What the frig is he waffling about?", MK5 rail on top, MK4 rail fitted to the head....

 

 

....and of course, we must align the injectors correctly since they are a split spray injector pattern. Many a 1.8T modder has come a cropper with that :D Intake ports are bloody massive compared to the 12V's. This is gonna make one heck of a turbo engine.

 

 

Oh and whilst the Alternator is in shot there, it's a 140A jobbie, which if you're using the 4motion alternator bracket for the VR pas pump, needs clearancing. And still on the subject of alts, these big fellas have a one way slipper clutch so that suddent throttle closures don't throw the belt. Clever stuff eh? :D

Edited September 30, 2011 by Kevin Bacon

[coullstar 0]

Interesting stuff, you certinaly do your homework. Alt's are prone for going are they not on the 24v's.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cheers! This engine conversion has been a real baptism of fire. Next time I do a conversion I will just get the whole darn donor car!

 

Not sure on the Alternators going on 24Vs tbh, but they probably do! They don't have a good track record do they? Coils failing all the time, loom problems, R32s catching fire, alts failing, intake gaskets leaking, injector o rings leaking, cam chains stretching etc etc.

 

The most reliable 24V by a country mile is the 1999-2001 AUE from the original 4 Motion. Why? Because it's simple!

[24V Renshaw 0]

Love the attention to detail documented on your thread Kev. I used the AUE 24v in my Rado and it never missed a beat in the three years I ran it daily after the conversion and still hasn't 6 years on.. Literally nothing going on it. Awesome engine, just needed a little more oomph!

 

Jay

[boost monkey 0]

I wouldnt have seen it there, havent bought a VW mag in about 10years now. Should be fairly simple but my be a convoluted route, right over the downpipes and will be a tight squeeze if the turbine is fitted. As you have a relocated battery it shouldnt be too bad using RHS but the LHS will look bare.

 

So the intake runs over the hottest item in the engine bay....?

[coullstar 0]

Yes, no real other way to do it to keep a fairly short route. A heat sheild and some heat wrap on the pipe will make a big difference.

[Dox 23]

The V5 AQN engine is basically a 4mo engine less a cylinder, maybe a source of cheaper spares? I'm breaking the Toledo due to stretched chains, a friends Bora was towed home earlier this week with that silly alternator pulley in 2 halves............

[boost monkey 0]

I want to know how on earth VW managed to balance a V5 engine, and what the primary/secondary moments are. Perhaps it just has a dirty great big flywheel!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

You forget Oh Monkey of the Boosted variety that VR engines are basically 'inline'... i.e. the cylinder banks are so close together there are virtually no opposing forces. You are quite correct though, a flat 5 or a 90 deg V5 would present some very tough balancing problems! Then again, if you go to that much trouble adding weight to balance it, you may as well just get the 6 pot :lol:

 

I remember my car geek friends at school (way back in 1988!) laughing about the mere suggestion of a V5! I wonder if these kids ate their words when VW launched the VR5? :lol:

 

Good to hear your original install is still going strong Jay. It couldn't possibly be any other way because the quality of your work :D

But, yeah I really like the AUE. I think R32s are a safe bet now though, so long as you get a late one. VW have very recently addressed the coils issue with another recall, they've addressed the chains problem and I believe the alternators have been improved too.

[boost monkey 0]

Yes, no real other way to do it to keep a fairly short route. A heat sheild and some heat wrap on the pipe will make a big difference.

 

That's really sad that the intake has to go over there! It makes all efforts of tuning the car in nothing but the deepest winter almost pointless.

 

Why would you even bother tuning it with IATs so high..... *goes off to cry*

 

---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------

 

I just can't agree that 15degs is nothing. Maybe for a 6-pot but on a V5 there is still one unbalanced cylinder and therefore and resultant force.

 

I did my diss on the VR6, I'm aware of the inlineness :)

[quicky1980 0]

Still not seeing why you didnt go for late single feed injection rail with a fpr like i have. Is there an issue with this setup that I need to know about and hence go with the feed, return arrangement a la mk4/vr6

[Kevin Bacon 5]

That's really sad that the intake has to go over there! It makes all efforts of tuning the car in nothing but the deepest winter almost pointless. Why would you even bother tuning it with IATs so high..... *goes off to cry*

 

When there is air being drawn in it's not hot, despite being over the exhaust. It's like a mixer tap. After you've filled a sink with hot water, the water doesn't stay hot because of the metal temperature when you turn the cold on does it? Besides which, charge air temps pre intercooler are pretty irrelevant anyway, since compressed air comes out of the turbo at up to 100 deg C.

 

I just can't agree that 15degs is nothing. Maybe for a 6-pot but on a V5 there is still one unbalanced cylinder and therefore and resultant force. I did my diss on the VR6, I'm aware of the inlineness :)

 

Again, not when the 'V' runs at such a shallow angle!! Can't you visualise it in your head? Pump your arms up down vertically, then repeat out to the sides. Which rocks your torso more? Which direction are VR6 pistons pointing? Yes, Up! It's not a true V and therefore is not subject to the same forces. And you're the one doing car engineering degree???! :lol:

 

Still not seeing why you didnt go for late single feed injection rail with a fpr like i have. Is there an issue with this setup that I need to know about and hence go with the feed, return arrangement a la mk4/vr6

 

I explained that in great detail already and I'm not repeating myself. You're running the stock ECU so it's not an issue for you.

 

---------- Post added at 07:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------

 

More updates....

 

United Motorsport downpipe comes down in a nice place and a full 3" internal bore :D

 

 

Mates up to the stock cat perfectly. The rest of the exhaust system was kind of cobbled together from ex-turbo bits and old tubing I had lying around. I hate working on exhausts on axle stands, so it was very much a 'it will do for now' thing until I get it on the ramps at Stealth before mapping.

 

The brake lines are now all derusted and hammerited! They've only got a year or two left and then they'll need to be ripped off and replaced. The joys of old car ownership! The brake lines and the state of the heatshield clips is a visual demonstration as to why you shouldn't store cars in a damp garage!

 

 

So now it's pretty much just wiring and then it's done. Thankfully VAG have followed standard car wiring practices, so this isn't half as complicated as it looks. The labelling is more for my ageing brain's benefit and because VAG's loom makers clearly ran out of colour / tracer combinations in a few places.

 

 

The loom is being installed as VAG intended, even the EGR stuff and all lambdas etc etc, which means I can swap between standalone and VAG ECU very quickly.

 

 

And thanks to friends in the right places, I aquired an Audi Q7 engine and fusebox loom FOC, which has every conceivable late style clip and plug imaginable, plus OE cable conduits etc :D Most of the clips and plugs on my MK4 loom were snapped or missing, so the Q7 loom has been invaluable so far.

 

 

Since my Standalone can't run a MAF sensor (well, it can, but it's complicated) and that's where VW pick up the intake air temp from, that presented a problem sensor wise. There's no where to screw the air sensor in the intake as it's a real cheap and nasty thin thing with no meat to tap into. So this Audi R8 intake boot is perfect for plumbing the air temp sensor into :D

 

Edited October 3, 2011 by Kevin Bacon

[quicky1980 0]

not sure if you meant to come across abrupt but apologies for being a bit slow today. Been a long day at work and completely forgot your previous mention regarding fuel lines and engine management.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

No, sorry mate, wasn't intended to be abrupt! It's difficult to condense a complicated subject into a few words, so some of my ramblings can be a bit hard going sometimes :D

[Jim 2]

Nice find on the Q7 donor loom... presumably you've got the tool for punching the pins in and out so you can make it all nice and OE rather than cutting and then joining the donor plugs to your existing loom?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yes mate - http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?cat=524&item=3774 - it's absolutely invaluable! It's 50 quid on Amazon though :D

[boost monkey 0]

When there is air being drawn in it's not hot, despite being over the exhaust. It's like a mixer tap. After you've filled a sink with hot water, the water doesn't stay hot because of the metal temperature when you turn the cold on does it? Besides which, charge air temps pre intercooler are pretty irrelevant anyway, since compressed air comes out of the turbo at up to 100 deg C.

 

having a hot intake pipe is still going to conduct/radiate some of that heat into the air flowing through it. That's the point I'm making. It may be a few degrees but it's still happening! If whoever's car that is is happy to settle for that then fair enough. Besides, I don't think intake manifold pulse dynamics are affected before the TB, only after when the manifold starts so perhaps there is a better way of routing the intake. End of the day, if the car's owner is happy then it doesn't matter :D

 

 

Again, not when the 'V' runs at such a shallow angle!! Can't you visualise it in your head? Pump your arms up down vertically, then repeat out to the sides. Which rocks your torso more? Which direction are VR6 pistons pointing? Yes, Up! It's not a true V and therefore is not subject to the same forces. And you're the one doing car engineering degree???! :lol:

 

I think you're missing my point matey. In my job if I measure to the nearest 15 degrees and say 0 and 15 are the same, then I am going to get fired. Simple as that. Everyone has different tolerances that they work to, I'm just saying there is going to be a difference between a VR6 and an inline 6. Heck, there'd be a difference between an inline 6 and a 5deg banked V6 too! That's the second point i'm trying to make. I don't mind if you don't agree with me, just trying to clarify.

 

Anyways, keep up the good work! :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Fair enough chap, wasn't trying to start a big argument or anything. I think it's just a case of we both have different ideas in our heads but it's difficult to convey on paper, as it where :D

 

I think 15 deg was as close as they could get the two banks, but the FSI V6s are all 10.5 deg, so even narrower! VW did well with it though tbh, it's comparable in smoothness to a BMW inline 6 of the same vintage :D You can of course also counter some inbalance with the plug firing order. You can feel that when you start a big yank V8 or air cooled beetle. When the motor is cranking it rocks the car side to side, but once running, the firing orders smooth it out again :D But then you know all that already!

 

You've got to love VW's ingenuity.....

 

 

Can't find any info about counter balance shafts or anything, but it does have it's own wiki! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V5_engine

[Dox 23]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8762040/23-V5-AGZ-info-doc

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

Always wondered what a V5 engine would be like in a Corrado. I'd imagine 190bhp without a cat?

[coullstar 0]

Add a turbo and it sounds appealing. 5cly turbo, the noise of perfection.