Water Injection

[philO 0]

Anyone had any experience with water injection. Seems to be over looked as i haven't seen it mentioned in the fourm, (unless i've missed it). Pros and Cons??? is it pos with Cs? i think its about £300 from demon tweeks for the kit.

phil

[steveo29 0]

do some searhes on google....its sounds good ,but apparently the water causes bad things inside the engine??

[dazzyvr6 0]

all the top tuners use it as it cools the cylinders,used mainly on big bhp turbod cars

[Chris VR6nos 0]

there has been a good bit said about it on here, use the search on the forum bar at the top :wink:

 

 

Chris

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I ran an Aquamist H2O/Methanol (60/40 mix) system on my 16V Turbo and it was pretty good. Put it this way, without the Aquamist, a hard run in the turbo would leave you with an inlet manifold that's too hot to touch. With the Aquamist, the inlet manifold was stone cold after the same duration - it really works. It's all about reducing inlet charge temp.

 

It caused absolutely no damage to my engine at all because as with Nitrous, so long as it's installed properly and the correct jetting is used, there is no risk of breaking the internals.

 

Downsides include cost of the kit and fragility of the pumps. The pump needs to sit lower than the washer bottle and needs to be protected from the elements.

 

Upsides are massively reduced inlet charge temps meaning you can crank up the ignition advance and really get that engine motoring! And due to the large size of VW washer bottles, you simply pour the water/methanol mix into the bottle and take a feed to the pump. I used a 9 litre bottle from a Headlight washer equipped MK2 Golf, they should fit in the Corrado too.

 

Most screen washes consist of methanol anyway, so it won't damage the screen or wiper blades, or if you can't source methanol, use regular screenwash instead.

 

K

[G60Jet 1]

Darren is doing some work on this subject and im waiting for the costings

[philO 0]

sounds good but not quite clear, is it going to give me any advantages to my 1.8 16V? i've only had the head ported and polished and a home made cold air pipe fitted.

phil

[Kevin Bacon 5]

No it won't work on a normally aspirated engine. It's designed to cool compressed air from a turbo or supercharger.

[Chris VR6nos 0]

Not so true Kev!

Water injection for forced induction like we would use it for is not the only way to use it, years back it was used to almost double the fuel consumption from what i have found and keep the combustion chamber clean from carbon, and raise the combustion pressures, it worked and quite well from all reports, however the water in this system goes in as steam, not cold.

 

 

Chris

[philO 0]

interesting Chris, so it might be worth it for my 1.8 16V? especually if it will improve fuel comsumption.

[g60bv 0]

yep. it's bloody brillient :-P keeps my charge to about 13'c, really.!!

 

*mod edit - removed triple post for you... - Henny*

[W3RKD 0]

yep it aint bad ... :lol: :lol:

[Chris VR6nos 0]

philO,

Don't be confused with the system being spoken about on here, that is for cooling the charge from a charger/turbo.

This system should be called steam injection as it is heated by the exhaust and injected as steam, that's what i was talking about being relevent to a normally aspirated engine.

 

 

 

Chris

[H8RRA 0]

I would guess that small amounts of water injected into a normally aspirated car would increase the charge density to give more oomph?? Obviously a forced induction set up will be hotter at the inlet but will the cooling effect have any bearing on normally aspirated? Surely steam injection increases the temperature and only serves to increasing the charge density which gets back to my opening statement????

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The problem with NA cars is the gas speed isn't fast enough for the H20/Methanol to atomise fully, so at the very best it would only have a small effect at WOT. Aquamist is injected at about 2 bar and if you use the finest jet available, you might get it to work but it will take a lot of optimisation on the rollers to get right. The beauty of this system with FI cars is that you control the injection with a MAP sensor so you don't swamp the the engine with too much water......this will be very hard to control on a NA engine.

 

On my engine the water kicked in at 0.6bar....so I doubt a NA engine would even trigger the MAP sensor!

 

K

[biggerbigben 0]

i'm looking into it for mine..

[g60racing 0]

If you want a kit yous may want to look here

 

http://www.pitstopdevelopments.com/part ... tercoolers

 

Cheers

[Chris VR6nos 0]

Stick your thumb over the end of a bike pump & pump it, the air inside the pump gets very hot, this is the same effect as what happens with a turbo or charger, basically compresses the air making it very hot thus needing cooling hense cold water injection.

Normally aspirated engines don't have anything to compress the air so no need for cooling as the air entering the engine remains at the same temp as when it was sucked in.

Ultimately it's all down to volumetric efficiancy, this is the only reason to adjust the inlet temps.

 

 

Chris

[stormseeker 0]

 

volumetric efficiency

 

 

posh phrase meaning colder air == denser air == more oxygen == more power :-) :-) :-)

[trendy tramp 0]

The problem with NA cars is the gas speed isn't fast enough for the H20/Methanol to atomise fully, so at the very best it would only have a small effect at WOT. Aquamist is injected at about 2 bar and if you use the finest jet available, you might get it to work but it will take a lot of optimisation on the rollers to get right. The beauty of this system with FI cars is that you control the injection with a MAP sensor so you don't swamp the the engine with too much water......this will be very hard to control on a NA engine.

 

On my engine the water kicked in at 0.6bar....so I doubt a NA engine would even trigger the MAP sensor!

 

K

 

nothing to do wuth gas speed and all about temperature. Different fluids have different 'drop-out temperatures' when travelling in air, depending upon humidity levels. A n/a engine struggles to reach the temperature levels whereby it can atomise finely enough and remain in that state to stay within the air flow.

internal intercooling using water injection is fine up to a point - don't go overkill - remember, water doesn't like being compressed and may try to make it's own escape route!

 

tt

[Chris VR6nos 0]

This is getting good!

 

 

Chris

[Kevin Bacon 5]

internal intercooling using water injection is fine up to a point - don't go overkill -

 

Which is what the MAP sensor is for.

 

remember, water doesn't like being compressed and may try to make it's own escape route!tt

 

In the case of water in liquid form yes, but a mist is entirely different.

[trendy tramp 0]

internal intercooling using water injection is fine up to a point - don't go overkill -

 

Which is what the MAP sensor is for.

 

remember, water doesn't like being compressed and may try to make it's own escape route!tt

 

In the case of water in liquid form yes, but a mist is entirely different.[/quote:44e94]

 

what i meant was don't go overkill on the mas of water injected

 

and water in any form in the right quantity will start blowing holes in your engine - i was involved in some research a couple of years back whereby water was mixed with Diesel prior to injection in order to cool the intake charge when high levels of EGR were being used allowing massive NOx reductions. i also recall when upping the water to higher and higher levels the test engine grenading itself :oops: and you don't get much finer mist than in a modern Diesel injector

 

tt