VR6 Stalling - Sticky Thread Needed?

[daytona600 0]

My VR has developed the dreaded stalling problem when dropping the clutch.

 

Before any mods jump on me to search the forum may I say that I have done nothing but for several evenings. The trouble is that nobody seems to have cracked this yet. The fault is not only annoying but dangerous (2 near accidents already)

 

There must be at least one person that has had this common problem which has found a solution?

 

If no common solution can be found then I think an ordered check list would be most helpful. A sticky topic would be most welcome.

 

As to my problem. Like I said, she stalls when I drop the clutch any time after approx 5 minutes driving. Idle is smooth (no hunting) at about 650 rpm.

 

I have checked and cleaned my ISV. It was not dirty and operated correctly. BTW, my local VW dealer parts bloke said that he has never sold one as they just don't fail. This is at odds to many comments on the forum (I was quoted £265 !)

 

If anyone near me Stowmarket / Ipswich has VAGCOM and is willing to help please let me know.

 

Cheers!

[dukest 0]

not going to jump on you for not finding an answer, but at the same time, until there's an answer its not necessarily the best thing to start a new thread either. was there one that you found some good discussion in that we could continue and attract attention to with background in it? thats better than another new one where everyone is effectively starting from scratch.

[daytona600 0]

H Dukest, To be honest after reading through lots of threads I noticed conflicting solutions. Just thought that as this seems to be a common & potentially dangerous problem that somebody with more knowledge than me could help with. An a-z list of what to check in order of likely cause would be a start. It would also put an end to dozens of threads on the same subject. Guilty of starting another one but ;-)

[fla 9]

if you've done most of the suggestions (cleaning ISV, MAF, adjusting dashpot etc), then try changing your driving style slightly - not saying that you are a bad driver i hasten to add. Instead of just dipping the clutch, take your foot off the gas at least 1 second before you plan to press the clutch down, rather than simultaneously. Give it a try and see if you can get used to that.

[VR6 0]

Dozens of things to try, perhaps. But conflicting advice? Care to elaborate on what's been suggested as both something to try and something to definitely avoid as solutions?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

OK, so assuming it's been VCDS'd and no errors were reported, then I would say it's the MAF.

 

The VR6 stalls VERY easily. As fla said, VW had to install a device to slow the throttle closure down in an attempt to stop the problem, but on top of that, if the fuelling isn't 100% bang on, it will stall.

 

The dealer is right, the VR6 idle valve never fails. I wouldn't say the advice is conflicting, it's just that over the years the information has been 'refined' as we learn more about these cars. We're not going to vet every thread to make sure the information is still valid. That would take forever.

 

And part of the reason why we don't seem to have 'nailed it' is because when it comes to MAF replacement, people always say "Already replaced" and never report back to us when the stalling has stopped. Well, replaced with what though? A s/hand POS from ebay that's just as bad, or worse? We don't know. No one tells us.

 

The experts haven't nailed precisely why either. Ring Vince and ask him why OBD1 VR6s stall and you won't get a straight answer because he doesn't know. No one does. It's just one of those things. It was why I upgraded to OBD2.

 

My money is on the MAF though. Back in the day when I ran a standard engine, it was the only part that actually made a difference after replacement.

[jamiehamy 0]

I must say, I echo kev's comments about posters never updating with how they got in. It's maddening to see threads that are outlining exactly your problems, what the poster is going to do, then no final update/outcome!

 

I know I for one do my best to put a final post stating my outcome to try help people. Maybe when we spot an 'incomplete' thread that hasn't been updated for a while, we can try resurrect it and encourage the OP to provide an update? It'snot just this forum of course, it's everywhere, but it's small things like that that make 'our' forum even more helpful than it already is. :)

 

I know I have occasional stalls, but will not replace the MAF simply because no-one (that I've ever found) has fitted a new one and been able to say 'that fixed it'. I'm sure it's happened, but I'm not aware of it.

[daytona600 0]

Thanks All. I am going to look at cleaning the MAF tonight Kev.

 

I guess I was just getting frustrated last night. Jamie hit the nail on the head. If a problem has been fixed it would be more than helpful if the OP came back to say so.

 

I hereby promise to report back if I can stop the stalling problem.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Good man!

 

It is very, very frustrating the stalling thing. I don't know if you know Ipswich, but Back Hamlet behind the college was always a bad road for me with the stalling. I'd cruise down there in the mornings, then go onto the roundabout only to find the fecker had cut out on me, so I had no power steering or brakes half way round the roundabout. Nice.

 

It was during moments like that I vowed to sell the darn thing, but that Corrado love/hate thing stopped me selling it!

[daytona600 0]

Yes I know that road, will try to avoid till I can (hopefully) get this fixed.

 

Just plugged in my laptop and got the following error codes.

 

537 - Oxygen sensor regulation control limit not reached INTERMITTENT

 

533 - Idle regulation adaption limit not reached INTERMITTENT

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah, those errors just mean the ECU ran out of options to solve the fuelling issue at idle speeds.

 

Since the MAF is the engine load measuring sensor, if that's up the swanny, the other sensors will struggle in sympathy.

 

Many people would read those errors as a faulty Lambda sensor and Idle valve, but not so. Don't replace them. Let's do some more diagnosis / testing first. First thing we can do is clear the codes and take it out for a good old fashioned thrape, and I mean a proper ragging. Redline it in every gear. Really get some heat through it to burn off any crap on the lambda sensor and decoke the piston crowns etc etc..... VRs hate trundling around doing short journeys. Get it home and check the codes again.

 

How old is your VR? It's a 94 IIRC? So you'll have the expensive 5 pin MAF (hot wire)?

 

It's possible to convert it to the cheaper 4 pin MAF (95 and Golf OBD2) in which case MAF replacement is easier to bear. I'll try and dig out the details.

 

Thinking in the long term, you might want to consider upgrading to OBD2. It never stalls and the engine will feel smoother and more responsive to boot.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Kevin Bacon

[daytona600 0]

Ok I don't want to speak too soon but I think I have cured the stalling problem. Here is the exact steps that I took. I hope it may help someone in the future.

 

Cleared ECU faults.

Removed air filter and cleaned with brush (will replace soon).

Removed MAF hot wire type and sprayed it with a little Servisol Super 10 Switch Cleaning Lubricant.

Cleaned the throttle body with plenty of carb cleaner & kitchen roll. Opening throttle to get right inside (It had loads of crud inside).

Checked all pipes for leaks.

Checked all related cables.

Put it all back together. Started car.

 

After several seconds it spluttered, backfired and then loads of acrid black smoke started to come from under the bonnet. I guess this was the carb cleaner? At first I thought I may have fried the MAF.

 

Anyway it settled down so I did as Kev suggested and took it for a good thrash, red lined every gear except 5th as I can't see far enough ahead to do 130+ ;-)

Then tested dropping the clutch.

 

No more stalling and it's running smoother than ever. Happy days! (until the next problem)

 

Kev, the car is a 93 with a 5 pin MAF. I have no idea what is involved in upgrading to OBD2 but it sounds expensive? Can you point me in the right direction for more info?

 

You may remember coming to meet me at Tesco Copdock to plug in your VAG-COM a few years back. You found some sensor faults for which I am eternally grateful.

 

Cheers

[daytona600 0]

Just a quick update. Car still running sweet with not a single stall.

 

Having read another thread I now suspect running the output test on VAGCOM probably fixed the problem rather than simply cleaning the throttle body. Does anyone else think this more likely?

Edited February 26, 2011 by daytona600

[WigsVR6 0]

For the last month my VR hasn't been running smoothly, lumpy at tickover and hesitant in all gears at low revs. Not once did it ever stall in that time. The problem was diagnosed as a faulty spark plug and rectified. Now the engine is fine except it now stalls or threatens to when I come to a junction ect. I'm completley baffled by this. Anyone got any advice? Maybe I've found the cure we should be running on five cylinders lol

 

BTW how do I get to the smilies on this new format?

 

Alan

[CazzaVR 0]

Smilies are in the 'Go Advanced' option at the bottom.

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

Good news, my VR6 has been occasionally stalling (3rd gear at 25mph when changing up etc). The car already has a new MAF so I guess the throttle body just needs a good going over with some carb cleaner.

[boost monkey 0]

tbh I don't think any amount of sticky thread or sellotape or duct tape is going to stop a VR stalling!!11!!!111oneone :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[edd 0]

cleaning the MAF hotwire with carb cleaner has always worked for me on the vr6 it the hasn't happened for a years though, i always thought it may be related to induction kits possibly allowing more contamination of the MAF... just my two pence

[fendervg 30]

Just as another option - I had this problem after the roads were flooded here and I had to go though some deep water - the O2 and temp sender wiring on top of the cat got wet and led to stalling and erratic idle - cleaned and dried them and everything was fine after that.

[Mike Edwards 0]

Grenade!

 

The ISV not only fails (completely, burnt out, FUBAR'd), it cokes up. Cleaning with carb (or brake) cleaner so that it opens with the flick of a finger sorts this though. The coking up, not the complete failure - just so we're clear.

 

The damper on the throttle body also fails, and isn't available separately. Without it, the car will stall when you dip the clutch.

 

The MAF is another failure point. Cleaning is unlikely to work for long, as it's designed to burn off contaminants. If it isn't doing this, it (or something in the engine that is allowing so much oil vapour into the inlet that it can't cope) is FUBAR'd.

 

Other than this, a knackered Cam Position Sensor is just about your only possibility short of an ECU fault.

 

There is a reason why VW went to OBD2, and it's not just improved fuel economy...