VRGixxer 10 Posted March 9, 2011 Hi,recently moved upto a VR6,and have noticed what can only be described as a rattle around the engine (seems to be drivers side top end I think)...sounds like a marble in a washing machine at med spin...engine seems to pull ok,with no smoke and sound is pretty much drowned out when i open the throttle,so unsure if its only noisey when idling Just wondering if this is any cause for concern,or if it's a normal characteristic of the vr engine....car has 150.000 on the clock but did have a rebuild at about 100.000.... Thinking of dropping the oil,its a bit black..would this help?...thanks in advance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rams 0 Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) When were the timing chains replaced? Get a long screw driver and hold it to your ear listening for the sound. It's most likely the chain wearing against the rivits. Usually the top pad wears out more so and the noise is the chain bouncing over the rivits or it could be noisey tappets. There are lots of posts about timing chains and funny tapping sounds and metallic metal sounds. The timing chains are to the right hand side of the block. A new set of tappets works wonders, try and get the INA ones that euro car parts do, these are the factory tappets. When I ordered them last time, they were listed a febi but I received the INA ones which are the best. I did my timing chains and lots of pictures on members gallery under more storm maintenance. Keep us posted. Try some new oil first and see if the noise settles down as poor oil in the engines will sludge up the system and prevent the oil from getting around nicely and pressurising the tappets. Failing that, it may be something more, inside the engine but lets hope its not. Try and get a recording of the noise if you can. Rams Edited March 9, 2011 by Rams spelling issue Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toad 0 Posted March 9, 2011 Marbles in a washing machine does sound exactly like the chain on the tensioner rivets. Whip the rocker cover off and find out for sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted March 9, 2011 aux belt pulley bearings?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CazzaVR 0 Posted March 9, 2011 Yeh, if it's driver's side it'll be the pulley bearing as above /\/\/\ These are often quite noisey. Pretty simple to change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VRGixxer 10 Posted March 9, 2011 Thanks for the responces guys, Just took it round the block to have another listen,this time minus cd player as my daughter wanted her sing along disney back...lol.. Seriously though..the rattle does not seem to increase speed with revs as far as I can tell...surely it would if either cam chains or tappets?....hopefully this is good news,but scratching my head a bit now. I have made a recording on my phone see if that helps,excuse the quality it does sound a bit like a goose being strangled at times.... oh while I was out there in the dark,i noticed one of the jump leads metal covers arcing to the block,the first pot (where the sound eminates) don't suppose its related?...thanks again.......just spent half hour trying to attach sound file...three format conversions,and a winzip download later and but too large to upload.....dang!... will have to add another time.....more head scratching.....:bonk: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted March 10, 2011 Is this rattle there when hot or cold, or all the time? The two most common VR6 rattles are:- Piston slap when cold - eminates from cyl 1 usually (opposite airbox, rear most) Layshaft bearing, worse when hot - Eminates from bell housing, goes when pressing clutch pedal down. Neither of these are cause for concern. If neither of those and you think the chains are OK (due to the rebuild at 100K), then as the other guys said, use a long screwdriver as a stethoscope to try and pinpoint where the noise is coming from :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
easypops 8 Posted March 10, 2011 My belt tensioner(opposite air box on side of engine) made a fair bit of noise before it disintegrated, which also got louder as you revved it more......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted March 10, 2011 Oh and as well as the belt tensioner mentioned there, another cause for rattling I've discovered over the years is a curious one. The alternator belt!! I was chasing a persistent rattle for months and months and then one day out of curiousity, I sprayed some belt dressing onto the pulleys whilst the engine was running and the noise went completely. It was a cheap belt from GSF. Fitted a dealer belt and it's been silent ever since. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VRGixxer 10 Posted March 10, 2011 Hi again,it's all the time....the pully bearings does sound feasable...as it does sound like its outside,rather than in the block,but hard to tell...I will get a screwdriver and an earhole on the job later after work... It's doing my head in a bit now,more i listen to it,worse it sounds...think that's just paranoia though... there isn't any metal plates around that area is there?,that could be vibrating?...as it doesnt seem to increase speed with acceleration....just changes the sound....god it's difficult writing about sounds,lol...will have another bash at getting a soundfile uploaded thanks again... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VRGixxer 10 Posted March 10, 2011 Re the timing chain and guides,they were replaced 10,000 miles ago....so would hope they are ok?....it was 8 years ago though...do they milage wear,or age degrade and slaken?... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
easypops 8 Posted March 10, 2011 I dont think the chains themselves fail........i think its the guides that eventually wear out.........someone with proper knowledge will answer this better(kev) :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted March 10, 2011 The car has only done 10K miles in 8 years?!! :D Yeah chain snappage is thankfully extremely rare, and even then it only happens because of the excessive slackness from the worn out tensioners / guides. A simple chain health check would be to get the engine up to temperature and then hold the rpm at 1200ish rpm (via the throttle linkage) and listen for a rattling noise from the back of the engine above the gearbox. There will always be a 'rubbing' noise from the chain, which you can ignore. Slack chain noise is a very obvious and disconcerting mechanical slapping kind of sound. Diagnosing noises on a forum is very hard, but hopefully you've got a few areas investigate now :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fendervg 30 Posted March 10, 2011 Metal heat shields loose ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VRGixxer 10 Posted March 10, 2011 Yeah...10,000 miles in 8 years!....Laffin...also fanbelt and tensioner were replaced 2 months ago...would that have any bearing....on the bearings?... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VRGixxer 10 Posted March 10, 2011 Fendervg...i can't see any loose,,,is ther any hidden from view? maybe under the exhaust manifold? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted March 10, 2011 can someone correct me if im wrong, cant the aux belt be removed to allow diagnosis if the alt, tensioner, water pump are causing the noise? Obv' for a very quick test? Would save shelling out on parts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VRGixxer 10 Posted March 10, 2011 Kev,thanks for all the useful pointers...you got me thinking about the milage actually,feeling more chuffed with my purchase and after a more detailed look through the service history showed that in march 2005...it had 152,000 on the clock...3 k in six years!...wonder where its been....mmm anyway back to topic...going to try and drop the oil later...and get a screwdriver on the block... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted March 10, 2011 Sounds like it's lead a relaxed life! You've had the belt tensioner replaced, so unlikely to be the bearings in that causing the noise. As Quicky said, you can wind an M8 bolt into the threaded hole of the belt tensioner and wind it in to take the tension off the belt. Then you can spin the Alternator, water pump and Power steering pulleys by hand to check for play. Now that I remember, the water pump can rattle when it's about to die. Any coolant puddles under the car after a run? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamiehamy 0 Posted March 10, 2011 Hi,recently moved upto a VR6,and have noticed what can only be described as a rattle around the engine (seems to be drivers side top end I think)...sounds like a marble in a washing machine at med spin...engine seems to pull ok,with no smoke and sound is pretty much drowned out when i open the throttle,so unsure if its only noisey when idling QUOTE] I must be honest, my VR has the same noise, drivers side, top, bulkhead side. I've given up trying to stop it - I did the chains and tensioners (they were barely even worn!), tappets, oil, checked timing and it's still there. I only notice it when the bonnet is open and now at the point where I'm just accepting is as 'normal'. I'd love to fix it, but short of a rebuild, doubt I will. Runs fine, uses little oil and performs fine so I'm letting this sleeping dog(?) lie... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VRGixxer 10 Posted March 10, 2011 Update:..I got under the hood with my trusty screwdriver.....(looking like some mangled dalek bent over the block)...in the dark...nearly lost a finger in the pullys...I love my raddo! ...and the noise is a metallic grating deffo at the back of the block..around the exhaust manifold area....I didnt drop the oil...due to grotty weather and not being able to get an oil filter till tomorrow...does that shed light,or just create more shadows?... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamiehamy 0 Posted March 11, 2011 Not sure about light, but your description matches how mine sounds, but i've never been able to work it right! The same sounds was on my old engine, hence why I'm just leaving it. When I took the head off that, there was nothing untoward looking to correspond to the sound. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
