Anyone know much about solar panels?

[davidwort 0]

Thinking of getting some ikea solar panels, before you laugh, no they don't come as flat-pack self assembly!

the current feed in tariff from the government ends in April next year possibly, and ikea are doing a good deal though Hanergy for an install, a 2.4kw system for 4 grand fully installed, 4kw about 6k, which I'd simply draw on some of my house equity to pay for. Estimated to give a 12-14% return on investment over 20 years, basically helping to pay off my mortgage, panels have a 25 yr warranty, inverter 5 years.

I was always against the things based on mainly pay-back time, but I'm struggling to find a problem with this offer and the current FIT level if I get it done in the next couple of months, any accountants (o anyone) out there have a view :)

[Ray1965 10]

Before you commit. look at this http://ashadegreener.co.uk/

Dunno if in your area, i have had them on my house for 3 years now.

[mic_VR 3]

I've not had a huge amount of dealing with them but generally I've found clients try to avoid any schemes which create convernant over your property. Ie: we install for free, but you must have these panels on your house for X number of years. And if you sell, the next owners must meet these terms until the end of the agreement.

This can cause issues if you want to move and any potential purchaser may be discouraged from being tied into them.

 

Buy outright and I see no issue, and I think people generally save a fair bit with them. Whether it'd be enough to cover the additional interest on increasing your mortgage to pay for them would need a proper calculation.

[eugopnosaj 0]

Hey David, my mum recently had panels fitted; £100 deposit, paid over 10 years or something and in the end just borrowed money (from a family member) to pay it off (think it was around 7k) because the return compared to the interest each month wasn't that great. It took a while to get things sorted with the electric company also to sort out the payback for selling them the electricity etc and they originally offered a lower rate but by the time it was installed that rate changed. She complained and they offered to pay mum the interest that she would have to pay for the first year, plus a good will gesture. Ended up paying her around £400 back which was good because they obviously promised her different details to what she was actually getting.

 

She writes down all the readings and you can see a difference, she also makes sure that things like the washing machine/dishwasher etc are used as much as possible during daylight hours as shes then off-grid which is all good. Her house isn't quite the right orientation and she has 12 panels iirc all at the front of the house and she get a fair bit, summer should be good.

[davidwort 0]

Well I've committed to the survey, £100 down, non refundable if I don't go for it, but if nothing else I get an EPC inspection/certificate out of that.

My house is in an ideal position and no-one else will be able to see the south facing panels on the back of the house so now it really comes down to how many they say they can fir up there :)

 

cost-wise as well as being a very good install price, It's easy for me to draw on what I've already paid off my mortgage without any penalty, so I basically end up with paying my mortgage off faster after a few years after having borrowed off my mortgage to invest in something, and it's all government backed for 20 years.

 

The only way I can see losing anything is if I move in a couple of years which isn't likely, and even then it will raise the EPC rating of my house and give a future owner a guaranteed income so I should get something back on the value of the house.

 

My son is going to have to get used to playing the Xbox in daylight hours only from now on :lol:

[vornwend 0]

Interesting - like you I've always thought the payback was going to be too long - do you have an annual estimate of how much your bill will be reduced by plus the value of selling into the grid? 12% return over 20 years suggests a saving of £450 year on your bill - is that realistic?

[lilfuzzer 1]

depend on the pitch of your roof and location in relation to south facing. Also is there any trees nearby?

 

We got one of them companies to have a look at ours to see if they would fit them. Next door has a 4kw system and has a return in the region of £1000 a year but they said that our house wasnt viable. They wanted to cut the trees that are 15m away to gutter level. So we decided to do it ourselves. Bought the panels 2.4kw system got them fitted by an installer (who calculated using his cost/return system) estimated the return as 4 years.

 

I would agree go for it while the fit is still good and if the return is calculated as decent do it.

 

Then just do all the stuff that takes alot of electricity to run during the day for free (ie washing machine)

[lilfuzzer 1]

oh and we live in a bungalow so cutting the trees down would but a nightmare.

 

We cut them to 6m high i.e top of the pitch of the roof and there is now no shade on the panels (at the worst time of year also)

 

so dont be fobbed to easily

[vornwend 0]

£1,000/year is very good! Do these companies say anything about whether the panels become less effective over time? (read some reports that say they do).

[lilfuzzer 1]

its directly south facing so sun all day long

 

With ours being smaller we wont see that kind of return but shouldnt take too long

 

Quality depends on the type of panels. In speaking to the installer he was saying that some suppliers are better than others but was confident with the ones we had bought.

 

As long as you have a qualified installer they should offer good valuable advice as if they are found doing any wrong they can be removed from the register. So its not their interest to.

[kevinbowe2000 10]

Been working on a couple of industrial size projects for putting in solar panels and looking at life cycle assessment over 25 year period.

The major thing your banking on is that FIT keeps paying out. If the government decides to change their plans, your stuffed.

Also its not only the orientaiton thats important, but the inclination (pitch). Installed PV's that we east and west facing over south facing due to inclination and shading. Worked out significantly better for east west.

To maximise your profits, try to match orientation with your usage pattern. Put large electricity consumption on when pv's have electricity production basically. All logical simple stuff really.

Loads of software that will give you estimates of how much electricity a PV panel will product based on location, orientation and inclination but the accurate ones are not free.

If you want a quick rough estimate, you can PM me and i'll do it in work tomorrow.

[davidwort 0]

£1,000/year is very good! Do these companies say anything about whether the panels become less effective over time? (read some reports that say they do).

You'll need a south facing large 4kw+ system to get close to a grand return each year, and then that depends on your usage and saving on units not bought from your energy supplier. 4kw will give a good return but a 2.4 which I may have to have will still achieve half this.

the surveyor is coming Friday so I'll see exactly what he says, but the panels have a 25yr 80% efficiency guarantee.

I can't see FIT changing for those that get in on a certain level, but leave it too long and the price is bound to drop for new entrants, it has once already, which is why I think the panel price/FIT level is at a good point right now.

[davidwort 0]

panels put up and been running since the start of the month, a couple of days I've had over 10kW/hr generated which seems pretty good as it's still Feb and only a 2.4kW system, the web interface and app is destroying my life though (OK, bit of an exaggeration), I keep watching the power graphs go up and down all day long :) I can even tell how many cups of tea my Mrs has had at home by watching the power consumption spikes :lol:

 

back of the house (south facing):

 

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[mic_VR 3]

Nice install mate. My folks are thinking about doing this but i'm not sure how big a system they'd need to make it worth while. Be interested to hear how you get on over the next few months.

[davidwort 0]

update for anyone considering an install,

had them for a year now, they've reduced my electricity consumption by about 1/3 and have paid about £450 in Feed In Tariff,

the total generation is not far off my consumption but of course I don't use all of it, up to 2/3 gets exported to the grid

my total electric import for the year was about £400, so you could say I get my power for nothing now or alternatively they look set to fully pay back in about 6 years, which is good as the Feed In Tariff continues for another 19 years!

The FIT for new registrations has dropped a couple of % since I signed up last year, so the returns are a tiny bit lower for new systems now, but much the same.

Next on the list is a PV diverter so that instead of exporting power to the grid it will proportionally divert into my hot water tank immersion heater element, reducing my gas consumption too, the beauty of that is you get paid at 50% of generation for export regardless as the meters can't measure export only generation and import, so I get paid for exporting electricity that I use! - twice! - FIT for 100% of generation plus 50% of generation deemed as export.

 

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Edited February 3, 2015 by davidwort