Dodgy steering - A cure

[herisites 0]

How much would it cost a garage to do all the bushes and these ball joints in one go?

[davidwort 0]

How much would it cost a garage to do all the bushes and these ball joints in one go?

 

If I've read correctly what you are considering doing then:

 

rear axle bushes aren't the most pleasant job, even with the right VAG press you'd be looking at a couple of hours labour for them alone, VR6's tend to need a new rear brake bias valve too I understand, not sure if this is only when you have to remove the rear beam if you don't use the VAG press though, that would mean bleeding the brake system through afterwards.

 

Front wishbones would probably be cheaper to replace whole rather than just fit new bushes due to the time involved in cutting out and pressing in the new bushes, think it took me a couple of hours even with the car on a two post ramp.

 

Roll bar bushes and drop links will add another 1/2 hr or so and then there's the steering rack rubber mount, ball joints and possibly tie rod ends plus the final wheel alignment.

 

I have done virtually all of this on my 16v, but taking my time, I reckon even if you took it to a VAG specialist like Stealth who know how to do the job most efficiently and have all the right tools you'd still be looking at a minimum of 4-5 hours labour, around 2-300 quid plus parts?

 

It's definately all worth doing though as everything becomes more solid and responsive, only trouble is it then highlights the wear in the rack and steering column, which is my next job.

[herisites 0]

Ouch :pale: i done all the bushes on my fiesta and they were a cnut so i can imagine these being even more so :(

[jimmy83 0]

arse, just re-read all of this. In one sense, I'm glad my problem is shared by you guys, on the other, Its now going to be an expensive month.......

[Jim 1]

What are you getting done jimmy?

[davidwort 0]

At last, it works! :shock:

 

After several hours of sub-frame and engine mount unbolting, last night I've finally cracked it, I'd replaced all the bushes on the suspension before now, wishbones, ball joints etc. but the bloomin' thing still had vagueness and slop in the steering, would wander and twitch esp. on hard acceleration on poor roads.

The steering column has next to no play, surprising for a 17 yr old 150,000 miler, so the only thing left was rack, UJ and track rods.

bought a 2nd hand VR rack to swap in if necessary, but no need...

for me at least, it's all come down to the innner joint on the track rods and with a pair of new rods with new ends (about 35 quid for the pair from AVS - FEBI ones) the car steers soooo much better.

When it came down to it the rack is in very good nick, with no signs of leaks etc, so we left well alone.

Quick set up of the tracking and a rough 'yeah it looks about right' for the camber and it drives great on the road now.

I should have done these a long time ago before even considering the rack, but I guess the result is you can't expect 17 year old track rods not to have any play in them.

If anyone else wants to check, simply put the car on full lock and get someone to gently rock the steering wheel while you hold the tie rod, mine audibly and physically knocked on both sides doing this, should have checked this a long time ago :oops:

 

all on a 16v BTW.

[Jim 1]

Superb news. Difficult to do mate or fairly easy? Or did you have to remove the rack to fit the new inner bits and pieces?

 

Really good news for all of us struggling with this vague, sloppy steering..

[davidwort 0]

As the above pic sort of shows (if you can work out what you're looking at), we removed the six bolts that hold the subframe to the body, also the rear and gearbox engine mounts, then I removed the four bolts that hold the rack to the subframe and this allows the subframe to drop, not forgetting to suspend the engine from a hoist!

The subframe will drop down only about 20cm or so, as the wishbones are still attached to it and in turn they're attached via the ball joints to the hubs.

This basically gives you enough room to get onto the flats of the inner track rod to undo them from the rack ends.

A bit of heat from a blow torch made the job easier, mainly because once you unbolt the rack from the subframe it just swings around as it's only supported by the UJ and PS hoses, a v-big pair of grips sufficed there.

The main advantage was I didn't need to drop the rack and drain the PS fluid and all the mess that makes and the UJ stayed firmly fixed to the rack as the rack seemed in good nick and didn't need replacing.

[Jim Bowen 1]

i';ve just read all this thread and i'm thinking i might just go to garage with some photos and a list of bits i want done :lol:

 

are the bits pictured above just called track rod ends? is it those that need replacing? or some rack as well?

 

so far i'm thinking

 

-lower ball joints

-rear wheel bearing (mainly as i've had fronts done anyway)

-top mounts, front and rear and bearings or some sort?

 

i don't think i'll touch the rack/column until its the last resort

[davidwort 0]

i';ve just read all this thread and i'm thinking i might just go to garage with some photos and a list of bits i want done :lol:

 

are the bits pictured above just called track rod ends? is it those that need replacing? or some rack as well?

 

so far i'm thinking

 

-lower ball joints

-rear wheel bearing (mainly as i've had fronts done anyway)

-top mounts, front and rear and bearings or some sort?

 

i don't think i'll touch the rack/column until its the last resort

 

 

track rod ends are just the ball joint that attaches the track rods to the hub on each wheel, these can (if they're not siezed solid) be replaced separately from the entire track rod. On a high mileage car though, the track rod inner joint can wear and clonk with play, a garage can check this for you or you can check yourself by putting the steering on full lock each way and rocking the steering wheel back and forth slightly on full lock (engine off), if one of you does the steering rocking and the other holds onto the track rod you can feel and hear a clock from the inner track rod joint if it is badly worn. The new track rods come with both inner and outer joint (i.e. complete with track rod end). I'd only suggest replacing if it is obviously worn as they aren't the easiest things to get at on the inner joint where they attach to the rack.

Lower ball joint, again only needs replacing if actually worn and has play, undetectable play on a grage ramp/MOT may be evident with the car on the road although won't really affect the steering much, rear mounting in the wishbones are prone to ear the front mounting not, arb mountings also wear and are worth replacing, two inner rubbers and outer drop links with rubbers.

top mounts never seem to last long, especially pattern ones and are worth checking and replacing if they have much more than a mm of play. Rear bearings are inserted into the rear disc, so might as well replace the discs at the same time.

[Jim Bowen 1]

thanks for that help

 

my list so far, Going to buy/check all these bits

 

Up rated Front & rear shocks + Springs

Up rated Rear Anti Roll Bar & mounting

Front top mounts

Rear top mounts

Front Lower ball joints

Track Rods (come with track rod ends)

New Wishbones - i take it they come with the mountings?

Rear Discs with bearings + Pads

Front Discs + Pads

[Jim Bowen 1]

if i'm having these track rods done, is there any mounts worth replacing on the engine or gearbox?

[Jim Bowen 1]

i'm starting to worry now that my steering rack may need replacing.

 

there is a clonk as you sit stationary and turn wheel left and right

[herisites 0]

i'm starting to worry now that my steering rack may need replacing.

 

there is a clonk as you sit stationary and turn wheel left and right

 

I think the rack leaks power steering fluid if its gone mate, the classic sign of rack wear is its easier to turn left than right. The clonk could be the track rod, best way to check is to get a friend to sit in the car and turn the steering to full lock, you grab hold of the track rod (the rod not the end joint and as far as you can reach) and then get your mate to keep pushing the steering on lock and off slightly, if you feel and play then they could do with replacing. It could also be your top mounts clonking, mine do when im stationary and turn the steering, open your bonnet and turn the steering and watch the top mounts as you turn and see if they move when you hear the clonking, if your mate is still there get him to turn the steering whilst you stick your ear near things and you should find it :wink:

[Jim Bowen 1]

just checking out that AVS - FEBI site and the prices are alot better than VW, i went to VW on fri to get the boots, they were £18 each, on that site they are £4 :lol:

 

is it worth getting the track rods and ends from there? is there much difference in quality?

[Jim Bowen 1]

if anyone if familar with that site, is this a list of what i need, i have ARB's and shocks/springs already?

 

http://www.vwspares.co.uk/corrado.php

 

i'm not sure which bits i need to order 2 of, or if they come as a set of two?

 

08052 Tie Rod LH x1

 

08051 Tie Rod RH x1

 

14428 Ball Joint Kit x2

 

09530 Wishbone LH x1

 

09531 Wishbone RH x1

 

14116 (01117) Strut Mount Kit x2

 

18358 Bumpstop x2

 

01367. Boot x2

 

14958 Strut Mount Kit x1

 

18362 Bumpstop x2

 

01172 Rubber Mount x2

 

I may not buy it from here, i'll see what VW prices it up at

 

is there anything else i will need?

[davidwort 0]

just checking out that AVS - FEBI site and the prices are alot better than VW, i went to VW on fri to get the boots, they were £18 each, on that site they are £4 :lol:

 

is it worth getting the track rods and ends from there? is there much difference in quality?

 

The FEBI track rods and end I bought from AVS looked pretty good quality, they were for a 16v. The parts were not identical in design to the VW ones that came off the car though, but the only visible difference was the flats on the inner joint for screwing them in, just subtly different, I've had no problems with them so far and the rear FEBI mont I bought was spot on, unlike the GS one.

[Jim Bowen 1]

i went to VW in the end and for anyone interested these are the part numbers and prices for what i think/hope is needed, i got 8% discount in the end, my CCGB card didn't arrive in time, but he gave me 8% anyway, not sure why, but i didn't complain

 

[Jim Bowen 1]

thats not including ARB's and Shocks/springs btw, as i'm using aftermarket bits for that

[Jim Bowen 1]

right chaps, i've got all this fitted and the dodgy steering is still there, over bumps and cambers its a mini fight to keep straight

 

is it worth me taking car to a specialist now? getting sick of it

[dr_mat 0]

right chaps, i've got all this fitted and the dodgy steering is still there, over bumps and cambers its a mini fight to keep straight

 

is it worth me taking car to a specialist now? getting sick of it

 

You have the 4-wheel alignment all done right? Proper cast+camber setup done? Particularly after replacing all those bits it needs to be setup right cos otherwise you're wasting your time.

[Jim Bowen 1]

is more that something feels loose to me and has some play, i hope it isn't the rack but not sure what else it could be tbh

[dr_mat 0]

is more that something feels loose to me and has some play, i hope it isn't the rack but not sure what else it could be tbh

 

Steering column? Does the steering feel a little disconnected on bumpy roads when you're around about the straight-ahead (i.e. it's not under load)? You might have play in the mahoosive universal-joint at the top of the column, where the tilt adjustment takes place.

 

But I restate - if you've disconnected and refitted all the lower suspension components you're wasting your time till it's been cast+cambered properly.

Straight line stability comes from castor angle and matching cambers, not "tight" steering components.

[Jim Bowen 1]

yes its when driving straight, seems ok while turning.

 

i had the tracking done but local garage couldn't do camber, should i find someone that can do that?

 

may just get them to fit different top mounts/springs while they at it

[Jim Bowen 1]

should i just drop it off at stealth racing?

 

they are just over 100miles from me, so would have to get train home or something?

 

has anyone with dodgy steering used them and had a result?