Dodgy steering - A cure

[dr_mat 0]

Adjustable column was a £91 option on some cars ...

Funny how that translates into a £537+VAT spare part ten years later, huh?

[VeeDub Geezer 0]

could this be the same for our '93 16v?

 

it clonks a bit

[Kevin Bacon 5]

OK, update time.

 

I had a slight slackness in the steering after fitting a new rack, BJs, tie rods, wheel bearings etc etc. I could jog the wheel back n forth slightly at centre and the road wheels wouldn't move. It also caused a slight wandering at motorway speeds and sometimes the steering wheel would twitch as the road wheels shifted about, but not in the normal way, a horrid slack feel.

 

So I stripped the column right down and also took the Steering rack UJ out aswell for thorough inspection. I replaced the bottom column bearing as it was worn, checked and greased the UJ in the middle of the column, it seemed OK from what I could tell. Stripped the upper bearing and repacked it with grease, no detectable wear in that one.

 

Put one end of the Steering rack UJ in a vice, replicated the angle it sits in the car at and checked for play. There was some, it was only just detectable by eye and couldn't be felt. But when the turning force is amplified by the steering wheel, that visible slack becomes physical slack.

 

I had a new UJ to hand so I plonked it on the rack and turned it by hand, the road wheels moved straight away, no slack. Put the old one that seemed OK by feel and did the same thing, the road wheels didn't turn!

 

So it was the rack UJ after all! I've always been told by the pros that they never wear, but they do. It's just very hard to detect.

 

I will also be replacing the Adjustable column with a fixed one to take the 3rd UJ out of the equation as I'm still not convinced that's as tight as it can be and there was some resistance when turning the column shaft with it in the vice.

 

I have most of the parts to do this already, just need the lock barrel housing to complete it. It will sit in same position as the middle setting of the adjustable one, but it can be lowered with washers easily enough.

 

The fixed column is cheap from VW, about £150 for the whole lot, bearings, cowling, main column, column housing etc etc

 

The adjustable column has gone up to £637+VAT, so sod that! I can get it for £500 inc VAT, but that's still a silly sum. Mind you, when you examine one, you can see why as that central UJ is a seriously expensive looking bit of kit. It has to move up and down, left and right and and in and out whilst still be 100

[dr_mat 0]

Been spending some cash then?? Jeez, it goes on doesn't it .. What about the new UJ? Aren't they stupid prices too?

[2cc 0]

Hi Kev, glad I saw this. Though my 16V steering is far better now with new tyres (everything else has already been done) I still feel it has a bit of slack in there somewhere so looks like she'll be getting a new rack UJ pretty soon

Anyone know the part number for a 1990 1.8 16V offhand?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Not sure of the part number but I do know that all Rados up to 92 had a 32 teeth spline at both ends of the UJ. 92 on (all variants) got 22 teeth at the rack and 32 teeth at the column. I think the UJ is a normally £136 but I got it for a lot less than that :-) It's why I keep replacing things, I wouldn't if I had to pay full whack ;-)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

could this be the same for our '93 16v?

 

it clonks a bit

 

Yeah any Rado can use the fixed column, but I would check the adjustable one for play first.

 

Not sure what issues you're getting other than clonking but mine wasn't a nice steer. The road wheels would do one thing and the steering wheel another. Sounds worse than it is, it wasn't undrivable by any means, just unsatisfying.

 

The car would shift mid bend, felt like the rear wheel bearings were shot. It would tramline and torque steer (worse than a normal car), loads of kickback from the column over bumps and a general vagueness at the straight ahead that needed constant correcting.

 

Now it tracks perfectly straight, bumps don't phase it any more and off centre steering is pin point accurate and tight. Tonnes more self centering aswell.

 

The feedback is a lot more granular now too and the mods I'd done previously (coilovers, Vibratech bushes, arbs etc etc) can now be enjoyed to the full :-) I'd go as far as saying it's best steer I've felt in ANY car I've driven.

 

Amazing to think all my woes from the start were down to a simple UJ that I overlooked. You live and learn.

[corradophil 3]

Mine has new bushes all round, and still clonks, particularly under load, but it sounds like the rack to me. More worrying is the occasional whine mine has started to make when cold, like two bits of metal rubbing hard against each other and some vibration through the steering wheel. In fact it sounds just like a wooden chair being dragged on a hard floor, with similar vibrations. :?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Does the 16V have a viscous coupling on the PAS pump?

 

My old MK2 16V did exactly that and it was the PAS pulley. On the MK2 16V the pas pump used a weird viscous pulley that drove both the water and pas pumps, but at different spin rates. When it went, it sounded like the noise you describe along with some rattling. Not sure if they changed that on the Rado valver or not.

[corradophil 3]

I know the one you mean, pretty sure mines not like that, but I will have a look and post what I find on here.

[corradophil 3]

Mine does not have the viscous compling pully. It's just a single steel pulley separate to the water pump one. Hmmm, I think I'll leave it for the time being, and worry about it when it gets worse. The fluid level is fine, so appart from that I'm not sure what else I can do.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Hmmm, not sure mate!

As they say, if it's not too broken or about to fall off the car, leave it!

[corradophil 3]

I think I will leave it! Got more important things to attened to like the sunroof.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

For those who are interested, got some pics of the fixed and adjustable column differences.

 

I personally think it's a great alternative to paying £675 for a new adjustable one! It sits somewhere in-between the bottom and middle of the adjustable's settings. It can be lowered if required.

 

It's way more solid than the adjustable column, in all directions! It just doesn't move :-) The steering, as you might expect when not subjected to column movement, is sublime :-)

 

The fixed column is also about half the weight of the adjustable one aswell!

 

So anyway, there it is. If anyone wants to do it I have all the part numbers and procedures for building up a fixed column.

 

Pics are of the fixed angles, the differences between the two and a close up of the troublesome UJ in the adjustable column.

[Kick Up The Rs 0]

Have been reading this post with much interest as I've been having a bit of a clonking issue too with my G60 steering.

 

Does anyone know if the lower clamp on the column assembly actually clamps the lower roller bearing to the column tube?

 

The reason I ask is that my nut / bolt on the clamp has stripped and I've got loads of play in lower end of the column - almost as though the lower bearing is missing!

 

I don't want to go over tightening things once I've put a new nut & bolt in.

 

Obviously a bit of a bodge job by the previous owner as it looks like a recon column has recently been fitted albeit in a hurried manner.

 

Very similar to the new front subframe and engine mount - minus the mount fixing bolts...

 

Column says "Made in England A 137 091" !!

 

 

Ta

[dr_mat 0]

Can't argue with that being a good modification.. VW just didn't get the adjustable column right till much later, they appear to be a bit of a liability.

 

Did you get a new column shroud too, Kev? What did you do with the slot for the adjuster mech otherwise?

[Supercharged 2]

Yeah he got a new shroud (about £15) and it's alot more solid than the adjustable one (which was also brand new a couple of years ago)

 

I think i'll be doing this soon to my TDI as i'm sure it's the 200k old column or UJ that is causing some strangeness...

 

There is absolutly no play at all in Kevs - ie you touch the wheel and the road wheel moves, this can be seen with the steering lock on - on my tdi I don't get any road wheel movement at all with the lock engaged!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Does anyone know if the lower clamp on the column assembly actually clamps the lower roller bearing to the column tube?

 

If you mean the pinch bolt for the upper UJ then no, it just clamps the steering tube to the UJ.

 

The reason I ask is that my nut / bolt on the clamp has stripped and I've got loads of play in lower end of the column - almost as though the lower bearing is missing!

 

Someone massively overtightened it then, probably to cure a clonk. The nut is copper/brass, so easily stripped.

 

There should be a load spring at the bottom of the column which loads the bottom bearing against the UJ. The bottom bearing by default is loose as hell (even new ones). The idea being the load spring tensions the bearing correctly (there will be no play at all when the spring is there) and also absorbs some of the steering rack kick back.

 

Sounds like you just need to replace the bearing, pinch bolt, nut and load spring. Should be OK after that.

 

Column says "Made in England A 137 091" !!

 

Yep, which is why it's crap! :-)

[Kick Up The Rs 0]

Thanks.

 

The spring is very sloppy almost as though it's not under any load whatsoever...

 

Perhaps the bearing is missing!

[Kick Up The Rs 0]

Kev,

 

Just for the record and as future reference for anybody else experiencing a similar problem to me, I borrowed my missus's vanity mirror and had a look up my column last night...

 

The pre-load spring wasn't even in contact with the lower bearing.

 

So I slackened the lower UJ and the upper column clamps an carefully rotated the spring until it 'sprang' into place.

 

What a difference!

 

Just goes to show you what cowboys are about there these days.

 

Thanks

[Supercharged 2]

I borrowed my missus's vanity mirror and had a look up my column last night...

 

*snigger*

[Deluk 0]

i think mine needs doing too , i ant taking it to him tho i will go local, best to get vag ones then :)

[Jim 1]

Bump.

 

Had a good read through this. I think i'm going to have to gave a go at tackling some of the issues in here at some point as the steering on my car is simply terrifying.

 

I have strong pull to the left, serious tramlining issues, and vagueness like you wouldn't believe. It just isn't fun to drive - its a full time job.

 

Think the Ball Joints might be a good place to start perhaps and some new tyres.

 

God I need to find a little pot of money somewhere!

[dlmb500 0]

ditto, to all of the above Jim. Nearly there though. By December, might be actually able to enjoy the car i've had since July 2005. rock

[dr_mat 0]

Might be worth biting the bullet and going for whole new wishbones Jim. Plus a four-wheel alignment at the same time and it'll transform it.