Gearbox mounting, standard or vibratech

[maff 10]

The gearbox mounting has gone on my vr6, vibratech want £85 for a mount or do I get a Febi mount for £18! I've got a front vt mount so should I try and keep them all the same or save some £££ as I've got to fork out for a blowing downpipe as well, oh and some ht leads:-(

[fla 9]

i've got a solid rubber one on mine from GSF since around 2009 and no probs so far, for a Mk2 Golf diesel iirc. Around £15 then, i guess it may be a few pounds more now.

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

IIRC standard mounts are better for gearbox mounts as VT mounts all round can make it far too harsh

 

Vince advised me to go with a VT front engine mount but OEM gearbox mounts when he had my VR recently

[davidwort 0]

with the transverse engine in the 4 or 6 cylinder Corrado, pretty much all the torque from the engine acts on the front mount, and the engine weight shifts onto it when braking hard, the engine really just sits on the rear and gearbox mount.

So changing the rear mounts really does little more than generate noise and vibration on a road car, plus adding shock to the driveshaft joints usually damped by a bit of give in the standard mounts.

[maff 10]

That's what I wanted hear, should save me some pennies! cheers:-)

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

with the transverse engine in the 4 or 6 cylinder Corrado, pretty much all the torque from the engine acts on the front mount, and the engine weight shifts onto it when braking hard, the engine really just sits on the rear and gearbox mount.

So changing the rear mounts really does little more than generate noise and vibration on a road car, plus adding shock to the driveshaft joints usually damped by a bit of give in the standard mounts.

 

^^^^ great explanation!!! :)

[dr_mat 0]

I would also say that the OE oil filled VR6 gearbox mount is noticeably better at absorbing gearbox whine than an OE solid mount, so would recommend you stick with the real deal. People are scared that the oil filled mount isn't as reliable as the solid ones (I think), but reality is it lasted 100k miles so ...

[seanl82 23]

Ok I was man go Vibratechnics all round but I hear you. Anyone have any idea what the rear and GB mounts cost though? If it really is as it and dried as that, surely there's no risk grabbing them from GSF/ECP and the like?

[maff 10]

I'll be ringing tps tomorrow which supply all oem parts so i'll let you know what the damage is

[seanl82 23]

Thanks mate! I still need to put in an order at tps anyway so I can add these to the list if they're a decent price.

[somersetdub 0]

I'm running a VT gearbox mount and I can definitely say that it does increase gearbox whine. I really wasn't too keen at first, but the more I've driven with it, the more I've realised that I like it.

The biggest benefit is much smoother gear changes, along with improved handling.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

/\ Absolutely.

 

OEMs have to meet certain NVH criteria (Noise, Vibration & Harshness) and VW have always fitted really soggy, shyte engine mounts. Probably because their engines have always been mechanically coarse until they started using balancer shafts on the recent cars.

 

Soft engine mounts increase driveshaft wear, because they promote wheel hop on hard launches / during wheel spinning. Exhaust flex joints prematurely wear out as well. Not to mention vague and notchy gearshifts and 200+Kg of dead mass shunting around during cornering.

 

Stiffer mounts give benefits all round but not everyone can live with the NVH compromise.

 

Fitting MK4 shoulder mounts + dogbone was always on the agenda for my Corrado, but I never got round to it unfortunately. I don't think it would be difficult to do to be honest. The only snag is there is no dogbone mounting point on the O2A gearbox, but that's a good excuse to upgrade to a 02J or a 6 speed 02S :D

 

The reason the MK4 onwards mounting system is better than the MK3/Corrado's is because of the engine movement arc. Perches vs Pendulum. In the Corrado VR6, you have ~220Kg of engine and gearbox perched on 3 mounts. When you give it the beans, the arc of movement is huge and that much weight rocking back and forth and side to side, from a low mounting point, impacts the handling. In the MK4, the engine is suspended and a pendulum swings instead of rocking, and pendulums are stable and concentrate the weight on a lower C of G for improved dynamics. A drawing would explain this far better than I can, but I can't be bothered :D

 

So that's my tip to any long term Corradoistas...... fit MK4 mounts. I would also keep the Corrado front mount as well as adding a dogbone. Holding the motor in 4 places will increase NVH, but significantly reduce movement.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Kevin Bacon

[maff 10]

TPS want £46 for a mount so I got a mate to get me one for £23 through gsf, for the miles I do in the car it should be fine

[Kevin Bacon 5]

You'll be changing it again in 6 months

[maff 10]

I'll probably just manage 500 miles in six months! but yeah you might be right, I feel like I should've gone oem for an extra £20, just got so much else to buy also at the mo

[seanl82 23]

The vibratechnics mounts are around the £85 ea for GB and rear, so even tps is half the price of them. Hmmmm, decisions.............

[somersetdub 0]

Maybe when you come over Sean, I'll take you out in mine so you can hear/feel the difference yourself?

Mine has the VT front and gearbox mounts, with a poly group buy rear mount.

[seanl82 23]

Sounds good, thanks Theo! I'll be interested to hear you opinion on them, and it'll be the first time I'd be out in someone elses!

[maff 10]

/\ Absolutely.

 

OEMs have to meet certain NVH criteria (Noise, Vibration & Harshness) and VW have always fitted really soggy, shyte engine mounts. Probably because their engines have always been mechanically coarse until they started using balancer shafts on the recent cars.

 

Soft engine mounts increase driveshaft wear, because they promote wheel hop on hard launches / during wheel spinning. Exhaust flex joints prematurely wear out as well. Not to mention vague and notchy gearshifts and 200+Kg of dead mass shunting around during cornering.

 

Stiffer mounts give benefits all round but not everyone can live with the NVH compromise.

 

Fitting MK4 shoulder mounts + dogbone was always on the agenda for my Corrado, but I never got round to it unfortunately. I don't think it would be difficult to do to be honest. The only snag is there is no dogbone mounting point on the O2A gearbox, but that's a good excuse to upgrade to a 02J or a 6 speed 02S :D

 

The reason the MK4 onwards mounting system is better than the MK3/Corrado's is because of the engine movement arc. Perches vs Pendulum. In the Corrado VR6, you have ~220Kg of engine and gearbox perched on 3 mounts. When you give it the beans, the arc of movement is huge and that much weight rocking back and forth and side to side, from a low mounting point, impacts the handling. In the MK4, the engine is suspended and a pendulum swings instead of rocking, and pendulums are stable and concentrate the weight on a lower C of G for improved dynamics. A drawing would explain this far better than I can, but I can't be bothered :D

 

So that's my tip to any long term Corradoistas...... fit MK4 mounts. I would also keep the Corrado front mount as well as adding a dogbone. Holding the motor in 4 places will increase NVH, but significantly reduce movement.

 

Good advice kev, you obviously know your stuff:-) and i may just cancel my order with gsf and go with the oem from tps, thing is they had to order one in and i wanted it sorted for the weekend, gsf had one on the shelf

[clumpy1 11]

Kev know's his stuff from experience of "doing it" matt have a read of his member's thread it's an eye opener considering the amount of work he done himself and what does he do for a living "I'm in IT mate" :notworthy:

[maff 10]

Yeah top info and much appreciated, but alway a bit worried about fitting mk4 parts. Time is a big thing for me and would love to lock myself away in a unit with ramps and tools but i wish! I just want to get driving the car at the mo and can't enjoy the car without worrying about the engine mounting and exhaust blowing so itching to get it fixed this weekend:-D

[clumpy1 11]

Can't blame you matt I wish mine was done would love a drive down to ultimate dub's would love to see the look's on people's face's when me and Goldie went by them. Good luck Micheal I'm sure you will get another trophy.

[fla 9]

I'm running a VT gearbox mount and I can definitely say that it does increase gearbox whine. I really wasn't too keen at first, but the more I've driven with it, the more I've realised that I like it.

The biggest benefit is much smoother gear changes, along with improved handling.

What is the feasibility of fitting a rubber fillet between the mount a nd the chassis to reduce noise?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

/\ Tried that, didn't help :)

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence Clumpy :D And yeah, cars are just a hobby for me. Not sure I could work on them every day!

 

Yeah I'll be honest, the MK4 mount conversion is a tad extreme but it is a better way to hold and engine in place for those who like a little project :D

 

I've tried loads of mounts as I'm really picky about NVH. The best setup in terms of outright performance was Vibratechnics competition front mount, fast road rear and competition gearbox. The gearshift is just in a different league to a soggy mounted engine and a still engine round tight corners was great too. It did whine a lot and harshness increased. For a daily road car, competition front, fast road rear and fast road gearbox was about as far as I'd go for noise and harshness.

 

Vibra front and rear + OEM gearbox took away a considerable amount of the noise and harshness (the gearbox transmits the most noise and vibration) but as mentioned previously, as the engine gets hot, the rubber heats up and the gearshift gets sloppy again but not as bad as the GSF mount. It's because the rubber box mount is a large area of soft rubber. VT mounts use less than half the amount of rubber, so isn't as susceptible to changes of shure rating from temperature.

 

It's a difficult compromise!

 

FWIW, with 3 Vibra mounts, the NVH is worse when cold and around 2000rpm when hot. You feel a slight mechanical coarseness through the floor. At idle, cruising and giving it the big beans, hard cornering etc, the Vibras are superb.