clutch pedal to the floor

[ger040 3]

Well it had to happen my pleasures of corrado ownership been very lucky so far but it had to happen

got into the car this morning engaged reverse, then first went to get second and could not - clutch pedal was to the floor

was able to pull it back up by hand - engaged first then second, third and the clutch pedal slowly dropped to the floor again able to lift it by hand

 

what am i looking at - i assume master cylinder at least, maybe the slave cylinder - should i do both? as they are the original (92 g60)

fluid levels are fine 

when i put this car back on the road i had difficulties bleeding the system it has only covered approx 500 miles since then and the past 2 weeks 

is the first time i have driven it enthusiastically.

 

thanks in advance

 

Gerard

Edited April 23, 2020 by ger040

[Dox 23]

Mine did that for a while before the slave failed completely with fluid leaking from the bell housing. Easy job to fit too


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[tony_ack 0]

Did my slave cylinder a couple of months back. I didn't have much success with pressure bleeding or pumping the pedal, but I left it to gravity bleed and it was spot on

[fendervg 32]

Always worth doing the slave on its own first as they are cheap and easy to replace -  if there is no sign of fluid leakage around the clutch pedal and cylinder both sides of the bulkhead.

Bleeding is easy enough, either by gravity or with a pressure bleeder - there's a bleed nipple on each cylinder.

Chances are you will end up replacing the master eventually, but they can be hard and pricey to come by and there are two different types depending on year, with different pedal rod fittings. The later ones can be fitted to an earlier car, but will require changing the pedal and some clips.

Also, a company called Past Parts is able to refurbish both clutch and brake masters by boring them out and replacing the seals etc.

Edited April 23, 2020 by fendervg

[ger040 3]

thanks for the replies - just ordered a new slave cylinder - ordered a valeo one a slightly more expensive one as i now tend to stay away from anything budget

[fendervg 32]

Valeo and ATE should be good brands for the clutch slave cylinders.

[ger040 3]

well part arrived this morning and fitted it - bled easy by gravity started car

clutch pedal did not feel right - to light and seemed to be sticking towards the top upon releasing 

engaged first and second gears, reverse 

pedal has gone to the floor again 

i assume the master cylinder is next

upon removing the existing slave cylinder there was no sign of any leaks

also it has now decided not to let me engage any gears

 

[easypops 8]

This happened to me and it turned out to be the clutch fork had bent and snapped. Not easy to check sadly. I changed the slave like yourself but after that I had zero gears.

[Dox 23]

When the pedal jams, open the nipple on the slave, if there's pressure there the master is sticking, if little seeps out there's a mechanical issue with the clutch

[ger040 3]

checked the master cylinder - no fluid appeared - removed the nipple completely and looking into it i assume there is a fine mesh put a fine screwdriver

into it and fluid started to appear tightened it up again 

started car again engaged first gear with clutch pedal to the floor - car suddenly moved forward almost putting it through the roller shutter (heart in mouth moment) inches to spare!!

pedal stuck to floor again 

[ger040 3]

21 minutes ago, Dox said:

When the pedal jams, open the nipple on the slave, if there's pressure there the master is sticking, if little seeps out there's a mechanical issue with the clutch

dox engine off or on doing this?

with the engine off the is nothing from the slave cylinder nipple

[Dox 23]

It doesn't matter, you're testing why the pedal is not returning, you don't need the engine running, it doesn't need to be in gear either.

If the master is sticking there will be pressure created by the pressure plate in the hydraulic system.

If the clutch or clutch fork is jamming there will be little pressure in the hydraulics.

[ger040 3]

3 minutes ago, Dox said:

It doesn't matter, you're testing why the pedal is not returning, you don't need the engine running, it doesn't need to be in gear either.

If the master is sticking there will be pressure created by the pressure plate in the hydraulic system.

If the clutch or clutch fork is jamming there will be little pressure in the hydraulics.

done both dox,

nothing appeared at the slave cylinder bleed nipple not even a drip?

[Dox 23]

Just now, ger040 said:

done both dox,

nothing appeared at the slave cylinder bleed nipple not even a drip?

So no pressure indicates the master isn't sticking, so you have a mechanical issue with the clutch?

This is assuming the clutch pedal was stuck down when you did the test and the new slave is bled up properly?

[ger040 3]

yes dox,

i will roll it out later and start it and try to engage gears and see what happens

dont want any incidents with the shutter door 

[fendervg 32]

How did you bleed it? If it's gravity only, you would ideally have a second person carefully pumping or operating the pedal by hand. I usually use a pressure bleeder on low pressure to do it on my own.

Assuming the reservoir is topped up, with the slave bleed nipple open you should get at least some fluid through when the pedal is pushed down - as the master push rod goes in, the one in the slave should be actuated by the same amount as it's a closed hydraulic system - hence with the nipple open, you should see fluid.

Dox may be on to something though with the clutch fork - that can definitely cause a no gear engagement problem.

[ger040 3]

2 hours ago, fendervg said:

How did you bleed it? If it's gravity only, you would ideally have a second person carefully pumping or operating the pedal by hand. I usually use a pressure bleeder on low pressure to do it on my own.

Assuming the reservoir is topped up, with the slave bleed nipple open you should get at least some fluid through when the pedal is pushed down - as the master push rod goes in, the one in the slave should be actuated by the same amount as it's a closed hydraulic system - hence with the nipple open, you should see fluid.

Dox may be on to something though with the clutch fork - that can definitely cause a no gear engagement problem.

Hello Fendervg.

Funny you should bring it up about having a second person this evening i spoke to a vag tech from a local dealership who set the timing on this car and 

the first thing he said is these cars should be bled using a pressure bleeder as gravity bleeding or using the 2 man method is not ideal.

He told me not to change anything else until the entire system has been pressure bled and luckily he has a vag one at home and has kindly offered

to let me borrow it

the slave cylinder i took off showed no signs of leakage

As i have done only a few hundred miles i am beginning to think has air been trapped in the system as has just began to show itself?

[fendervg 32]

It could probably do with a good bleed and new fluid by the sounds of things. I've always used a pressure bleeder on the Corrado because of the ABS setup, but have bled an Audi Coupe Quattro which has a similar slave/master set-up by hand plenty of times.

The hydro clutch system is separate to the brake circuit, although both are fed from the same reservoir, so they can be easily bled independently.

[tony_ack 0]

On 4/23/2020 at 2:46 PM, tony_ack said:

Did my slave cylinder a couple of months back. I didn't have much success with pressure bleeding or pumping the pedal, but I left it to gravity bleed and it was spot on

Sorry, this was misleading when I read it back - I did pump the pedal after I changed the slave - it shot the fluid out after a couple of pumps, so I tightened it up, tried the clutch, and there was no pressure until really really low down on the pedal. 

At that point, I tried the gravity bleed - reservoir cap off, overfilled it with fluid, then took the bleed screw out completely, and put a bowl under to catch the drips. I left the resevoir cap loose to equalise the pressure (not sure if the cap allows for this regardless) Nothing happened at first, but then I got a bit of a trickle, so left it to run through, occasionally topping up the resevoir to make sure it didn't dip below the clutch feed line.

The initial pumping probably re-fed the empty slave cylinder, but there was still air trapped in there, which the gravity bleed eventually sorted out. 

[ger040 3]

got this sorted today

pressure bled the system today and still the same after a few moments clutch pedal dropped to the floor

stripped the master cylinder of a parts car (9a) went to remove the cylinder from the g60 only to find its fixed using loose nuts/bolts

pain to remove as one bolt was located behind the brake servo - the 9a one had threaded studs.

connected everything up bled the system and perfect pedal operation - happy man again

i would like to replace this 28 year old part with new but no rhd cylinders are available and  online everywhere says nla.

looking at pictures the lhd looks identical to rhd ?

Does anyone know what the difference is?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fendervg 32]

Plenty of info on here if you search - here's some pointers:

https://the-corrado.net/topic/84635-vr6-clutch-master-ampslave-cylinder-recommendations/?tab=comments#comment-1006300

https://the-corrado.net/topic/82652-vr6-clutch-master-cylinder-and-pedal-replacement/?tab=comments#comment-986329

https://the-corrado.net/topic/83415-replacement-clutch-master-cylinder-question/?tab=comments#comment-994400

Early ATE type for RHS id NLA, there is a Brembo version around - it's possible to fit the later type but needs changing of the pedal and the clips as the pushrod mounting is different. Or you can get PastParts to refurbish an old one. The LHD is different because their ABS pump setup is on the cylinder itself, and the mounting points are also different.  THe VR6 RHD drive ABS cylinder has less outlets. It's possible to fit others by blanking off some of the parts and messing around with the mounting points.

[ger040 3]

3 hours ago, fendervg said:

Plenty of info on here if you search - here's some pointers:

https://the-corrado.net/topic/84635-vr6-clutch-master-ampslave-cylinder-recommendations/?tab=comments#comment-1006300

https://the-corrado.net/topic/82652-vr6-clutch-master-cylinder-and-pedal-replacement/?tab=comments#comment-986329

https://the-corrado.net/topic/83415-replacement-clutch-master-cylinder-question/?tab=comments#comment-994400

Early ATE type for RHS id NLA, there is a Brembo version around - it's possible to fit the later type but needs changing of the pedal and the clips as the pushrod mounting is different. Or you can get PastParts to refurbish an old one. The LHD is different because their ABS pump setup is on the cylinder itself, and the mounting points are also different.  THe VR6 RHD drive ABS cylinder has less outlets. It's possible to fit others by blanking off some of the parts and messing around with the mounting points.

thanks fendervg.

 

last night i fed into my computer the rhd part number and all that came back was nla the brembo one looks good and a decent manufacturer

i will see if gsf have one - i think they are only supplying registered trade accounts only at the moment

[fendervg 32]

Just be aware that the Brembo one has the round hook ring for the early style clutch pedal, and won't fit a later assembly with the white clip piece and ball joint. You can retrogit the parts needed to take a late one. If I can find the Brembo box I'll make a note of the part# and post it.

[ger040 3]

1 hour ago, fendervg said:

Just be aware that the Brembo one has the round hook ring for the early style clutch pedal, and won't fit a later assembly with the white clip piece and ball joint. You can retrogit the parts needed to take a late one. If I can find the Brembo box I'll make a note of the part# and post it.

my car has the earlier type - appreciate if you could get the part number

[fendervg 32]

Just came across the original GSF invoice for the clutch master - dated 08/06/2017.

The part is manufactured by Brembo, came in a branded box, GSF part# 716VG20, OEM part# 357721401 and cost €58.00 less VAT.

Should fit early VR6 models with the round ring fitting at the pedal end.

Hope this helps someone.