16vG60 strange trouble: Fine starting, well idling, dies when reach 90'C

[Corraptor_evo_evo 0]

Hi everybody!

 

Sorry for my English, I'm from România.

 

I have a Corrado G60. As a matter of fact now it's a 16vG60 Syncro.

SETUP

I have installed:

PG block,KR head with ported and polished intakes and outletsABF shortened intake runners,Audi S2 rods and pistons,Audi fuel rail,4bar FPR,stock green G60 injectors.Beru UPT12P (or UPT11P)

Regarding the G-lader, it is Stage 4 ported and polished, so with a 72mm pulley my boost gauge ("Stack") show me 1,2 bar boost.

 

I'm running with Digifant1 ECU&harness with a 16vG60 chip from Bartek Tuning Gmbh.

 

TROUBLES:

 

The engine starting well, idling good (babbling sometimes and strong gas smelling) powerfully driving with good acceleration. But when the oil reach 80-82 Celsius deg MFA reading (aprox. 90 Celsius deg @coolant), the engine starting to die... During 30 seconds the idle reduces gradually to 0 (zero) but I can keep it alive pumping the gas pedal but with harsh running engine. Hard to start again. Same things happens if I'm driving. But with some black smoke during acceleration

If I let cooling the engine just for some minutes, the engine starts and idling normally but stops again in the same manner in the moment of reaching the same temperature.

Find the spark plugs carbon fouled, regardless the moment I chosed to check.

Generally, it seems the engine is working rich until coolant reach 90'C and lean after that.

WHAT I HAVE TRYED/CHECKED (unsuccessfully):

Checked the groundings of the ECU and O2 sensor.another new sensors (BTS, O2)another checked CO2potanother checked Throttle switchesanother checked ECU with the same 16vG60 chip, borrowed from a friend of mine. Working well on it's car.another fuse/relay paneldismantled the engine bay loom and checked the continuity of all wires from the ECU connector to all sensors and switches connectors (pin to pin and pin by pin)cleaned the injectorschanged the fuel pump. Not new, took from a KR engine. I have a good pressure gauge on the fuel rail, a could check it just at idle or revving the engine on the spot, not driving. (But if the engine is working properly at high rpm under 90'C, I believe the fuel pump is working properly and over this threshold.)checked the impedance of the ignition coil, ignition wires, connectors.

 

WHAT I DID NOT

- check the VOLTAGE AND IMPEDANCE THAT REACHES THE ECU FROM THE SENSORS AND SWITCHES TO THE ECU PINS

- WHAT DOES THE FUEL PUMP DO WHEN THE PHENOMENON APPEARS

- EXACT IGNITION ADVANCE.

 

Anyone can tell me what should I do to fix that?

[Bauhaus 3]

Sounds like a classic Blue temperature Sensor problem (BTS) Make sure its a quality blue sensor and check the wiring from the sensor to the ecu, very often the wiring just before the sensor plug is cracked due to the heat and the wires get corroded.

[VEEDUBBED 0]

When i built my 2.0 9A 16v engine it would only work using a st.5 SNS eprom, all the rest were rubbish in comparison. Night and day difference between SLS and other off the shelf chips. Also remember that the sns chip programming eliminates the infamous 'Digilag' that's present on every original and aftermarket eprom.

Probably not related to your problem but i'd check the fuel pump voltage under load too, the g60 Digifant harnesses are getting quite old now.. 

[1xshaunx1 27]

I would think it’s the maf as the ecu switches from cold map at about 80 Celsius and if the maf is goosed or dirty it can’t read the air properly, fuels incorrectly and bad running is the result. 

[VEEDUBBED 0]

I've yet to see a G60 fitted with a MAF..

[fla 9]

On 12/15/2021 at 10:07 PM, 1xshaunx1 said:

I would think it’s the maf as the ecu switches from cold map at about 80 Celsius and if the maf is goosed or dirty it can’t read the air properly, fuels incorrectly and bad running is the result. 

I think thats for a VR Shaun? Happy to be corrected though

Hasan

[1xshaunx1 27]

23 hours ago, VEEDUBBED said:

I've yet to see a G60 fitted with a MAF..

 

5 hours ago, fla said:

I think thats for a VR Shaun? Happy to be corrected though

Hasan

😂😂🤣🤣 I don’t have or have ever worked on a g60 engine,  but as it has an ecu I thought it would have a maf. So lesson there is, don’t know 100%, keep out. Cheers

[Corraptor_evo_evo 0]

Thanks for advices but as I already said I had changed the BTS. A new OEM one. Furthermore, I replaced with one from an similar engine and setup which works... on THAT engine. I measured the resistance on the BTS pins, cold and warm, and it's the same at the ECU pins: 300 Ohms @ 80'C.
I had cleaned the CO2 pot, of course.
And I checked and overhauled all the wires where was necessary.
No improvements.

I didn't check the fuel pump voltage under load. But I have the same 3,5 bar @ fuel pressure gauge revving the engine around the redline on the spot. Maybe tomorrow... It is very cold in my yard, I don't have a garage🤧...

I have a narrow band A/FR from GlowShift. It show me 19,8 or 20.0 all time from cold to warm engine! Sometimes, around 40'C, it slowly decrease (in 4-5 minutes) to 12,1 then, after 2-3 minutes it increasing again to 20.0. I installed it on O2 Sensor signal wire. I don't know if I can trust it.

 I forgot to tell you something important. The problems started since a friend of mine "helped" me welding a tips and he forgot to remove the battery. But since them I've made the checking and replacements as I've described.

Please, another ideas? Any kind!! Doesn't matter how probabilistically small it's looks...!
I'm really desperate...

[Dox 22]

Suck

Squeeze

Bang

Blow

What's missing when the car dies?

Does it have compression?

Spark? Ignition colis are prone to failure when hot

Fuel (wet plugs after cranking)?

[Bauhaus 3]

On 12/12/2021 at 4:28 PM, Corraptor_evo_evo said:

Hi everybody!

 

Sorry for my English, I'm from România.

 

I have a Corrado G60. As a matter of fact now it's a 16vG60 Syncro.

SETUP

I have installed:

PG block,KR head with ported and polished intakes and outletsABF shortened intake runners,Audi S2 rods and pistons,Audi fuel rail,4bar FPR,stock green G60 injectors.Beru UPT12P (or UPT11P)

Regarding the G-lader, it is Stage 4 ported and polished, so with a 72mm pulley my boost gauge ("Stack") show me 1,2 bar boost.

 

I'm running with Digifant1 ECU&harness with a 16vG60 chip from Bartek Tuning Gmbh.

 

TROUBLES:

 

The engine starting well, idling good (babbling sometimes and strong gas smelling) powerfully driving with good acceleration. But when the oil reach 80-82 Celsius deg MFA reading (aprox. 90 Celsius deg @coolant), the engine starting to die... During 30 seconds the idle reduces gradually to 0 (zero) but I can keep it alive pumping the gas pedal but with harsh running engine. Hard to start again. Same things happens if I'm driving. But with some black smoke during acceleration

 

Checked the groundings of the ECU and O2 sensor.another new sensors (BTS, O2)another checked CO2potanother checked Throttle switchesanother checked ECU with the same 16vG60 chip, borrowed from a friend of mine. Working well on it's car.another fuse/relay paneldismantled the engine bay loom and checked the continuity of all wires from the ECU connector to all sensors and switches connectors (pin to pin and pin by pin)cleaned the injectorschanged the fuel pump. Not new, took from a KR engine. I have a good pressure gauge on the fuel rail, a could check it just at idle or revving the engine on the spot, not driving. (But if the engine is working properly at high rpm under 90'C, I believe the fuel pump is working properly and over this threshold.)checked the impedance of the ignition coil, ignition wires, connectors.

 

 

This does sound like your over fuelling, so your pump is probably ok, as you have checked your sensors etc, but have you got the correct O2 sensor for a G60 ? as some generic ones give a different output to what the ECU can deal with, also and what injectors are you using ?

Also Is this a new build ?  if so check your valve timing is correct.

[Corraptor_evo_evo 0]

Theese days I had checked again the resistivity (Ohms) and voltages (Volts) to all sensors and contacts, all wires, all pins, pin-by-pin of all connectors, including the ECU connectors pins (with all the connectors plugedin and ignition ON) and the F, G1, G2 and S connectors from the electric panel... All input or output values (ohms & volts) and wiring continuity at cold and warm engine are in the normal ranges "by the book". I've checked again the ignition, coil, wires, spark plugs. Just the timing is not exactly fixed.
I've replaced the oil, even the engine doesn't worked more than 1.000 km. The engine is brand new overhauled. New pistons, new rings etc. BUT THE ENGINE STILL DOESN'T WORK WELL! STILL DIES WHEN IS WARM!
There is just one single issue/glitch I found, but I don't know if this can be the cause of my trouble... When I've checked the wire continuity on the pin No.1 I'd find there IS continuity and it must be NOT (with or w/o ignition ON).

[Bauhaus 3]

By saying the "just timing is not exactly fixed" you may have answered your problem your having.

Not sure what this pin 1 is your checking but if it is the ECU then this pin goes +12 when starting / cranking only

[Corraptor Erca 0]

Thank you, Bauhaus!

Maybe tomorrow I'll check and adjust the right timing. Hope to solve it!

Merry Christmas!

I don't know why I can',t reply my own thread but just as a visitor. Maybe I'll get some help by the moderator.. .