Brakes - how can i make them better

[Gman 0]

I know this has been discussed before but here goes again

 

I have a standard 1.8 16v on standard 15" wheels and the brakes are SH*T. The pedal feels like porridge (and a bit spongy). The disc's are a bit worn but not worn out. Not had a look at the pads yet but I am sure there is a little bit of taper wear on them.

I can still lock the wheels (don’t have ABS)

 

What can I do to make them better? Would TT callipers work on the front and back? Or Mk 4 callipers (not sure if they are different to the TT).

 

The bottom line is I want better feeling brakes for as cheap as pos. (I am a student)

 

G

[dinkus 10]

I know this has been discussed before but here goes again

 

I have a standard 1.8 16v on standard 15" wheels and the brakes are SH*T. The pedal feels like porridge (and a bit spongy). The disc's are a bit worn but not worn out. Not had a look at the pads yet but I am sure there is a little bit of taper wear on them.

I can still lock the wheels (don’t have ABS)

 

What can I do to make them better? Would TT callipers work on the front and back? Or Mk 4 callipers (not sure if they are different to the TT).

 

The bottom line is I want better feeling brakes for as cheap as pos. (I am a student)

 

I know that the Pagid FR pads with the standard VAG disks do wonders for stopping power and pedal feel on the VR, but I'm not sure if you can get them for the valver.

 

Changing the brake fluid could also help the pedal feel out if it's not been done recently...

[Linus Van Pelt 0]

I had this conversation with someone myself recently, and staying away from the obvious expensive options, I was told that G60 calipers at the front with Mk4 Golf calipers at the back (with some slight modifcations to the brake lines) was the way forward... (together with better discs!). I'm still waiting for a costing on this, so no idea how cheap/expensive this will be (but should be less than brembo et al).

 

Saying that though, the front brakes are doing most of the braking, so I'd look at changing those first... ;)

 

LvP.

[dr_mat 0]

I've also been told that something like the goodridge braided hose set can improve pedal feel a good amount. The standard flexi lines, particularly when they get a bit old, can cause a bit a sponginess. And that's a £60 modification.. Not many are that cheap! Your brake fluid should be no longer than two years old anyway. If it's older than that, swap it now, before you wind up piling into a roundabout cos the brakes fail...

 

Also, make sure your handbrake is pulling up right - if the handbrake has been munged about with and it's too loose (I know the rear brakes auto-adjust, but bear with me - try it) it'll make the pedal feel spongier..

 

And I've got a new set of disks and pads (all genuine VW) to go on the front very shortly, should see a good improvement based on that alone!! :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I put new VAG discs with Pagid FRs on the front last weekend and they're just about bedded in now. Awesome. It is definitely the best partnership around at the moment. And did you know VAG discs are actually balanced?

 

My old Pagid grooved discs were warped and not balanced, so putting the flat VAG ones on has transformed the front end feel.

[dinkus 10]

I put new VAG discs with Pagid FRs on the front last weekend and they're just about bedded in now. Awesome. It is definitely the best partnership around at the moment. And did you know VAG discs are actually balanced?

 

My old Pagid grooved discs were warped and not balanced, so putting the flat VAG ones on has transformed the front end feel.

 

If it aint broke don't fix it :) Go with the VAG stuff unless there is something that gives a proven improvement.

 

Another quite major thing that could be causing lousy braking is if your rear brake caliper(s) have ceased as it's quite common.

[Gman 0]

Another quite major thing that could be causing lousy braking is if your rear brake caliper(s) have ceased as it's quite common.

 

how do you tell if that has happend. My car had new rears just before i bought it but the handbrake is shit. have to pull it on darn hard to get it to stop the car from moving.

[dinkus 10]

Another quite major thing that could be causing lousy braking is if your rear brake caliper(s) have ceased as it's quite common.

 

how do you tell if that has happend. My car had new rears just before i bought it but the handbrake is s***. have to pull it on darn hard to get it to stop the car from moving.

 

Not a good sign. Apart from watching the caliper as someone applies the handbrake, the best way to check is to see if the small amount of rust you get on the disk after it's been raining disappears after a little run.

[Gman 0]

Does anyone know if the TT rears are the same as teh golf rears.

I really want to get them sorted.

 

G

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I thought TTs had vented 256 discs at the rear?

[Gman 0]

Any idea on the capacity of the brake system.

[Supercharged 2]

Any idea on the capacity of the brake system.

 

If you mean fluid then 2 litres should do it

[bighairymuppet 0]

You could start by getting new pads and getting the brakes redone whilst they have the caliper off (ie reworked to free them off if they are at all sticky) . Also the brakes will get bled which will make a hell of a difference (id ask for the fluid to be completely replaced) as there may be air bubbles which can cause it to be spongy.

 

Check your discs for grooves or pitts if they have any change them unless its only very very slight. oh btw putting new pads on fairly worn/warped or grooved discs is pointless as you'll just end up wearing your pads unevenly and quickly and end up with less braking yet again.

 

Are the rears definetly new? check them a s well just in case.

 

As for adjusting the handbrake it definetly makes a difference but you'll need to decide on whether the handbrake has any adjustment left.

 

Also, make sure your handbrake is pulling up right - if the handbrake has been munged about with and it's too loose (I know the rear brakes auto-adjust, but bear with me - try it) it'll make the pedal feel spongier..

no idea why but it does make the pedal feel better.

 

As for changing hoses changing to new set of rubber ones instead of braided wouldn't go amiss either as its cheaper, however this depends on the difference between them and braided as braided will last longer and work better in the long run.

 

Basically check how badly corroded the hoses connectings ends are and how bad the rubber is and decide whether they need replaced or not , they mighth not need replacing.

 

Getting the calipers reworked , handbrake adjusted and the pads changed should make a hell of a difference and not cost too much. however bear in mind what i said above about disks ,cables and hoses. Check them all and decide for yourself.

 

Ive replaced both my front and rear disc +bearings and pads and handbrake cable etc..

and these are the prices i found (mostly from autosave, some ebay)

 

rear discs £15 each

rear bearings £11 (i think it was actually more like £8 in the end but can't remeber).

 

Pads £15 ish full set

front discs pair £25 standard vented,

brake hose £13 each

handbrake cable

 

Cost me £30 for the labour for front and £30 for back was going to do it myself but dont have garage or jack i trust. Plus there always a bearing press which i aint got.

 

I know this isn't all that cheap but for what i got done and the way i had to do it i dont feel burned.

[bighairymuppet 0]

As for checking the rear brakes try putting the handbrake on with one wheel jacked up and try turning it by hand. If it turns up until the handbrake is really high then its likely to need a new cable or adjustment.

 

If it keeps turning all the way up then your caliper is ceased off (it may be reworked but could be buggered you'll need to take them off to check them.

 

If you put the handbrake off and try to turn it and you feel it grating and then leting go it may be a bit stiff. If however its grating a lot its locked on and the pads will be be worn.

 

repeat for other side.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yep, as Bighairymuppet said, take your time to inspect the calipers and goodridge hoses are a good idea to improve pedal feel too.

 

With the front calipers, strip the sliding pin assemblies, check the rubber belows for cracks and splits and replace as neccesary. Then lube the pins with some copper grease. Also check the pad and disc wear. All 4 pads should display uniform wear. If one pad is thicker than the other, you have a siezed caliper.

 

For a really good setup and has been mentioned numerous times, use VAG discs which are balanced (lesser ones aren't) and pagid fast road pads, making sure there is absolutely no grease or dirt on the discs during assembly. Also sand down the hub mating surface so it's dead flat to avoid high spotting of the discs.

 

On a very slight incline.. the car should roll freely. If not, caliper binding is occurring.

 

Hope that helps and apologies for repeating anything already said.

[Gman 0]

That is all great. Am going to bleed the system tomorrow (today even) and will check all the things mentioned above out.

Might replace the front discs. If I can find some cash.

 

I after messing with the car today I have decided the rears are not ceased it is just the handbrake cable that needs adjustment. Where is it adjusted? (Probably obvious but while I am here thought I would ask)

 

Thanks for the help.

 

G

[dr_mat 0]

Handbrake cable adjustment is at the handbrake end. It's a bit of a pain, you have to dismantle most of the plastics around the centre tunnel to get to it, but once there there's a couple of nuts to adjust the cable position against the handle mechanism.. It should be fairly obvious, it's just a pain to get to.

[Gman 0]

Thanks

 

I was kinda hoping it would be at the rear of the car ( so i didnt have to dismatle all. Oh well the things i do for this car. :)

 

G

[bighairymuppet 0]

gman any update? howd u get on?

[Gman 0]

Hey

yeah I blead the brakes but the pedal feel is not much better. there was very little air in the system. rear brakes are good and working. handbrake needs fixing. I reckon new discs and pads on the front will be the ans.

 

I think the biggest problem is all the other cars I drive are brand new (except the lotus which is but isn't) and they all have decent brakes. I would like to get a sort of TT type brake feel but at very little cost.

[bighairymuppet 0]

new discs +pads on the front should make a hell of a differnece as the majority of the braking is the front.

 

hope all goes well.

8)