Timing Chains

[oxfordpaul 0]

I read posts on here concerned about the timing chains - is it wise to replace as a precaution, i.e does something suddenly break that causes damage or is it just a case of if there is noise from the right hand side of the engine? Mine has done 117,000 miles and has never had them done but drives like a dream with no odd noises (touch wood!!). Please advise!!

[dr_mat 0]

They seem to last okay unless they're flapping around - and they only flap around if the tensioners are gone. If there's no noises at that side of the engine, don't worry about them. If you find yourself having to replace the clutch, do the chains at the same time - since the clutch has to come off to do the chains it makes sense to hit both at the same time.

[davebirl 0]

I rang agnews in Belfast to enquire about replacing my chains and they said not to. If the car is ok and running fine without odd noises and serviced regular, there was nothing to worry about. Are they fobbing me off cos they don't want the hassle? Stealth and Ns Racing reckoned I should replace them asap. There is 102k miles on her now and everything appears to be perfect.

[dr_mat 0]

They VERY rarely snap. They do skip teeth, but only when the tensioners are badly worn. Don't worry about it if you can't hear anything. If in doubt, get someone to take a look at the state of the top tensioner pad. If it's worn, replace them.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Complete bollards.

 

The chains not making a noise means nothing. Visual inspection is the *only* definitive answer.

 

Mine were silent at 93K but the upper tensioner was almost worn through. If I hadn't lifted the rocker cover and checked that when fitting the Schrick, I'd be landed with a big bill round about now.....

 

That isn't to say *all* VRs will be in the same boat though but you must look at the top tensioner to be sure. I drive mine very hard and wore the tensioner pad down within 20K as I had it checked when I bought the car at 73K. Stealth looked at it and said I had 20K left....and they were damn right.

 

Out of interest, I discovered the other day VW sell a complete VR6 engine for £1750+ VAT with the *MK4 solid tensioner system* fitted as standard :shock:

 

When doing the chains, don't bother with the standard tensioners, they're cr@p. Use MK4 stuff.

[Tekara 0]

Is it best to get the Mk4 solid tensioner system fitted as a replacement ? Any ideas as to cost for the parts

[dr_mat 0]

Complete bollards.

 

I see Kev is in ebulliant mood once more. Had a couple of beers?? ;)

 

The chains not making a noise means nothing. Visual inspection is the *only* definitive answer.

Yep, agreed. But if it's not making a noise, that's a *good* sign.

 

Mine were silent at 93K but the upper tensioner was almost worn through.

 

Well my upper tensioner *was* worn down so far that the chain was riding on the rivet, and it was rattling, and it had been doing that for 15k miles..! I'll bet there's TONS of VR6 engines out there with 100k+ miles on that have never had the chains touched, and that have NOT had major failures. (Of course, it'll happen eventually, but please don't assume the worst.)

 

Out of interest, I discovered the other day VW sell a complete VR6 engine for £1750+ VAT with the *MK4 solid tensioner system* fitted as standard :shock:

 

Well that IS interesting, a whole VR6 engine for £1750+VAT? Almost makes it pointless paying AMD (or VW come to think of it) £1000+VAT to replace the timing chains, doesn't it?

 

Last I heard VW wanted over £3k for a new VR6 engine - what's going on? They getting generous in their old age?? :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Absolutely.

 

MK4 tensioner parts are cheaper than the old stuff anyway.

 

MK4 upper tensioner - £6.50

Old part - £21

 

MK4 hydraulic/Spring tensioner - £20

Old hydraulic only part - £30

 

The rest of the chain gear is normal Corrado stuff. It's only the old top tensioner that causes problems and the chains can become slack.

 

To check them:-

 

Lift the rocker cover.

Check the chain span across the two cam wheels. It should be tight. If there's vertical play, the chains are worn. Mine had nearly 1cm vertical play :shock:

Remove the tensioning bolt from the back of the head with a 27mm socket.

Push the upper tensioner back and look for 2 deep scores and orange residude around the chains from the plethonic pad coating. Also check the upper two rivets that hold the plethonic pad to the metal backing plate. If they're scratched and you can see deep scoring on the pad, get some money together ASAP.

 

If you're at 100K or thereabouts and there's no visual wear, plan to do the job within the next 15-20K tops because the plethonic (resin) pad only takes about 10-15K to wear through once it starts pitting.

 

K

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well that IS interesting, a whole VR6 engine for £1750+VAT? Almost makes it pointless paying AMD (or VW come to think of it) £1000+VAT to replace the timing chains, doesn't it?

 

That's what C&R reckon at least. They say they never rebuild a VR engine. They just stick a whole new unit in from VW at the price quoted...plus labour obviously.

 

Maybe it's just C&R that get them at that price but they made a point of mentioning the MK4 tensioners being a standard fit on VW replacement engines, so it seems the old method is renowned for being a weakness.

 

But are they built to the same standards as Stealth? Especially when I hear of conrods and camshaft bearings being fitted incorrectly - at the factory :roll:

[Tekara 0]

Thanks Kev, will remember to ask for Mk4 parts when i get that job done. Better start saving for the job now and ive not even bought another VR6 yet :)

[Supercharged 2]

Kev, Yes thats what they said to me, he said he would always recomend a new engine rather than rebuild especially if increasing power...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Kev, Yes thats what they said to me, he said he would always recomend a new engine rather than rebuild especially if increasing power...

 

Yeah I thought I'd stick what the old Cresswell said to you in as that's a damn good price for a complete engine!

[Supercharged 2]

Plus the fact that it all comes complete so no messing around with headgaskets and timing...

[dinkus 10]

Kev, Yes thats what they said to me, he said he would always recomend a new engine rather than rebuild especially if increasing power...

 

Yeah I thought I'd stick what the old Cresswell said to you in as that's a damn good price for a complete engine!

 

But is it a 2.8 or a 2.9 lump?

[yellowslc 0]

Agreed, always upgrade to the mk4 style parts. 1750lbs for a complete rebuilt OEM engine? Seems very very inexpensive.

 

R

[davebirl 0]

Sorry to bring this up again guys. My local VW garage are gonna replace my water pump belt and timing chain gear next week.

 

Can anyone give me the part numbers of the MKIV tensioner parts?

 

Should I bite the bullet and replace chain and guides aswell as the tensioners?

 

I'm getting the new VW chain for around €150 euros which is very little and the smaller chain for €70 euros.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

 

 

Absolutely.

 

MK4 tensioner parts are cheaper than the old stuff anyway.

 

MK4 upper tensioner - £6.50

Old part - £21

 

MK4 hydraulic/Spring tensioner - £20

Old hydraulic only part - £30

 

The rest of the chain gear is normal Corrado stuff. It's only the old top tensioner that causes problems and the chains can become slack.

 

To check them:-

 

Lift the rocker cover.

Check the chain span across the two cam wheels. It should be tight. If there's vertical play, the chains are worn. Mine had nearly 1cm vertical play :shock:

Remove the tensioning bolt from the back of the head with a 27mm socket.

Push the upper tensioner back and look for 2 deep scores and orange residude around the chains from the plethonic pad coating. Also check the upper two rivets that hold the plethonic pad to the metal backing plate. If they're scratched and you can see deep scoring on the pad, get some money together ASAP.

 

If you're at 100K or thereabouts and there's no visual wear, plan to do the job within the next 15-20K tops because the plethonic (resin) pad only takes about 10-15K to wear through once it starts pitting.

 

K

[dr_mat 0]

Water pump belt and timing chain gear?

Opposite ends of the engine!

You've made your mind up that you're gonna have the T/C done then? You didn't seem to think it was making any noises. I hope you've had it checked, this isn't a repair that you do "for fun"..

[Rpmayne 0]

Looking at the prices I got mine rebuilt for, I'd say £1750 is an absolute steal. Take it that means only head and block with no manifolds, water pump, injectors etc but still, if I were specialising is VR rebuilds I'd be abit worried. Wish I'd heard that about 6months ago, I have a completely rebuilt 3.0VR which cost the best part of £5000, a few technical hitches on the way granted. :?

[davebirl 0]

There is definitley no strange noises etc. I am totally for prevention rather than cure. There is 107k on my VR6 and want to get the belt and tensioners replaced before any kind of failures. I have never spared any expensive on making sure the car is tip top at all times. My local VW garage are mates of mine and we kind of operate on an barter system regards labour. They fix car and I fix computers! lol works out pretty good.

 

So, still looking for those MKIV parts number if any knows them. Cheers

 

Water pump belt and timing chain gear?

Opposite ends of the engine!

You've made your mind up that you're gonna have the T/C done then? You didn't seem to think it was making any noises. I hope you've had it checked, this isn't a repair that you do "for fun"..

[pablo_vr6 0]

where you from dave?

[davebirl 0]

Sligo Ireland! Are u also a Paddy? lol

 

where you from dave?

[pablo_vr6 0]

aye mate :)

 

how much did agnews want for the timing job? Was reading a DIY on it and it looks doable alright. depends how much of a balls getting the box off is tho.

[davebirl 0]

Agnews don't want to touch the timing job, no way they said.If it wasn't rattling or making loud noises they weren't interested in doing anything with it.

 

Parkes here in Sligo have replaced seals in the gearbox for me before and had no trouble removing the gearbox. They are gonna do the chains job for me. They have never done it before but I know the owner / chief mechanic personally and he is excellent at his work.

 

aye mate :)

 

how much did agnews want for the timing job? Was reading a DIY on it and it looks do able alright. depends how much of a balls getting the box off is tho.

[pablo_vr6 0]

if need needs any pointers tell him to try this:

 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409

 

was reading it there and looks OK like.

[dr_mat 0]

Parkes here in Sligo have replaced seals in the gearbox for me before and had no trouble removing the gearbox. They are gonna do the chains job for me. They have never done it before but I know the owner / chief mechanic personally and he is excellent at his work.

 

:!:

 

If there were rattles or you'd had it inspected and found significant wear then of course you need to get it done sooner rather than later. Inspect first, replace if necessary. Don't believe all the scare stories though: my chains had done 117k and were close to the edge, but were rattley when they were done. There's plenty of VR6s out there that have perhaps had easier lives that are pushing 150k and only just getting to the point where they need sorting. It seems mad to condemn it now. You may have another 5 years use from the car before needing that work!

 

By all means pay a trusted garage to open up the top inspection panel and see if there's justification for taking the rest off tho, as Kev says it's theoretically feasible for wear to be there and not cause clattering, but honestly I'd leave the decision until you know for sure.

 

There's too many "might need replacing at 100k" items on Corrados to just speculatively replace them all! Can get mighty expensive! :)