My gearbox saga (finally finished)

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

I'm bringing this thread back from the past as I've now started striping my old gearbox. (need the 3.6 final drive for my 02J box) I'm doing okay so far, the flanges where a bit of an arse to remove but a big slap with a big hammer did the job in the end. :lol: I think there probably a better way of doing it though! :?

 

I think I need to buy a 6mm spline drive to get the bolts in the picture out. Anyone know if that’s the tool I need?

[24V Renshaw 0]

You need a size 60 Torx key

See my gearbox strip down thread that i never finished.

http://the-corrado.net/.archive/forum/viewtopic. ... 8&lighter=

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

WICKED!!! Thats just what I need! Cheers Jay

[24V Renshaw 0]

No worries, hope it helps.

 

Jay

[VEEDUBBED 0]

CAIOS,didn't i send you a PM about stripping down your G60 'box?,it might have been someone else..,watch out when you remove the 5th gear cogs,the teeth are VERY easy to chip and damage,also make sure you select the 2 right gears in order to lock the geartrains,i normally select 5th and 1st,by the way,i've got a spare G60 'ATA' code gearbox+R/P, already stripped out of the gearbox casings,let me know if you need it and we can do a deal.

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

Thanks VEEDUBBED. How do you select 5th and 1st?

[VEEDUBBED 0]

First use the shifter tower to select 1st gear,you'll know it's 1st by manually rotating the gearbox input shaft,the lower the gear selected,the easier the shaft will be to turn,or vice versa,then remove 5th gear's selector fork first checking the pre-load applied to the fork/syncro ring,the fork's got an elongated section with a star securing bolt,mark were it is now then when you re-build the pre-load's gonna be ok.

Manually select 5th by pushing down on the syncro,there you go,1 locked "box,1 more thing,those bolts holding the 5th gear cogs should be v.tight(Locktite...)-get a good quality star bit,don't use market stall garbage...

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

I've found an 8mb 218 pages Bentley official factory repair manual PDF for the 02A box. It’s too big to post here though. Its go every step illustrated and described! (Attached screen print of its instructions for removing fifth gear)

 

Just need to order a couple of tools today and I’m away! Will a 150mm puller be big enough? Think its maximum size is 173mm.

[Paul 8v 0]

I'm thinking of doing an 02j conversion to mine, the engine is running 216 bhp so it needs to be a bit tougher. Am i right to understand the box I need is the turbo spec one from golf/A3/bora etc. I would ideally like to fit a quaif/Peloquin LSD will i be able to change the final drive on this to cure the low ratios? how much am i looking at for all the parts of this plus labour, just a rough estimate?

Cheers

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

The problem I have is because I was sold a 20v non-turbo box by mistake. So the final drive is 4.25, but the gear ratios are the same as a VR6. Just make sure you check the gearbox code not just the 02j bit. Think mine is a CZM or something. One from any turbo 20v should be okay but check its ratios on google before you buy.

 

The diff in the 02j is a lot better than the one in the 02A. Apparently they’ve reverted back to a similar design to that used in the earlier 020’s. I get better traction even though the gears are shorter. I also think the torque steer is improved. You should be able to get an 02J box for £150 to £220. I'd give it a try on the car before you spend £500 on an LSD and then £300 fitting. 216bhp is very similar power to what I have and the 02j diff performs very well. Perhaps in the future if more engine mods are done and the powers raised I’ll change my mind. Also I think the benefit of an LSD is felt quite a bit in cornering, I’m only talking about wheel spin during acceleration with the improved 02J diff.

[Paul 8v 0]

Cool i will be on the lookout for a turbo one then, what is the problem with the 6 speed one is it the ratios or just not as tough as the 5 speed?

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

Think the problem with the 6 speed is clearance. Its to long or bulky to clear the chasis rail I think.

 

The rest of the tools I need to start on my gearbox have arrived today. Cant wait to get home and start taking it apart!! :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The diff in the 02j is a lot better than the one in the 02A. Apparently they’ve reverted back to a similar design to that used in the earlier 020’s. I get better traction even though the gears are shorter. I also think the torque steer is improved. You should be able to get an 02J box for £150 to £220.

 

Depends how you look at it, the 02A doesn't have the diff preload springs behind the CV flanges that the 020 and 02J have. These act as a mild diff lock (about 10% - explaining your traction improvement) and Peloquin offer varying degrees of lock using uprated springs, which are very easily fitted. Anything up to about 60% lock is available, but I wouldn't recommend that for anything but 1/4 mile work!!

 

Anyway, the brass washers the springs sit on can sometimes break up or split in half etc, and it was quite common on lowered cars with 020s. I don't know why VW went back to it in the 02J to be honest, but I prefer the 02A as it's just such a solid and simple box and with a Quaife it's superb. The shift quality is also far superior to the 02J's notchy, but shorter shift.

 

One glaring difference with the 02A and J is they're not 'reversed' boxes like the 020, in other words, the flywheel bolts to the crank on the A and J whereas the pressure plate bolts to the crank with 020 boxes, which needed a long pushrod right through the middle of the input shaft to release the pressure plate....very bizarre!

 

Anyway, I digress.....

 

Also I think the benefit of an LSD is felt quite a bit in cornering, I’m only talking about wheel spin during acceleration with the improved 02J diff.

 

It's a Torsen diff strictly speaking, but yeah, you notice it in corners a lot and 2 skid marks when pulling away :lol: The best bit about the torsen diff is pulling away with one wheel on sand/gravel and the on tarmac! It's wicked!

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

Cheers for puting that more tecnical explanation up Kev. I was only speaking from my own personal experience with the two boxes. ;-)

 

 

You mention that the 02j has "diff preload springs". Does that mean I dont have to preload the diff with shims when rebuilding my 02j box? (like shown in the linked G60renshaws gearbox rebuild thread)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

No worries chap, not trying to brush you aside, just sharing what I know about the boxes, having experienced all 3....

 

Diff preload...yeah, if you remove the drive flanges from an 020 or 02J, there are springs behinf them, they are a mild diff lock. The 02A doesn't use them.

 

Preloading - you don't need to worry about the springs. Just preload the diff bearings. You should be OK with the factory shims, try them first and see how far off you are but you might be surprised. Sometimes takes hours with various shims setting up the preloads but more often than not, the shims VW used are usually within spec.

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

Cheers Kev, just trying to sort a suitable puller now and hopefully I'll finally start making some progress!

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

I've got the diff and final drive out of my old box now. Found a few teeth missing from reverse and the input shaft which explains the problems I had with it. The broken teeth had made there way to the little magnet inside the box that collects any metal fileings. If you look closely at the picture you should also be able to see the wear on my 5th gear. I did make it worse with the puller but it was definetly there before I used the puller.

 

I've put most of it back togther as well. Minus the diff, flanges and fith gear. Just to check I could get all the gear selector bits working correctly again. It all works okay selecting gears. :)

 

Need to press the final drive off the diff with the help of somebodys press. Then start striping the 02j! :wink:

 

Is the final drive definitely only the cog attached to the diff? Will I not also need the cog on the output shaft that works with the big cog thats attached to the diff? (if that makes any sense!) :lol:

 

Also, the diff has a bolt missing. I didnt find one in the caseing so it looks like it always had one missing. Is that normal?

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

I dont know if anyones reading this but I may as well finish the thread off now its gone this far. I've learnt loads in this thread so it should be pritty good when people are searching the forum for gearbox info.

 

I've now got the 02j box off my car and striped down. I can see plainly that I need the cog at the very bottom of the output shaft (arrow in pic) to match up with the ring pinion (final drive). Unfortuantly this cog/gear is part of the output shaft so means striping and rebuilding the hole thing. You can see the difference in size of the output shaft bottom cog on the picture below. The final drive around the diff isnt that different in size, although I havent measured it precisely.

 

Another thing I've noticed is that although the two diffs are slightly different (flanges bolt into 02j and it has more teeth inside the diff) the 02J diff is still labeled as 02A. odd?

 

So tomorrow I'm going to see a mate who has a hydraulic press and strip and rebuild the output shaft. Wish me luck! I think I'm gonna need it! :lol: :lol:

 

I'm thinking the following gear ratios,

 

1st. 3.30 (same as vr)

2nd. 1.94 (same as vr)

3rd = 1.34 (same as G60)

4th = 1.03 (same as vr)

5th = 0.76 (Golf G60)

 

with 3.67 final drive (Golf G60), 02j diff, 02j shift mech and 02A case.

 

EDIT*

 

Which means at 6500 rpm; 1st = 36.23mph, 2nd = 61.62mph, 3rd = 89.22mph, 4th = 116.07mph, and 5th = 157.3mph (according to http://fatboyraceworks.com/gears Gear Ratio Calculator)

 

The gap in ratios between 4th and 5th may feel a bit weird but 5ths only for saving petrol on the motorway! ;-)

[ben16v 0]

i`m reading it cai

 

very complicated that looks¬¬!!!

 

well done, we`ll just wait for the Quaiffe then eh?

 

got bits for my rc car today, been changing gears today too!

 

gonna have a go at starting it in a min!!!!

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

Nice one Ben. I'll be up a grahams tomorrow, you working? Bring your RC car up!

 

Yeah its feels a bit wrong not to fit an LSD while I've got the gearbox stripped. I've got no credit cards to max out though. I'll just have to strip it again some time when I've got more money. Need a new interior, coilovers and wheels first!

 

This pic remind you of anything! I'm starting to get the hang of taking gearboxes off! :cry: :cry:

[olly elworthy 0]

excellent work your doing here,

well done for having a go yourself,, and putting it all down here so others can learn too :thumbleft:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Coming along nicely there mate!

 

Just one question about your ratios, where did you get the info about the VR ratios from? It's just that I have them down as:-

 

1st 3.78, 2nd 2.12, 3rd 1.46, 4th 1.03, 5th 0.84. Final Drive, 3.39

 

I'm not saying your're wrong and I wouldn't mind knowing for definite!

 

I'm also using the G60 diff on my VR as you know. I think you'll be pleased but personally I'd have gone for the VR 5th, but the gap between your 4th and 5th won't be as large as you think in practice.

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

Here's some of the places I've seen gearbox ratios;

 

http://www.techtonicstuning.com/TransRatios.html (american codes??)

 

Rallye http://www.dubforce.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2385

 

There more on dubforce somewhere but I cant find them now. If VR second was 2.12 you wouldnt be able to do 60 in second with the 3.68 final drive you have. Think with a 1.94 it means you can do 60 to 65 mph. Depending on wheels and rev limit. Check it out on you way home tonight?

 

I may have to use the 0.84 5th as my 0.74 fith has some wear showing on it (shown in first pic on this page). Dont know if its to warn to risk using again or not??

[CaiosG60 PWR 0]

What a day I've had! I've stripped both output shafts and both input shafts. Had a bit of a nightmare because I got all the third and fourth gears mixed up. :lol: :lol: Had to get the calculator out and work out what gears matched with what and gave the correct ratios. Eventually worked it out though!! :D I've rebuilt an output shaft and input shaft with the gear ratios I wanted. I hadnt realised at first that to change the third to a G60 one I'd need to change the input shaft as well as output shaft. Dont know if it was really worth it as I've only changed from a 1.31 third to a 1.34. A little shorter! :wink: I needed to strip the hole output shaft anyway to get half of the final drive and the input shaft was easy compared to the output shaft.

 

I've got some pictures below, a kind of mini how too. Unfortuanatly after mixing up the gears a bit I had to concentrate and stoped taking pictures. So the assembly isnt pictured sorry. Pictures arnt that good as there with a phone.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

If VR second was 2.12 you wouldnt be able to do 60 in second with the 3.68 final drive you have.

 

Yep! I'm not a 0-60 man so that doesn't bother me, I built the box (well, Vince did!) for better traction and more mid-range acceleration :lol:

 

Think with a 1.94 it means you can do 60 to 65 mph. Depending on wheels and rev limit. Check it out on you way home tonight?

 

I couldn't unfortunately as the map in my ECU still isn't correct for the charger, so I can't go over 4500 rpm :(

 

I may have to use the 0.84 5th as my 0.74 fith has some wear showing on it (shown in first pic on this page). Dont know if its to warn to risk using again or not??

 

Pitting on the teeth? I don't think it's worth worrying about.... the 3.68 diff Vince put in mine had a small amount of pitting on a few of the teeth but it didn't concern either of us. Your box will enjoy Redline MT90 (hopefully) from day one of it's build, so wear will be non existent from now on.....

 

EDIT: Ah yes, see what you mean, edges of the teeth chipped off....you're right, I wouldn't use that personally.