timing chains at 107k

[chrisw 0]

I've just been replacing the rocker cover gasket and took the upper chain cover off for an inspection on a 107k mile 94 Vr6. My car was making no noise at all and was owned for the best part of its life by a retired company director so I was hoping they would be in good order. I was fairly horrified by what I saw:

 

 

There is a crack in the guide rail and the top little bit of the plastic has snapped off as well as some fairly serious scoring.

 

Obviously I want to replace these ASAP but I am a teacher and will not get a chance until half term to do this (back to school tomorrow :cry: ) . Do you think I will be okay until then (about 2000 miles time) to just put everything back and leave it. Is this sort of crack to the guide rail common?

 

Thanks,

 

Chris W

[Will 0]

Yeah it looks pretty much in the same condition as mine. The guide rail was also cracked in exactly the same place - I'm replacing at the moment.

Bit of a gamble but I'd guess it'll last another couple of thousand.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yep, the tensioner is f'cked. It's already started breaking up.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, silent running at the top end means bugger all. The only way to be sure is to do as you've done and lift the rocker cover.

 

As always, only use a MK4 solid pad as a replacement.

[chrishill 0]

i'm dreading changing my rockercover+gasket now... if i find my engine in that state i wont be able to afford the bits to fix it! arse!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well it's better to know for sure. When I saw that on mine (after only 93K!) I was a bit horrified but it didn't really affect anything TBH. If the pad seperates from the metal back plate completely, then you've got serious issues....and that's when you get that nasty metal-on-metal grinding noise at 1200rpm.

 

I say with a pad in that state, get it penned in as soon as and don't rag it from cold as that's when the oil pressure is at it's highest....approx 8 bar at 3000rpm. When hot oil pressure rarely goes over 5 bar.

[Geo 0]

I would be shitting myself driving that car with the tensioner looking like that. Could let go at any time and then you'll be faced with a big bill. Can you not get a lift/ take the bus to work for a week or so?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

He'll be OK if he takes it easy..... but it needs doing ASAP!

[Chris VR6nos 0]

All this talk is just that!

The parts will not fail but go on and on for a vrey long time even after the guide has cracked as shown and the pad seperates, don't worry yourselves about it, it's just parts and you'll change them when you do but no desperite rush cos nowt will go drastically wrong, chill out!

 

 

Chris

[Trig 0]

Mine is on 126k, no noises but I want to get this job done ASAP (even though I don't really have the money!) anyone know anywhere in the south west that can do this job well (and preferably cheap! - yeh right)??

[CoxyLaad 0]

I am sort of in agreement with chris here. I do believe there is a lot of scaremongering with the chains, and no one I know has had a VR engine detonate because of the timing chains.

 

:)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

LOL..... tell that to Phat. His sprockets jumped because of worn chain tensioning parts.

 

You're right though, it's all down to choice. You can choose to replace the worn parts or you can choose not to. Some of us just want our cars running at their best, no crime in that 8)

[CoxyLaad 0]

oh aye horrocks engine bit the dust, but I suspect there were other things at play too :-)

 

No harm in keeping ones car in A1 condition, I agree.

 

Also the cost of the job is very expensive, would it not be feasilble to just replace the blades as opposed to the chains and everything - as a chain that big is unlikely to even stretch let alone snap?

 

alternatively buy a 24v with less than 10,000 miles on it ;-)

[Chris VR6nos 0]

Options, options!

 

 

Chris

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Also the cost of the job is very expensive, would it not be feasilble to just replace the blades as opposed to the chains and everything - as a chain that big is unlikely to even stretch let alone snap?

 

The VR is just one big expensive lump, period! :lol:

 

The really annoying thing about the chains is if VW had made the pivot for the upper tensioner pad about an inch higher, there would be no need to drop the gearbox and all that other BS :x But obviously they want to charge heap big sums for job.....despite denying all knowledge of them wearing out....and subsequently redesiging the part, LOL!

 

Anyhoo.... people change all of chain gubbins (and the clutch) to capitalise on the gearbox being off....but yeah, you don't need to change all of it, just the pad....but.....whilst you're there and all that.

 

alternatively buy a 24v with less than 10,000 miles on it ;-)

 

Definitely, it's a far superior engine to the 12V in my opinion.... it's kind of why I bought the charger because I can carry it across to a 24V engine too :lol:

[Chris VR6nos 0]

Got to be a good move!

 

 

Chris

[Madjackal 0]

Trigger, get ya self to stealth in coventry ask anyone, its worth the drive, so long as ya chains dont go on the way up there. That would suck.

 

Mines finally going in for the works on 3rd Oct. Peace of mind, here we come. :-P

[chrisw 0]

Cheers for the replys. I was thinking that the tensioner should last a bit longer as people have been finding theirs in a worse state than mine. I agree it has almost reached paranoia on this forum but when you open it up and find cracks like that, whether its got 50k more in it or not, it doesn't inspire confidence. Maybe I shouldn't have looked until I had the time to do it!

 

Chris W

 

BTW : What is the AMV xxx sealant that is recommended for the mating surface of the sprocket cover? Any generic equivalents?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

AMV type stuff is expensive from the dealer, it's a type of non setting hylomar sealant.

 

I used silicon sealant. It's just as good, but the key to mating any surfaces together successfully with no leaking is clinical cleanliness.

[andy 0]

no one I know has had a VR engine detonate because of the timing chains.

 

My project beast had 9 bent valves, 2 knackered guides and bits of tensioner everywhere because of worn tensioner parts. £1k later and I've mended it :-)

It's the chains that never give out, not the tensioner parts.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The chains have been known to snap, but it's rare.

 

When replacing the tensioner stuff, always use a MK4 solid polymer upper pad and corresponding tensioning bolt and always crank the engine over with the crank sensor disconnected (cuts fuel and igntion) to build up oil pressure first. I've seen a VR back fire when started up with new chain parts and the lack of oil pressure in the bolt caused the chain sprockets to jump a tooth. You have been warned!

[Geo 0]

All this talk is just that!

The parts will not fail but go on and on for a vrey long time even after the guide has cracked as shown and the pad seperates, don't worry yourselves about it, it's just parts and you'll change them when you do but no desperite rush cos nowt will go drastically wrong, chill out!

 

 

Chris

 

That's bullshit mate check out the link to my vento vr6 in my sig to see what happens when people have that attitude :roll:

 

Exactly the same thing that andy describes above happened the vento at 119k on a one owner car with fsh. And a vento is unlikely to have been driven as hard as a corrado.

 

Needed new valves and guides and a complete engine stripdown to remove all the bits of tensioner pad.

 

And just looking at the pictures of the worn one at the start of this thread I reckon it wasn't much worse than that when it let go. It looks to me like the lining is ready to seperate from the rivets at the top of the pad and when that happens it's only a matter of time before the chain catches the lining and fires the whole lot down into the sump, and then it's time for a big repair bill.

 

Do it now is my advice, nothing good will come from leaving it on the long finger :wink:

[Geo 0]

And what Kevin says about cranking the engine over to build up pressure is spot on, also I find that when using silicone as the sole sealer between 2 mating surfaces that ordinary paint thinner cleans the oil and dirt off the metal really well and allows the silicone to seal properly.

 

Also, I use a sealer called dow corning instant gasket, which is kind of like a super-silicone sealer. I got it in my local motor factors it comes in a white tube with green and black writing on it. Works really well for stuff like that......

[g-dub 0]

sorry to hijact this thread, how much does having the chains done cost, as i looked at a vr tonight and it was still on the original chains @ 118k and would be the first thing i doo

[joebloggsVR69 0]

sorry to hijact this thread, how much does having the chains done cost, as i looked at a vr tonight and it was still on the original chains @ 118k and would be the first thing i doo

 

Depends where you go. The garage that did mine charged about £400 (excluding the parts, obviously). An extra £50 and they fitted my new suspension & brake disks too :lol:

[Chris VR6nos 0]

Some cars are just a bag of w@nk in all honestly but Geo, you have no place to f**king slag me down like bud cos you are speaking from no place of experience, it's all c0ck, the chains are great and never snap, it's other things that cause problems, i like my worn guides :lol: i've got 169000miles nearly and it's no bother, just did 155mph on the way back after 3pints of scrumpy/stella snakebite and the chains sounded fine in the darkness of the motorway!

Twaddle i say to you young fools!

But Mr Wire does have a good point about the oil pressure not tensioning the chains on cranking cos i've seen the chains jump a tooth on a couple of ocassions, what a quandry, anyway i'm babbling now so i'm going to bed chickens, night!

 

 

Chris