The Definitive 4wd Conversion thread

[PhatVR6 0]

I would have to admit that in the real world on UK roads 4 wheel drive would make more sense.My real point though is that grip and handling are different,just by increasing grip by driving all 4 wheels you do not automatically make the car handle better..

 

correct, it gives you traction, not lateral grip, that is down to the suspension and tyres and weight distribution. BUT, the 4wd can help with these as with the extra weight at the back the car does actually feel better balanced. and the effects of the independant rear suspension has already been discussed.

 

It may feel like that but its just hiding the fact that the chassis cannot cope with the power, especially when using a drivetrain that was never developed for the car you are putting it in and is not adjustable enough to be tailored to the car..

 

Installing 4 wheel drive can make a bad car feel good but very rarely makes a great car better..

 

not exactly so. The corrado floorpan is taken from the passat.golf G60, both of which were offered in 4wd format. The corrado shares the larger tunnel of the syncro equipped cars, and the lip on the bottom of the rear chassis leg is already cut away so it won't catch on the brake lines on the syncro alxe. also, VWMS did produce a 4wd corrado.

 

sure, you can make a 2wd as quick or even quick round a track, but when you don't have the benefits of slick tyres, perfect road surfaces, high speed cornering (making use of aerodynamics) then you will lose out to a car than can put down it's power in almost any conditions.

[Chris Eyre 0]

Great thread here folks.

 

Would not wish to go off topic, but can hopefully clarify a few things re: Maurice which I hope is useful, add a litte to the 4WD debate :) .

 

One FWD car in particular that sticks in my mind is Maurice Reeve's black MK2 Golf.

 

I was at a Castle Coombe VW/Audi day in 1999 and I blagged a few laps as a passenger in a bright yellow, tuned ABT demo Audi S4 (350hp V6 biturbo with the proper quattro torsen 4WD) and no word of a lie, Maurice Reeves lapped us in his scruffy MK2!

 

When spectating afterwards, he came haring round camp corner faster than any other car I've seen go round the Coombe.....flat out with no tyre squeal at all. He recorded the fastest lap of the day, beating all the 4x4 cars and 911s etc....and Maurice is like, 65-70 years old!!

Running slicks, race-spec suspension, lapping in 1m 18.5s.

Apart from the 1.8T lump, dog sequential 6 speed box and quaife, the suspension was a mystery, but it was brutally effective. That is where the speed and cornering grip came from, the suspension setup. And his racing knowledge and experience also count for a lot. There were rumours of adjustable wishbones, extended ARB pick up points, pillow ball top mounts etc etc but the exact details were kept secret.

No adjustable wishbones, ARBs were aftermarket items, no 'fabbed drop links or blade bars. Roller top mounts definitely fitted.

Maurice Reeves is a legend ! thats his sons mk2 i think and he still has his red mk1 they are both amazing drivers though!

I remember hearing somewhere the MK1 got written off?? Not sure though. Damn shame if it did. I loved that car!Jay[/quote:00732]

I didn't see that Mk1 I must admit.. must have been very fast..

Jay, I remember talking to Maurice and Jabba last year when I was there and I think the Mk1 had rusted through and he was looking to re-shell the car. It might have been written off but I think most likely that it hasn't been re-shelled yet! It was pretty rusty when i saw it

No, it's fine and well - I drove it to Brands a week ago. It bounced off the Combe tyre wall in 2001, and I put it in a hedge at Curborough in 2004, but all relatively superficial. The Mk1 sills were replaced last year by a guy Mike let the old Jabba premises to, but the idea of a re-shell was considered unfeasible - or as Maurice jokingly puts it, "time's not on my side!"

 

Yeah I remember that MK1 aswell! Maurice was at the helm of the MK2 at the Coombe that day, but him and his son were a formidable pair with their knowledge and experience, and yeah, they are both superb drivers.

Both Mk1 & Mk2 Golfs were in attendance in October 2000 - I was driving the Mk1 all day. A fairly memorable event was catching, outbraking and passing the Dialynx Quattro on the entrance to The Esses - in the wet..

 

 

To a large extent 4WD can be worked around. But in the heat of proper battle, when everyone has done heaps of testing, got the right set up, clearly 4WD will prevail especially in the 'right' conditions (Frank Biela, Audi A4 etc).

 

What has been seen in performance terms from the Reeves' cars, and various others over the years is usually supported by years of experience. They've also got a Toyota Starlet 1.3 GT Turbo (180 brake & auto 'box) which went to Japfest last year. It was wet, Maurice's son was driving and nothing, repeat *nothing*, went past it all day. A bloke who got trounced by an Evo could not believe his eyes. That's skill, experience and expertise... and explains why, when we're at Inters this year, Trevor Reeves will be sharing a 911 (996) GT3 at the Nurburgring 24 hour race.

 

They were the days... I loved the VW scene in the 90s, so much more laid back and inventive than it is now. Larry Edwards was another bloke with the minerals..... his FWD 16V MK2 turbo obliterated everything on the 1/4s....and again, it was a tatty old banger with choice mods in the right places.....and Jereon Dik's MK1 300hp G60....mega fast....4WD need not apply where these hardcore heros were concerned :-)

I totally agree - the 90s events, Inters, track days in their formative years :D - it was just awesome in every respect. Mark Eliot, Larry Edwards, Chris Lawes, Bill Brockank, Dialynx, Awesome, Dubsport (not exhaustive!)...

 

I remember watching the *entire* Inters concours/show & shine area just simply empty towards the railings as Big Dub and the Dialynx Quattro drew up to the line - the heights of expectation were enormous. 11.01 quarter. Mint.

 

The 6-speed gearbox in the Mk1, pictured above, was none other than Larry Edward's unit from his red/silver 16V turbo Mk2...

[biggerbigben 0]

Chris Eyre,

 

A very interesting read!

[biggerbigneil 0]

Cool!

[NormanCoal 0]

Chris - I knew you'd be able to enlighten if I pointed you in this direction. As ever I learn a little more :)

[CoxyLaad 0]

holy thread resurection batman!

 

Just read through this again, I cant believe its been that long since I started this thread, and do times move on!

 

How many 4wd conversions are currently ongoing in the world of corrados then? it seems like loads!

can we have a count?

[s.g 0]

1 here :cheers:

[Pau1 0]

Hopefully another one here next year, i've got a complete Bora 4mo to use plus a brand new Rallye boot floor and Rally rear axle set up. Just need to figure out what propshaft i can use aswell as rear drive shafts. Wanting to run the 02M and haldex rear diff with complete Bora wiring.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I cant believe its been that long since I started my 4x4 conversion and it still isn't finished!

 

I can :lol:

[blue95 0]

How many 4wd conversions are currently ongoing in the world of corrados then? it seems like loads!

can we have a count?

 

 

Add me to the count......almost done too (lost count of how many times I have said that - :lol: )

[CoxyLaad 0]

Hopefully another one here next year, i've got a complete Bora 4mo to use plus a brand new Rallye boot floor and Rally rear axle set up. Just need to figure out what propshaft i can use aswell as rear drive shafts. Wanting to run the 02M and haldex rear diff with complete Bora wiring.

 

 

Just get the bora prop shortened, thats what I did, its about 8 times lighter than the old syncro props, so well worth it.

I have done exactly what you're contemplating, I have a full haldex setup grafted into a syncro rear axle. You have to run the 4motion abs unit too for full functionality.

 

 

Mods can we have a sticky on 'the Definitive guide to 4wd' please. I think there is enough interest to warrant it judging by the amount of PMs I receive on a monthly basis (apologies to those I havent replied to yet!)

 

 

looks like we have about 5 or 6 conversions going on then!

[s.g 0]

i agree with coxy it would benefit alot of people with a sticky

[Dr_Redz 0]

Hello,

 

I am now in the position where I have the R32 in the new car, and am currently sorting out all the wiring. The idea was to convert this one to 4wd in a more custom fashion as after doing it the first time, I realised you do not really need to install the syncro boot floor at all.

 

 

Coxy ..

 

Whats the alternative to chopping the boot floor out? I have every thing apart from the boot floor ?

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[Mike Edwards 0]

Yes, interested in this too.

[CoxyLaad 0]

basically you can get teh clearance by removing the spare wheel well.

the front 2 mounting points for the 4wd rear axle are the same position as the 2wd axle, and as such are already on the car.

 

Best thing to do is to remove the 2wd rear axle, and the fuel tank, then offer up the 4wd axle, loosly bolting the front mounts in place. It will then become blatently obvious what needs to be removed.

 

Then you have to fabricate some sort of mounting for the diff bracket, braced between the chassis legs. Have a look at my build thread for some pics.

 

Also if all you are doing is removing the spare wheel well then you will have to use a custom fuel tank. I made some weird elaborate framework so I can use the original tank.

[s.g 0]

coxy if you just cut the wheel well out is there any room at all underneth for a custom tank or does it have to go in the boot. i don't fancy the smell of petrolin the car all the time.

thanks

s.g

[CoxyLaad 0]

yeah, I suppose if you chop the spare wheel out then you will have a voide undernieth there for a fuel tank. Provided you have the VR raised boot floor it should be sufficient for you to fit a decent capacity tank.

 

Can we have this as a sticky please????? christ if steering rack swaps can be stickied I think this can.....

[Dr_Redz 0]

 

Can we have this as a sticky please????? christ if steering rack swaps can be stickied I think this can.....

 

Here here.. :D

[s.g 0]

 

Can we have this as a sticky please????? christ if steering rack swaps can be stickied I think this can.....

 

Here here.. :D

 

here's my vote :thumb right:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Stickied.

 

It was a tough decision whether to sticky this thread or the "The definitive how to clean your car thread", but this one clinched it.....

[CoxyLaad 0]

cheers superkev :)

 

I feel honored :lol:

 

any 4wd questions - fire away!

[s.g 0]

coxy any chance you could put up a list of parts needed for a 4wd conversion i.e rear set up diff,axle etc etc. it would be nice if other 4wd'ers could put a list up to just to see the difference's

cheers

s.g

[CoxyLaad 0]

ok then, a quick recap of what I have gone for. I am running a hybrid 4wd system part syncro part 4motion.

 

I have 4motion 02M 6 speed box, 4motion inner CVs linked to custom length driveshafts onto VR outer CVs the rest of the front end is standard stuff.

I have then had the 4motion prop shortened to the correct length, welded in the prop suports into the tunnel.

 

At the back I have a syncro rear beam with a haldex diff grafted into it. The haldex diff is a touch wider than the syncro diff its replacing, but the cool thing is I have vr6 syncro rear wishbones which are a touch wider themselves and as such cancel out the extra width of the haldex, meaning I can ultise the standrd rear syncro shafts, mated to the 4motion inner CVs.

 

I also made some brackets up and managed to graft the VR6 280mm brake discs to the back of the car too, which is nice.

 

I am using a rallye fuel tank, and digifant lift pump.

and I think thats about it?

[s.g 0]

cheers coxy , i can start collecting parts for the rear end as i wasn't 100% sure what to use. sounds like you have a really good set up at back which utilise's not to many custom parts.

[CoxyLaad 0]

yeah, brakes and bracket for the haldex diff aside they are all off the shelf parts at the back.

 

I have run some braided lines along the back of the swinging arms because in their normal position they could in theory be jammed between the top of the swingarm and the bottom of the chassis leg :shock: