Oversteer in the wet - characteristic or damping?

[G60 Bob 0]

Coming round a very familiar 90 degree 3 lane wide bend in the soaking wet at a modest speed and when passing the apex the rear end stepped out and the car need a quick dose of opposite lock to keep it straight(ish) in the resulting drift.

 

I recently fitted Koni TA's, JOM lowering caps and H&Rs to my G60 along with new wishbones, bumpstops, topmounts and every bush (inc. rear axle bushes). From reading various posts i have the tyre pressures set harder at the front (34 front 32 rear) and the Konis set at 2 turns front and 1 turn rear.

 

It handles great in the dry, virtually no understeer and very stable on the brakes. It does go a little light at the rear when cornering hard but i thought that was the 'rear steering' effect!

 

Do i need to adjust the damping again to counteract this (whilst the rear shelves are still out) because otherwise it seems perfect or alternatively is this just a handling characteristic - what do you think?

[dr_mat 0]

How's your tyres?

[PhatVR6 0]

only time I've ever done is is with a crap cheap tyre on the back

[G60 Bob 0]

Just checked the tyres - rears are Kumho Ecsta with 60% tread and fronts Goodyear Eagle with 90% tread in standard 15" size.

[PhatVR6 0]

there you go then. good tyres on the front, cheap crap on the back.

[sciroccotune 0]

TBH it happens with my car and im running eagle f1 (the newest tread) the corrado just seems to be a bit like that.

 

also could just be that bit of road, have you only just lowered it? The new stance could be unsuited to the road etc.

 

if it was tonight there was lots of water up our way, so much so that i had a scary moment on the motorway on the way home a few moments ago.

 

I remember kev talking about the rear koni set to hard making him spin out so maybe have a play, i just have mine at 0 turns.

 

 

You could always try switching your wheels front to back and see if you like the feel better?

 

just be carefull, wet is bad

[gaz the geezer 0]

just be carefull, wet is bad

 

......... especially when you wake up in the morning after dreaming of waterfalls

[colinstubbs 0]

just be carefull, wet is bad

 

......... especially when you wake up in the morning after dreaming of waterfalls

 

good it's not just Me :oops:

[sciroccotune 0]

Quote:

just be carefull, wet is bad

 

 

......... especially when you wake up in the morning after dreaming of waterfalls

 

:lol:

 

But I do mean it cos i do think people don’t treat wet roads as they should. you really cant drive like you do in the dry, especially when you have a low, wide, car with wide flat tyres - maybe im just shocked after my aqua planin this evening :shock:

 

edit: im not targeting you with that statement G60 Bob :D

[bcstudent 0]

The only time it's happened to me was with good fronts and cheap crap rear tyres also. Had it spun I'd have piled into a police car (un-manned thankfully) on the opposite side of the road. Brown trousers.

[.A.N.T. 0]

this happened to me twice in a week. Had replaced the front tyres and not the rears so the back end had less tration. Swopped the wheels round and it didn't do it again. I now replace the rears and move the rear wheels to the front until they need replacing then swop them all around again...

 

Another thought, if youi've only just lowered it - the brake bias valve? Car is lower so it thinks it's heavier so applies more braking force to the rear wheels...?

[Ice White Socks 0]

I span my VR the second week I got it- Combination of overinflated and cheap tyres. Its VERY lucky I managed to hit a piece of sloped kerb- I reckon it would have snapped something pretty expensive if it hit a standard kerb!

 

Your right about lowering and the brake proportion valve- although I didn't brake at all coming into the corner when mine span :)

 

If thats the *only* thing thats changed since you started noticing the problem-chances are thats it?

 

Mike

[dr_mat 0]

I had a full-opposite lock moment in my VR too, turned out my rear tyres were barely legal (oo err), and my fronts were great.. Hence my question.

 

But yes, the brake bias valve is also an issue if you've lowered the car.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Are they Kumho Ecsta 712s on the rear? If so, they are treacherous in the wet!

 

I'd personally set the rear dampers to 0.5 turns (from fully soft) and 1.5 turns at the front. I've tried all manner of settings on the Konis/H&Rs and that seemed to be best for everyday driving.

 

Have you got a fat ARB at the back? That come sometimes make the back end lively in the wet.

 

Other things like rear toe and camber can effect it rear grip too.

 

And I assume you didn't step off the gas mid bend?

[G60 Bob 0]

I dont think its the brake bias valve as its very stable on the brakes and ofcourse i wasnt breaking mid corner 8) It surprised me because i was powering out of the corner and ended up in a sort of tail led 4 wheel drift.

 

The tyres are Kumho Ecsta Supra 712s on the back - just checked! That could be it then as the tracking is all set well within tollerances. Perhaps i'll try swopping them around to see if that helps but if they are that bad i'll probably understeer instead.

 

Kev - was that Koni setting for the 4cyl or 6cyl guys because i thought the wheel control wasnt as good with them set much softer than they are now although 90mph+ on a long open back road had me almost bouncing out of my seat!

[dub envy 0]

My 2 year old Yoko's on my golf started to do that. Still had loads of tread but they went really hard. ANY type of bend in the wet and they would loose grip.

 

Span it really badly at No-Rice (back in the Guildford days) going past Porsche under the bridge... ended up bouncing the car up the pavement backwards, completely jumping the grass verge, and stopping between two trees...

 

I was a lucky boy that night. Only damage was a chewed wheel and rear wheel bearing. Tyre heald and I drove home...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I dont think its the brake bias valve as its very stable on the brakes and ofcourse i wasnt breaking mid corner 8) It surprised me because i was powering out of the corner and ended up in a sort of tail led 4 wheel drift.

 

Yep, you only need to touch the brakes mid bend with a seized compensator and you know about it!

 

The tyres are Kumho Ecsta Supra 712s on the back - just checked! That could be it then as the tracking is all set well within tollerances. Perhaps i'll try swopping them around to see if that helps but if they are that bad i'll probably understeer instead.

 

yeah, I suspect that's half your problem! I had 712s on for a bit and they were useless in the wet! Hit a patch of diesel mid bend in the wet and you've got a steering wheel scrap in your hands!

 

Kev - was that Koni setting for the 4cyl or 6cyl guys because i thought the wheel control wasnt as good with them set much softer than they are now although 90mph+ on a long open back road had me almost bouncing out of my seat!

 

Yeah the 4 cyl Koni/H&R setup is a curious one. Like you, I found on a G60 it was incredibly bouncy compared to the VR setup. I don't think the dampers are different to the VR ones and the springs can't be any softer cause of the VR's nose weight, so I don't know really.

You definitely don't want much rear damping force, so try half a turn and also let the rear tyres down to 30psi. See if it helps.

[G60 Bob 0]

Cheers Kev will do - i knew one of the handling gods would come to the rescue of an adjustable set-up virgin :D

[vwgti 0]

yah I think the rear end of a rado is rather tail happy just happen to me last week in a car park where the cemnt floor was slight damp, when in with power thru a 180 lifrted off mid bend and the tail came around opposite lock and gas it at the same time came out heading straight!! Thats oncement flooring though and running T1R with 99% tread all round!!

 

Just remember to gas it whenthe tail comes around a syou will be tranfering weight to the back and be especially cautios if you r running an additional ARB at the back!! I say Very Cautious as it will be very tail happy same on the MK2 golfs as well!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

IMO, too many factors influence oversteer (on a FWD car) to label the Rado as being tail happy. Geometry, road surface, contaminants on the road, chassis setup and condition, ambient temperature, driver error etc etc....

 

Only in the dry are conditions uniform enough to make an informed decision whether the car is tail happy or not, but even then, wind speed, mid corner bumps and lumps, driver error etc can all unbalance the car mid bend!

[dr_mat 0]

I disagree. I think it's clear that the Corrado is not tail happy at all. It's just better balanced than your average Vauxhall, and basically that means that if you're stupid you can wind up facing the wrong way. But it's hard to do that, and generally things have to be pretty extreme to spin a Corrado. (That flexy rear beam keeps the back end from jumping about too much.)

In a world where all FWD cars understeer to hell the Corrado is a breath of fresh air, not "tail happy".

All IMHO, of course.. ;)

[bcstudent 0]

I have to say, I still feel that my 1990 Mk2 GTI had more sure-footed handling than my Corrado.

[CoxyLaad 0]

what about all these fancy rear steering rear bushes then? surely if they start to wear out, and I am sure there are a lot of corrados on the road now with worn ones, they will definately cause some tail happiness. I have a set of polybushes to go in the back of mine.

[Chris VR6nos 0]

I can drift mine around some corners, H8RRA was in the car once when i was on full opposite lock and on the power to keep it pulling and maintain the drift, this has happened numerous times!

 

 

 

Chris

[dr_mat 0]

And I'll bet you've not got 100% factory standard suspension/wheels/tyres ...

Thereby adding your evidence to the "some modified cars" pile but not the "general Corrado" pile.