Intercooler versus Charge cooler

[flusted 0]

What are your opinions on the above?

 

I have a friend whos amazing at welding ally so is it feasable to make a charge cooler out of the standard intercooler?

He could weld plates on either side of intercooler with pipe fittings to flow the water through the fins of standard cooler,thus keeping original pipework?

Or am i stupid :oops:

[Blue_Joe 0]

Intercooler definatly!!!!

[gradeAfailure 0]

i remember revs or max power doing a std intercooler/uprated intercooler/charge cooler test on a escort rs turbo aaaages ago - they found that the chargecooler dropped the inlet temps by far far more than the uprated intercooler... it's just whether you want the hassle of fitting a rad, reservoir and pump for the chargecooler water system...

[G60Jet 1]

what about keep the intercoolers and go water injection too!

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

there was a guy down at G-werks who had some kind of Lotus chargecooler on his Golf G60. should have asked him about it...maybe darren could tell us more...??

[W3RKD 0]

Intercooler everytime...

[Shaggy 0]

IMO chargecoolers do work better than an intercooler at lower speeds (less airflow at lower speeds) etc but at higher speeds (higher air flow) the intercooler wins pretty much all the time. the only other compromise would be one of those cosworth type coolers which is an intercooler and a chargecooler in one... some people fit these , was going to have a go myself but decided to just go for the Golf G60 FMIC which works / flows very nicely.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Intercooler, definitely.

 

I've yet to see an average charge cooler get IATs lower than 50 deg. You need a seriously good one to better that and that usually means a large coolant tank (circa 3 gallons sitting in the boot) and big rad and electric water pump.

 

CCs are best where space is an issue. It's why the Merc 55 AMG has the CC built into the intake manifold, there just isn't room for a FMIC....but CCs are better than nothing. Add water injection to that and you're getting somewhere close to an efficient FMIC.

 

A FMIC with water spray is the ultimate. You can use a couple of Spal fans on the front (or back if you want suction) of the IC to get round heatsoak issue in traffic if the OE rad fans aren't man enough.

[gradeAfailure 0]

i stand corrected! always thought that chargecoolers were better, but obviously not... you learn something new every day!

[flusted 0]

i did read that revs mag aswell! man that was some years ago! Im still in the search for a merc sprinter intercooler?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Different ways to skin a cat. Chargecoolers are definitley better than no cooling what so ever, such is the predicament I am currently in, well, I have water injection, but you need IC/CCing for consistency or the heat soak will kill the power and, more importantly, the torque.

 

Good luck finding a merc cooler for reasonable money. They were cheap from merc dealers but they've nearly doubled the price of them now apparently. Forums are to blame I think as Merc got wise to people using them on other cars!

 

H8RRA's huge Skyline intercooler is what you want. After 13 runs on the dyno, the inlet manifold temperature was less than ambient!

[H8RRA 0]

 

H8RRA's huge Skyline intercooler is what you want. After 13 runs on the dyno, the inlet manifold temperature was less than ambient!

 

8) 8) 8) 8) - bearing in mind, that was stationary in stealth and the cooling would be far more when moving - hopefully i'll get round to putting on an inlet air temperature gauge in one of the blanked holes on the schimmel. i can't imagine getting a bigger cooler on - certainly without changing the std bumper

 

[GazzaG60 0]

a bit one sided kev. the reason AW dont work as well as big FMIC is becuase they are under specced 9/10 times.

 

my mate runs a pwr chargecooler on his subaru. a charge cooler is all about the pump and rad rather than the cooler. yes it matters but not as much.

 

get a high flow pump. not one of these 6-12gph pumps a proper one. no bubbles.

 

fit a nice cooler. as an everyday unit air-water has a better efficiency rate than air air. down to waters thermal efficiency.

 

you need lots of water to make it work right. my mate used 4 gallons.

 

his temps never go over 50. the pump is only on every now and again. the big turbo offsets this slightly as they dont turn into a fireball at 1 bar but i dont think he uses the pump at all under 1 bar. we fitted a air temp sensor in the back of the inlet as he used a pace setup prior.

 

flow through a AW is also a lot better, pressure drop is less and off boost response is noteably better.

[iow_corrado_g60 0]

The intercooler route was the next thing i wanted to do! would like to see some lower temps and some extra ponies!

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

The intercooler route was the next thing i wanted to do! would like to see some lower temps and some extra ponies!

 

does that mean you are keeping her then ?

[_leon_ 0]

a bit one sided kev. the reason AW dont work as well as big FMIC is becuase they are under specced 9/10 times.

 

my mate runs a pwr chargecooler on his subaru. a charge cooler is all about the pump and rad rather than the cooler. yes it matters but not as much.

 

get a high flow pump. not one of these 6-12gph pumps a proper one. no bubbles.

 

fit a nice cooler. as an everyday unit air-water has a better efficiency rate than air air. down to waters thermal efficiency.

 

you need lots of water to make it work right. my mate used 4 gallons.

 

his temps never go over 50. the pump is only on every now and again. the big turbo offsets this slightly as they dont turn into a fireball at 1 bar but i dont think he uses the pump at all under 1 bar. we fitted a air temp sensor in the back of the inlet as he used a pace setup prior.

 

flow through a AW is also a lot better, pressure drop is less and off boost response is noteably better.

 

interested to hear the response to this....

[Lippy 0]

4 gallons of water + chargecooler setup, how much would that weigh - certainly add to the wet weight of the car.

 

Anyone compared this to a FMIC setup?

[GazzaG60 0]

is a jabsco pump. pwr 6in x 12 in cooler, tank mounted in boot.

 

yes it adds to the wgight of the car but the tank is on the large side. at the end of the day this system is specced up for 600hp. id look for a gallon min ideally 2. as long as the pump flows no bubbles and there is enough water to run a full gear without it being used again its fine. the usual downfall is not enough water for a gear.

 

the subaru is a lot better balanced than the c plus awd. you dont even know the tanks there.

 

depends on your power requirements and your blower efficiency. its not a 1 kit suits all thing. AW cost more too.

 

main adv are

 

thermal efficiency,

pipe lengths

no need to hack the front. no point having a massive FMIC if it doesn't get air.

 

i will add im going FMIC on my C though. i didn't want the large tank but did see where i could have piping lenghts not exceeding 1m excluding cooler.

[H8RRA 0]

i think the cost, greater difficulty, cost, weight etc of a chargecooler setup outweigh its advantage or would prohibit most people taking this route when the fmic is "relatively" easier, cheaper, etc....

[GazzaG60 0]

gotta agree on that. cost is always the major driver esp iv vw. my mate must have 20k in his engine and box so the extra few $$ are not as noticable. it is a nice neat setup though

[Kevin Bacon 5]

a bit one sided kev. the reason AW dont work as well as big FMIC is becuase they are under specced 9/10 times.

 

 

I don't know why you've singled me out as being one sided, pretty much everyone in this thread rates A-A over A-W. I have experience of both so thought I'd say a few words on the subject.

[JMC 0]

There was an article in Japanese Performance magazine May 05 comparing a Pace intercooler and chargecooler on the same setup (200sx). The charge cooler brough the temperature down from 95C to just 4C above ambient, while the intercooler brought it down from 98C to 6C above ambient. Both pretty good.

 

I suppose what you really need to ask is "is it worth it for the extra effort require to install it, and the need for radiator, pump, large amounts of water etc"??

[LowG 0]

A/W setups are are very efficient if setup right, most people that do it themselfs mismatch parts, find no gains and end up selling them and going A/A.

 

If you was to build a drag car I would go A/W and use lots of ice to cool it.

 

A/A is hard to beat for daily driving and reliability, the alky injection kits also work well with A/A cooler.

 

A few people have found the pwr cores to be not so efficient but they do have a good flow.

[GazzaG60 0]

no singling you out kev. just you had what seemed the most informed opinion of the posts. sorry if it felt that way.

[keithmac 0]

Well this is what I`m trying out, will post some results up when fitted. I`ve read it`s all down to the Amount of water flow and the size of the pre-rad, I`ll be running 1/2l of water in the header tank + whatever the system takes (2L tops?).

 

I do mostly town driving so it seems the better option.