Crazy Daves Bog Standard 16v :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cool, nice one 8)

 

I can't remember if it's greater than 3ms or 4ms, but on the DTA if you go over that setting, it flags up a warning about potential coil burn out, so personally I'd back it off to 3ms to be safe! 3ms works well up to 20psi, so you'll be OK.

 

Good to hear the Jetex is sturdy. Ah OK, that confirms what Vince mentioned then. It was him that said the box's internal bore is throttled down to keep the noise down. It's not a problem under a bar of boost anyway.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Met up with Dave on Saturday and saw his turbo beasty. It's awesome, really impressive job he's done.

 

The megasquirt seemed to be doing a good job too from what I could see / hear.

 

Impressive chargecooler, very impressive. I'd recommend that to anyone that wants a nice simple install that doesn't take up too much space or money!

[CrazyDave 0]

Cheers for the kind words Kev.

 

Was good to exchange ideas on which way to go next. Always good to stand back and take a look at how things look and get a second opinion.

 

Your car is something else, would love a ride out when you get the new bottom end run in (how do you keep off boost while running in a new engine with a turbo that spools so low?).

 

Still can't believe how big the tank and pump is on the Schimmel charge cooler! But I guess it is rated for 600hp! Having seen the kit up close I can understand why it costs what it does, it is 'the best'.

 

I've done some more fine tuning of the squirt, and have been gradually building up the throttle use. I still havent been above 4k (about when a normal VR starts to really perform), and still with only 8psi it feels so quick.

 

Thats the best bit for me, the performance is so lazy now.

 

The 'around town' driving is also spot on, quite happy going to the shops etc.

 

A bit more setting up and a trip to Vince for the performance mapping and it should be even better.

[Guest]

Happy Birthday Dave!

[KADVR6 0]

happy birthday Dave, we will have to have a chat at the next Worcester meet about the mega squirt :) but really looking forward to a drive :twisted:

 

karl

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cheers for the kind words Kev.

 

Was good to exchange ideas on which way to go next. Always good to stand back and take a look at how things look and get a second opinion.

 

Your car is something else, would love a ride out when you get the new bottom end run in (how do you keep off boost while running in a new engine with a turbo that spools so low?).

 

No worries, and likewise, thanks for the compliments!

 

I've racked up 500 trouble free miles already, so won't be long before I can give it the big un! I have given it the odd squirt here and there, mainly just to get a little pressure in the rings to get them used to it, but not hard boost.

 

It's difficult keeping it off boost :-) I suppose I could just take the spring out of the Wastegate but I'd probably end up burning the valve out.....so it's just a matter of self control :-)

 

We'll link up again when I go up for a tune of the map on the dyno and we can blast up and down the Southam bypass and compare notes ;-)

 

Yeah the Schimmel chargecooler is a real excercise in over engineering, but that's the way he does things. As you saw, the pump is HUUUUGE and actually very quiet too. The only downside is the space it all takes up, but you soon forget about that when driving it.

 

Glad the squirt tuning is coming along nicely. How are you finding the LM-1 readings? My LC-1 gives some odd numbers sometimes....the numbers don't correlate with the exhaust smell and plug colour. I think I'm going to have to ditch it and look at an alternative.

 

The leaky sump was caused by a sharp edge on the crank shaft ripping the seal as it was assembled! Took us a while to figure that one out!

 

I think you went just before we took the sump off? Hat's off the Vince....he stayed and did the job when he was supposed to have gone early to get a birthday present for his missus, he's a top man.

[Guest]

he stayed and did the job when he was supposed to have gone early to get a birthday present for his missus, he's a top man.

 

I'm sure his missus doesn't share that view! :lol:

[CrazyDave 0]

Glad you got sorted in the end. Vince sure is committed when it comes to putting the time in!

 

The LM-1 seems fine, but as with any O2 sensor I think you have to watch out for misfires as this show up as running lean, but will smell rich out the back.

 

Currently chewing over this fuel rail issue (which I think you may have also Kev). When the rail gets really hot the fuel will burn differently (especially on no6, the end of the rail), and I think thats causing the slight misfires after a while at idle and hence the AFR readings going silly. Mine is doing the same thing.

 

Take it out and drive it and it clears really quickly, but after idling and letting the heat soak again it's back.

 

I might try lagging my fuel rail as an interim fix to see if it makes it any better.

 

Cheers for the Birthday greets! Those beers went down a treat!

[mrbeige 0]

Do you think the fuel might be vapourising in the fuel rail, Dave?

[CrazyDave 0]

Not sure if that would actually happen due to the pressure in the rail.

 

But I do know that fuel temperature has an infulence on the performance of the engine. It makes a huge difference with diesels and the fuel systems used in engine test cells have temperature conditioned fuel feeds to give consistent results.

 

Also the standard fuel rails on modern cars have a loop, not a dead end. So the fuel can circulate and the temperature is kept even by regular exchange with the main volume in the tank. Result, nice cold fuel rail at low and high injector openings. They also get primed when you open the door and when you turn the ignition on etc etc.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Dave, have a look in my gallery and see if your plugs look like mine..... when you mentioned plug six just then, the light bulb pinged on above my head.

 

Interestingly though, mine isn't flustered by traffic heat, but then I am running a silly idle speed (1100rpm) at the moment to stop the forged pistons slowing down to much during bed in.

 

I suppose if your theory is true, I'd expect 6 & 2 to be dark where the fuel is coolest, and the remaining plugs to get progressively lighter the further down the rail you go....which is kind of what mine look like.....but that'll only happen in traffic......mine were like that after 200 miles of motorway!

 

You are onto something though. Perhaps try a BEGI 1:1 regulator. That will give you a nice loop. Straight to the rail from the pump. Out of throttle end of rail into BEGI and then from BEGI to tank. Worked a bloomin treat on "Mark 1 VR6 turbo engine".

[chazrad 0]

Dave,

Mate, It was great to catch up with you yesterday and thanks for the superb run out in your car. Absolutely brill. Mine is fast now, but its the torque in the mid range on the VRT that I can never match. I really like that Jetex system too.

 

Super impressed with how you are getting to grips with the MegaSquirt. I'm sure that when you read into it, its not rocket science but to me it looked quite technical. You seem to have it sussed though.

 

Hope the MOT went ok. Did you have to refit the cat?

[CrazyDave 0]

Well the MOT was OK, but failed on emissions! Not surprised really.

 

I pulled all the plugs tonight and guess what.... graded colours rich to lean with 6 being the worst. I was with the car all through the MOT (my baby!) and they left it sat for ages and ages at idle and it got lumpier the longer it was left.

 

They didn't notice that the cat wasn't fitted, but the trouble is a 95 car has a pretty strict emissions requirement 0.2 CO and less than 200HC. So with it missing on number 6 (I suspect) the HC went to 1400 and without a CAT the CO was 0.6 so no chance (even with me tweeking the map down while they tested it). The guys at the station gave me a fair bit of time to mess with a few settings.

 

I've had the front sections of exhaust off tonight and measured up to get the cat in. I'll order some bits tomorrow as it looks pretty straight forward.

 

I've also had a good look at the fuel rail and will order some parts to make a fuel loop rather than the dead end it has now.

 

If I still have problems I could always fit the standard injectors and Motronic just to get through the MOT and then put it all back again (doesn't take more than 30mins to change over!).

[chazrad 0]

Bad luck mate. Cost you the price of the MOT to find that out, but I'm confident you'll sort this minor problem out quickly.

[Blue_Joe 0]

Well the MOT was OK, but failed on emissions! Not surprised really.

 

I pulled all the plugs tonight and guess what.... graded colours rich to lean with 6 being the worst. I was with the car all through the MOT (my baby!) and they left it sat for ages and ages at idle and it got lumpier the longer it was left.

 

They didn't notice that the cat wasn't fitted, but the trouble is a 95 car has a pretty strict emissions requirement 0.2 CO and less than 200HC. So with it missing on number 6 (I suspect) the HC went to 1400 and without a CAT the CO was 0.6 so no chance (even with me tweeking the map down while they tested it). The guys at the station gave me a fair bit of time to mess with a few settings.

 

I've had the front sections of exhaust off tonight and measured up to get the cat in. I'll order some bits tomorrow as it looks pretty straight forward.

 

I've also had a good look at the fuel rail and will order some parts to make a fuel loop rather than the dead end it has now.

 

If I still have problems I could always fit the standard injectors and Motronic just to get through the MOT and then put it all back again (doesn't take more than 30mins to change over!).

 

Sorry to hear that fella!!!

 

But if it's any consolation - after my new engine build went for the MOT knowing it was running rich as it wasn't mapped but thought we'd give it a go. I was at 12% CO and at a WHOPPING 6700 HC lol!!!! Turns out it was simply that I had forgotten to reattach the vacuum pipe to the ECU that caused it!!!! :oops: :oops:

 

When retested it came right down to 0.1CO and 120 HC!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well the MOT was OK, but failed on emissions! Not surprised really.

 

Arse. This is why I took mine to 'a man' I know ;-)

 

I pulled all the plugs tonight and guess what.... graded colours rich to lean with 6 being the worst. I was with the car all through the MOT (my baby!) and they left it sat for ages and ages at idle and it got lumpier the longer it was left.

 

Double arse. Your LM1 should have shown a very very lean idle the longer it ran. Over the course of a 45 minute traffic jam, mine went from a nice 13.8:1 idle to 19:1 :shock: If that isn't fuel evap, I don't know what is! Obviously that was just evap on cyls 5 and 6, but it's plenty to throw the A/F off.....which is why it's dodgy for mapping.....you could be mapping to richen cyls 5 and 6, but actually making cyls 1 to 4 excessively rich aswell. Return loop defo the way forward with this.

 

I also think there could be a boost disparity because of the brake servo outlet in the manifold, but I'll let you know on that one.

 

 

If I still have problems I could always fit the standard injectors and Motronic just to get through the MOT and then put it all back again (doesn't take more than 30mins to change over!).

 

Indeed ;-) It's actually amazing just how well a VR turbo runs with the stock management!

[CrazyDave 0]

Sorted :)

 

Emissions a little higher than normal but OK. This is mainly down to my improvised cat! I cut open the standard cat and hacked up the core to make one that would fit into the 3" section of exhuast under the car. Not ideal but gets me out the poo.

 

Revised fuel rail really works well, didn't miss a beat through 4 o'clock traffic in town. Rail was still cold after lots and lots of idling. The plugs are all the same colour now.

 

I stuck the Motronic back on with the standard injectors and it ran fine (but keeping off boost!). Although the narrow band didn't work to begin with because I'd forgotten to connect it back up! In such a bloody hurry to get it sorted today (for Stanford!).

 

LM1 was showing a mixed bag of readings, I guess due to the spread of mixtures across the cylinders. But looking back at some data logging from previous runs you can see the mixture 'wobbling' at light throttle. It's rock steady now.

 

I guess that they don't have to worry about this stuff in the States? All the picture of cars on spturbo.com have dead end fuel rails?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Good stuff Dave, that's good to hear.

 

My rail mod also sorted the plug colour discrepencies. 1, 2, 5 & 6 are all the same colour (proving flow consistency through the rail) and 3 & 4 are ever so slightly darker, but I put that down to the 3 & 4 being the coolest running cylinders as they're surrounded by adjacent cooling jackets, unlike the outer cylinders......but the diff in colour is certainly nothing to worry about. I've seen stock VRs show the same too.

 

Getting a proper map for mine on Sunday and hopefully with wideband control, if we can get the DTA and LC-1's readings to match.

 

I've also decided to drop down to the Bosch reds (303cc). The 440s are too big for my application really. Running a base pressure of 4 bar + 1 bar of boost = 449hp capable, which is plenty for me. I think that's why my LC-1 was also showing wobbliness in the fuelling. I also know the reds well and trust them......I don't know the Amercian Delphis well and don't trust those, LOL!

[ziderapple 0]

Glad to hear you got it through the MOT Dave, 3" of cat is all you need then?

[KADVR6 0]

really cant wait till the worcester meet, so i can see your car Dave. to be honest, it's the only real reason for me attending :oops: sorry guys.

 

 

karl

[chazrad 0]

Glad you got the cat issue sorted Dave, for the MOT. Was it that the MOT tester wasn't prepared to be flexible at all - if you know what I mean??

[CrazyDave 0]

Some test stations have the emissions tester linked to the new DVLA computer system. So the tester can't change it. At least thats how it looked?

 

I do need to sort a proper cat out for next year, cos it was really close.

 

I fitted some S3 platinum plugs tonight and it all ran much better. I have to say it's a real handfull in the wet!!! Have to be real gentle with the throttle and try staying off boost or it just breaks traction. :)

 

I also went back a step with the MegaSquirt settings. The new code has something called EAE, it's for acceleration enrichment (adds more fuel when you press the throttle pedal). I've been having trouble with starting and driving straight away, the engine would cough and splutter when first started and trying to rev from idle. So I turned off the EAE and hey presto, it starts and drives great again.

 

Turns out that this problem has been noted and a new release of the software is available that allows EAE to work differently based on engine temperature (so it doesn't flood when running rich already due to cold start settings). I'll have to download the new firmware to my ECU and give it a go this weekend.

 

Been driving an A3 diesel all week, real glad to get back in the C tonight 8)

[Jim 2]

You thinking about something like a Milltek high flow cat or sommat mate?

[Toad 0]

Some test stations have the emissions tester linked to the new DVLA computer system. So the tester can't change it. At least thats how it looked?

 

The emmisions reading is stored with your vehicle information on VOSA's computers I believe, which is why you want a handy 1.4 astra knocking about at your first MOT, which they can shove the sniffer up the tailpipe of.

 

It's important to throw these results on at the first MOT, so if you get caught later, there isn't a previous similar high reading, this prevents the garage and yourself from being bent over and taught a lesson I believe. Or that's what a man who gets the odd MOT sorted near me said...

 

I'm very interested by the way the Megasquirt is panning out... I'm very tempted to convert mine to 2l and throw megasquirt on so that I can fit a turbo with a lot less hassle at a later stage.

 

Have fun with her!

[CrazyDave 0]

Jim, not sure at the minute, the Miltek ones are very nice. Jetex now have a range of cats available in various shapes and sizes which would be ideal for me as the my front exhaust sections are all non standard now.

 

Toad, the megasquirt is getting better and better, I guess if I spent some money on a bit of rolling road time it would happen a lot quicker. The latest MSII_Extra software is very good and getting better week by week. I still have some things to sort out but that's all part of running standalones I'm afraid. As for fun, the big grin is still firmly fixed!