The Forced Induction 16V Thread

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Interestingly enough though in some areas I have come to appreciate that less timing is more anyway..

 

Yep, spot on that man, have a cigar.

 

There is a tempation to run a lot of timing because common practices indicate it produces the best power, but the proper practice is to use timing which produces peak torque, and we all know power is a multiplication of torque v rpm :wink:

If for example your forced induction engine makes peak torque on boost with 22 deg of advance, there is absolutely no gain in running 25 deg. But in a lot of circumstances, the engine does indeed make peak torque on the edge of knock.

 

Turbos don't need much timing, the 1.8T actually has zero degrees timing at certain load sites. I find a little less timing than is regarded as the norm makes a turbo feel more responsive on boost, but you do need some extra timing at the top end when the boost falls off to keep the engine on the boil as it where.

 

Unfortunately you can't hear the fatal pinking, which usually occurs at high rpm / high load, so it's wise to be a little conservative with the top end timing.

 

The Megasquirt should be able to read a 5V signal from an EGT signal booster and inject more fuel if temperatures exceed a user defined threshold. In the case of the 1.8T, which runs 14.7 on boost!!, it injects fuel if EGTs exceed 875 deg C.

[boost monkey 0]

:clap:

 

Sometimes I think your 2p is worth about 5p in the real world :salute:

 

I would say 10p but then I'm comparing you to a Fruit Salad mix-up and we all know who will come out on top :lol:

[dirtytorque 0]

:clap:

 

Sometimes I think your 2p is worth about 5p in the real world :salute:

 

I would say 10p but then I'm comparing you to a Fruit Salad mix-up and we all know who will come out on top :lol:

 

have u been sniffing correction fluid at uni mate? :)

[g60badass 0]

i was talking with a mate from germany the other day and he was sayin the best way to go is 1.8 t seat motor and use the blower off the new new tt as it is bolt on ,no need fo manifold change or nowt mayby worth investigating mate

[Yandards 0]

Jet engines run on a figure of TBT or Turbine Blade Temperature, this is the maximum point of thrust for the engine and is monitered via various forms of heat sensor, so in effect an EGT sensor is doing the same thing although the jet engine will remove fuel and air mix to stop the temp increasing.

 

As for the less is more timing you are way better off going lower as has been said, as soon as you dip over the other side into pinking the power drops off in a big way.

 

Longer rods are more stable as are longer skirted pistons so a combination of both gives the least stress on the running gear and cylinder walls (less motion of rod through full crank rotation combined with more piston ring contact over a broader area of the bore) Only snag with this set-up is that is takes longer to spool up under accel.

 

Good to see this thread still producing some really good info.

[boost monkey 0]

i was talking with a mate from germany the other day and he was sayin the best way to go is 1.8 t seat motor and use the blower off the new new tt as it is bolt on ,no need fo manifold change or nowt mayby worth investigating mate

 

You're in the wrong thread :nono: You want to be here

[will.s 0]

hi there

 

cant make up my mind about what conversion to go ahead with, a turbo or a supercharger!

i know that i have to change the comp ratio to 8:5.1 no matter what i do but it seems that it is much more hassle and costly to convert my 1.8 16v KR into a 16vG60 than a 16vt.

does anyone know what the the different power gains are and any advise would be great.

also is it worth while keeping my 1.8 16v kr head and kr cams and changing to a 2.0l ABF bottom?

 

thanks :)

[Yandards 0]

hi there

 

cant make up my mind about what conversion to go ahead with, a turbo or a supercharger!

i know that i have to change the comp ratio to 8:5.1 no matter what i do but it seems that it is much more hassle and costly to convert my 1.8 16v KR into a 16vG60 than a 16vt.

does anyone know what the the different power gains are and any advise would be great.

also is it worth while keeping my 1.8 16v kr head and kr cams and changing to a 2.0l ABF bottom?

 

thanks :)

 

16vt is a lot easier to do with little fabrication required and a good selection of off the shelf parts, 16vG60 requires a lot more headscratching and lots of custom bits to make it work well, as such they tend to be less reliable.

 

Whatever route you run down make sure you use a 16v bottom end for engine breathing purposes.

[bennyd 0]

I'm currently swapping my G60 engine for a 2l 9a with a rotrex supercharger. The head is flowed and in using wonnser 8.5:1 piston and steel rods. I got a lot of parts from RPM in germany and the braket for the supercharger from R-Tech in Denmark.

I'm also upgrading the exhaust system with a 2.5", a golf G60 FMIC and megasquirt. My main problem is that I have to remove the brake servo as I'm putting the altenator on the back of the engine (so I can use the Golf G60 FMIC). I'm trying to source a pedal box at the moment.

It's not the cheapest option, but I've been collection the part for about 3 years now, if I added it all up I'll shoot myself :snipersmile: , lol.

I'm hoping for at least 300bhp at the wheels, but in all honesty I've no idea what power it will make as I've haven't see another one done before.

[dirtytorque 0]

/\/\/\

cool.

any pics of progress thus far? 8)

[mrbeige 0]

Yeah, ditto, I'd love to see a 16v running a rotrex...

[bennyd 0]

I was going to do the transplant myself but I had to go the Norway for work. My mechanic (VAG speciallist) is doing it at the moment (I hope). I'm home next week so I take a few pic's if he has started.

[bigred 0]

Has anybody seen this yet?, loks like a twin g60 16valve, mmmmm, mmmmm

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=49GT5BULbCs

[dirtytorque 0]

/\/\/\

 

lol

 

nightmare.

Two chargers to worry about.

[VEEDUBBED 0]

What kind of camshafts are available for our turboed

16valave mills???.

[Flexso 0]

Hello Guys,

 

Really sorry to dum down things from the last couple of pages. But its come to the time where my current 16v engine will need a rebuild. I would love to go FI. So my question is what kind of power could a rebuild standard engine cope with? With just the bare essentials changed (spacer gasket etc).

 

I will be honest im not looking for silly power gains but enough to put a VR to shame. Also does put FI on a 16v seriously shorten the life of the engine?

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[dirtytorque 0]

Hello Guys,

 

Really sorry to dum down things from the last couple of pages. But its come to the time where my current 16v engine will need a rebuild. I would love to go FI. So my question is what kind of power could a rebuild standard engine cope with? With just the bare essentials changed (spacer gasket etc).

 

I will be honest im not looking for silly power gains but enough to put a VR to shame. Also does put FI on a 16v seriously shorten the life of the engine?

 

Thanks

 

Mike

 

Many diy'er's go this route and enjoy power increases with no immediate reliability issues.Not the way to go in an ideal world but if your running moderate with the boost then you shouyld be ok to a point.

I'd say the closer to 300bhp you get the dicer it will become on stock internals with stacked gaskets.

If your abusing a stock engine you can't expect stock VW longevity from it.

Have a read on vortex.LOADS of ghetto FI builds on there where they discuss these types of things.

 

case in point.

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184068

[boost monkey 0]

what DT said!

 

it has already been covered on the first few pages of this thread too. :|

[LowG 0]

What kind of camshafts are available for our turboed

16valave mills???.

 

Ciao

 

As for camshafts there is various selection to pick from but most of them are for NA, will also depend what type of lifter you are using. Stock cams work good on turbo but once you start getting serious you need to change cams. Adjustable chain sprokets and front pulley its a good idea to optimize your powerband and stop losses.

You could achieve 500hp on stock cams but lets say with proper cams you could do more power for same amount of timing and boost.

[Yandards 0]

There is a school of thought that a little fuel air mix into the cylinders and out the other side will give performance gains due to slightly reduced cylinder temps and correct emptying of the cylinder prior to compression will ensure a more even burn of the mixture resulting in more consistant power delivery,

 

But I would not go with any cams that have any overlap between inlet and exhaust opening times, good for NA engines, but wastes boost in FI, less of a problem with turbo applications but supercharged engines really don't need to be losing boost pressure straight through and out of the exhaust.

[Flexso 0]

Thanks for the thread Dirtytorque :)

[hari 0]

Im currently supercharging my KR engine. Im using an Eaton M62 merc supercharger, S2 inlet, S2 pistons and rods with new rings, block rehoned with new bearings, Ported and polished head and Ported and polished G60 throttle body and im going to use Megasquirt management. So what kind of power would I be looking at when ive completed the build? I know that standard KR's are 136bhp

[dirtytorque 0]

Im currently supercharging my KR engine. Im using an Eaton M62 merc supercharger, S2 inlet, S2 pistons and rods with new rings, block rehoned with new bearings, Ported and polished head and Ported and polished G60 throttle body and im going to use Megasquirt management. So what kind of power would I be looking at when ive completed the build? I know that standard KR's are 136bhp

 

 

too many variables to predict.An engine is more than just the sum of its parts.

Find someone on the web with a similar setup so that you can guage from there.

[bigred 0]

Right i know this isn't really the place but has any one ever seen a polo (6n chassis) with the 1.4 16v engine (the 100hp one) converted with a g40, like all you guys do with the 1.8 16v g60's,???? cheers

[dirtytorque 0]

Right i know this isn't really the place but has any one ever seen a polo (6n chassis) with the 1.4 16v engine (the 100hp one) converted with a g40, like all you guys do with the 1.8 16v g60's,???? cheers

 

no...

 

why? :)