The Forced Induction 16V Thread

[Swompy 0]

I wish I never started reading this thread

 

Starting to think realy filthy thoughts :nuts: :grin:

[16v_Yellow_Corrado 0]

hello pps just started building my 16vt im using a kr block just wondering how much will i need to skim of my pistons to bring comp down? and shall i just machine it flat all the way across or shall i chamfer the edges? sorry for the stupid quetions lol.

[Gareth_16V 0]

What's the best way to cool a 16VT lump producing modest power (~250bhp)? Is the 16V radiator, in conjunction with a bigger/better air-to-air oil cooler man enough, or is a VR item a simple enough swap to make it the easiest way?

[VEEDUBBED 0]

Allrite then peeps,

I've done a few turbo valver mills in the past so i can offer you a few tips.

The 16v rad is ok for cooling if your not running insane boost,the most important

thing is to bin the oil warmer fitted as standard,it's no good for FI.

I used the oil cooler fitted on the Lancia delta evo-1,very fragile as it's made of Aluminium but does a good job.

The Vr6/G60 660mm OE rad. is superb,ideal for turbo motors.

Old Volvo 740 turbos donate their oil cooler sandwich plate and adequate 16row cooler aswell.

USE the metal OE headgasket fitted to the 2.0ABF long block mill,it fits straight on

the 9A/KR blocks no problem,on the 9A2.0 block just tap down 1 locating pin and enlarge the gasket's hole.

Junk the OE inlet manifold and get a short version,this also greatly improves acsess to the camshafts.

Bin the 9A cam and get either a KR inlet or modifiy the KR's 'zorst cam and fit that as it's got nearly 2mm more lift.

Watch it when milling down the OE pistons as the most you can safely remove is 2mm,add 2mm taken off the con rods by offset bushing and

you'll have around 9.0/9.2-1 CR,perfectly useable but i would'nt push more than 1 Bar absolute turbo press. as

the engine tends to detonat around the edges of the piston possibly destroying the ring lands.

Forged slugs are ideal and are much cheaper now than 10+ years ago when i started fiddling around.

If i think of anything else i'll post it up.

[Gareth_16V 0]

That's brilliant, thanks for that!

 

I'm just in the very early stages of building an ABF turbo, and that was the information I had left to find out! I'm aiming for a CR in the region of 8.5 - 9.0, to allow some decent ignition timing to be run. I think forged pistons is the way to go to ensure reliability, and like you say, they're well priced on places like eBay US at the mo.

 

many thanks again,

Gareth

[VEEDUBBED 0]

I bought a set of JE forged jobbies off a guy who is on the Vwvortex,i got an exellent deal,fully heat treated on crown

and sides and with custom CR specified by me,his name is Rodney Huss.

Apart from the pistons also think carefully about engine manegment,here there's no corner cutting allowed.

I fitted Weber/Pectel managment taken off a 4x4 Saff. Cossy,the 8 inj. version and it goes fine but will obviously have to re-map sooner or later as the engine has a small flatspot right after idle.

I would also get a stronger gearset and poss. uprated clutch.

As you can see,it's gonna cost...

[dirtytorque 0]

With the price of forged jobbies from the US you may as well build as strong an engine as you can afford.

The VR rad is a good upgrade as the VRT boys se their standard rad with no probs.

You will just have to re-route your water pipes if you are starting from a valver.

[16v_Yellow_Corrado 0]

Allrite then peeps,

I've done a few turbo valver mills in the past so i can offer you a few tips.

The 16v rad is ok for cooling if your not running insane boost,the most important

thing is to bin the oil warmer fitted as standard,it's no good for FI.

I used the oil cooler fitted on the Lancia delta evo-1,very fragile as it's made of Aluminium but does a good job.

The Vr6/G60 660mm OE rad. is superb,ideal for turbo motors.

Old Volvo 740 turbos donate their oil cooler sandwich plate and adequate 16row cooler aswell.

USE the metal OE headgasket fitted to the 2.0ABF long block mill,it fits straight on

the 9A/KR blocks no problem,on the 9A2.0 block just tap down 1 locating pin and enlarge the gasket's hole.

Junk the OE inlet manifold and get a short version,this also greatly improves acsess to the camshafts.

Bin the 9A cam and get either a KR inlet or modifiy the KR's 'zorst cam and fit that as it's got nearly 2mm more lift.

Watch it when milling down the OE pistons as the most you can safely remove is 2mm,add 2mm taken off the con rods by offset bushing and

you'll have around 9.0/9.2-1 CR,perfectly useable but i would'nt push more than 1 Bar absolute turbo press. as

the engine tends to detonat around the edges of the piston possibly destroying the ring lands.

Forged slugs are ideal and are much cheaper now than 10+ years ago when i started fiddling around.

If i think of anything else i'll post it up.

 

 

hello mate thanks for the info. i have shaved 2mm of my pistons do you think that will lower my CR enough? or will have to of set my rod bushes as well?... thanks in advance

[Gareth_16V 0]

Right at the start of the thread someone mentioned using a VR6 clutch in the 16VT. How is this done? Does the standard VR clutch fit on the 16V 02A input shaft, or is a box swap necessary?

[Toad 0]

I believe the VR clutch and pressure plate bolt straight onto the 16v flywheel, and the 02A input shafts are the same size.

[Yandards 0]

I believe the VR clutch and pressure plate bolt straight onto the 16v flywheel, and the 02A input shafts are the same size.

 

That would be correct, you only need a new flywheel and clutch if you are using a mk 2 Golf sourced valver engine.

[s1m0n 0]

Watch it when milling down the OE pistons as the most you can safely remove is 2mm,add 2mm taken off the con rods by offset bushing and you'll have around 9.0/9.2-1 CR

 

Your talking Cr4p!

 

Assuming a KR and an MLS compressed gasket thickness of 1.6mm and a nominal static comp of 10.16:1 then machining 1.25mm off the piston will increase chamber volume by 6.44cc and decrease comp to 9.09:1

 

If your working with a 9A with the same 1.6mm MLS and nominal static comp in the region of 10.94:1 milling 2mm off the piston will increase chamber volume buy 10.69cc and decrease comp to 9.19:1 (though you'd be better taking 1mm from the piston and 1mm from the rod bushing... Oh yea, like TurboTechnics/Stealth did it then!)

 

Alternatively simply double up the MLS (on a 9A or ABF) to achieve a static comp in the 9.4:1 range giving good performance/economy/drivability with moderate boost and a fast responding turbo.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[Gareth_16V 0]

OK, I have a fuel injector question.

 

I'm planning on using the cylinder head flange cut off an ABF manifold, and a 1.8T fuel rail (could be AGU?). Has anyone got any recommendations over what injectors to use in this setup, with a target of 280-300bhp? At the moment I've got the standard (3.5 Bar) fuel pressure reg, does anyone swap this for a 5Bar equivalent?

[bigred 0]

Hi is there a devinitive list of bits and pieces you need and what to do, to do this conversion, ie use piston from 20v?, thicker gasket?, which turbo is best, exhaust manifold, ecu etc, etc, just wondering, cheers

 

I found this link is the advice any good, http://www.daham.org/16vt/technical/vw16vt/

[VEEDUBBED 0]

Here's a few photos of past and present mills built by me,if your contemplating a simuler project maybe they could help-enjoy! :D

[dirtytorque 0]

Blimey. :) does the 16vT go as good as it looks?

[VEEDUBBED 0]

Very well indeed,but with the Vr6 gearset and large t4 the power's all up to were the car virtually takes off..

At least i haven't had any problems with gearboxes..yet

[dirtytorque 0]

Hi is there a devinitive list of bits and pieces you need and what to do, to do this conversion, ie use piston from 20v?, thicker gasket?, which turbo is best, exhaust manifold, ecu etc, etc, just wondering, cheers

 

I found this link is the advice any good, http://www.daham.org/16vt/technical/vw16vt/

No definitive list.People do it in different ways,use different size turbo's and different spec engines depending on budget and target power levels.

[dirtytorque 0]

OK, I have a fuel injector question.

 

I'm planning on using the cylinder head flange cut off an ABF manifold, and a 1.8T fuel rail (could be AGU?). Has anyone got any recommendations over what injectors to use in this setup, with a target of 280-300bhp? At the moment I've got the standard (3.5 Bar) fuel pressure reg, does anyone swap this for a 5Bar equivalent?

 

 

I use 440cc lucas injectors.Some people think they are too large for our engines saying that it is differcult to get a good idle etc.This has not been the case for me at all.

However maybe you'd like to consider something in between the 315cc red tops and 440cc's.

I'll see if I can dig out a list.

[LowG 0]

lol 440 cc is not considered to be a big injector, to make more power you will need more fuel period so the bigger injector is a must.

 

New generation of injectors nowdays is more advanced than the older style given better spray patterns and control. Of course in order to get good idle with a new set of injectors your tune must be changed. I have seen stable idle with injectors up to 1000cc on 16v engines vw or others, dont be scared of bigger injectors for your engine, as long as you can feed more air into and adjust your map :).

[Str33t_6ix 0]

hi guy and girls im new to all this ive woundering if i can get sum of ppl wisdom on here im in the middle of doing a 16v turbo on my corrado and was woundering if i could use 440cc injectors from my subaru wrx on a kr head any info would be great

[corraptor_evo 0]

Hello! Great thread, super informations!

Sorry, maybe is the wrong place for posting, but I have a short (and surely a silly) question:

What is the best combination of parts for obtaining the optimum (higher) performances by mixing the blocks, cilinder heads, crankshafts, pistons and conecting rods for a turbo setup, using the following engines: PG, KR, ADY, 9A, 2E (the 4-cyl engines mounted on Corrado).

If it is possible (and if someone will answer me) please be so kind to tell me the BHPs (tq) outputs for some variants.

Thanks a lot and please be gentle and don't treat me like a damn dumb :gag: !

[CazzaVR 0]

:tumbleweed:

[boost monkey 0]

I know, right? I heard that robot looking Mod hid this away so he could enjoy it all by himself whilst eating some tinned kippers.

[corraptor_evo 0]

This topic is really dead and berried?

If not, can anyone tell me if I can use (successfully) a PG block, a KR/PL head, Audi S2 (3B) conrods and pistons? I saw:

- PG rods has center to center length 136mm, compression height 39,2mm, wrist pin 22mm, big end diameter 50,6mm, stroke 86,4mm, dome +1,95mm, depth -8,6mm. That's mean a a length of rod+piston of 177,15mm.

 

- S2 rods has center to center length 144mm, compression height 32,5mm, wrist pin 20mm, big end diameter 50,6mm, stroke 80,4mm, dome +0,7mm, depth -1,2mm. That's mean a a length of rod+piston of 177,25mm.

 

So that mean both combination have the same (almost) length. From where comes the difference (lowering) of the compression ratio from 8:1 to almost 6:1?

 

---------- Post added at 4:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 4:40 AM ----------

 

This topic is really dead and berried?

If not, can anyone tell me if I can use (successfully) a PG block, a KR/PL head, Audi S2 (3B) conrods and pistons? I saw:

- PG rods has center to center length 136mm, compression height 39,2mm, wrist pin 22mm, big end diameter 50,6mm, stroke 86,4mm, dome +1,95mm, depth -8,6mm. That's mean a a length of rod+piston of 177,15mm.

 

- S2 rods has center to center length 144mm, compression height 32,5mm, wrist pin 20mm, big end diameter 50,6mm, stroke 80,4mm, dome +0,7mm, depth -1,2mm. That's mean a a length of rod+piston of 177,25mm.

 

So that mean both combination have the same (almost) length. From where comes the difference (lowering) of the compression ratio from 8:1 to almost 6:1?