The Forced Induction 16V Thread

[mrbeige 0]

my corrado got written off a few weeks ago.

 

Gutted mate, didn't know that! :(

 

9a pistons are good for 350-400. 350 easy. rods too. its all in a good tune to be honest to keep even built blocks alive

 

So if you were aiming for 300, then the 9a block would be fine using ARP head and rod bolts and steel spacer gasket (with abf gasket ends) would be ok?

[GazzaG60 0]

i must say it felt lioke the rug got pulled from uner my feet, hence the sig line.

 

for 300 id use a 9a with stacked gaskets and arp UNDERCUT head studs. rods should be ok as they are. i used some ford 289 bolts in my standard rods cos i planned to rev to 7500. then i decided its not worth the risk for 200 quid so i bought the scats.

 

for gaskets id use 2 abf with maybe the inner level of a 3rd abf gasket.

 

depends whether your happy to chance things or not. i wanted to d oone build and tune it then just be able to twist the bost nob knowing well that id mapped it for 2 bar boost already.

 

for reference on my mates who is gonig for 300 to start we are gonna use bits of his with my parts too.

 

ABF

ABF cams

2-3 gaskets

arp studs

boostfactory snake

t3 based turbo may lend the sc61 to him.

3" system

megasquirt

home made inlet. big plenum, velocity stacks

vr throttle body

front mount

02m box

dutchdub mount

transporter inner cvs or 02m with modded shafts

550cc injectors

1.8t fuel rail

spec stage 3+ alloy flywheel and 6 puck clutch

 

gonna run 1 bar boost on the stacked gaskets and expect around 350hp.

[blue95 0]

Hey dude,

 

What about the metal gaskets advertised on german ebay? sandwiched between two gaskets??? The 2.0 has a higher comp ration compared to the 1.8? think these thicker metal spacers cater for that?

 

Just wondered if anyone had used them:

 

http://cgi.ebay.de/VW-G60-16V-2l-Verdic ... dZViewItem

 

40 euros?

[GazzaG60 0]

never used one and probly wouldn't as the stacked gasket approach is tried and tested, gaskets are easy to get hold of etc.

[Kani 0]

I read al 9 pages and i am facinate.

But i have one question i think nobody mention that.

I want on 1.8 block from g60 put 16v head.Is that possible?And what changes i need to do it.

And is the block on 1.8 kr same as g60 block?i want to put pistons and rods from s2 but i am not sure is that possible.

[mrbeige 0]

I read al 9 pages and i am facinate.

But i have one question i think nobody mention that.

I want on 1.8 block from g60 put 16v head.Is that possible?And what changes i need to do it.

And is the block on 1.8 kr same as g60 block?i want to put pistons and rods from s2 but i am not sure is that possible.

 

S2 pistons and rods will work with the KR, and you wouldn't need them with a PG as the compression is already 8.5:1 (IIRC).

 

NOt sure about the 16v head onto a PG block? Yandards has built a G60 16v, but ~I'm not sure if he used a KR block or a PG block.

[GazzaG60 0]

PG and 9a head will give around 6.5:1 compression. remember with a valve the combustion chamber is in the head and not the piston so add a piston chamber to a head chamber = very low compression

[Dec 1]

S2 pistons and rods will work with the KR

 

I thought S2 pistons would only fit the 2.0L blocks and not the 1.8's? The rods will fit though (got them in mine)

[GazzaG60 0]

S2 rods are really no better than a kr rod. basically the same thing.

s2 pistons good for a fair bit of power on a s2 with proper rods so same must apply to 16v.

 

personnal id stop messing with 2nd hand rods and pistons where you really need new rings and a hone to seat properly minimum. the extra is only a small amout to forged slugs and scats

[mrbeige 0]

So, what OEM turbos would be suitable for a 16v turbo. I've been told Cossie T3 turbos are a good choice. So what else could be used?

[saysomestuff 0]

I'm by no means an expert mate, but the KKK K24 (i think out of an audi) and KKK K26 from porsche 944 have been used a fair bit on a random forum I found - the name escapes me. I think the difference was that the K26 showed a bit of lag on the 1.8 but not so on the 2.0 due to the extra capacity.

 

Loads of both on the bay and I think both are oil and water cooled, so live a bit longer.

[mrbeige 0]

I'm by no means an expert mate, but the KKK K24 (i think out of an audi) and KKK K26 from porsche 944 have been used a fair bit on a random forum I found - the name escapes me. I think the difference was that the K26 showed a bit of lag on the 1.8 but not so on the 2.0 due to the extra capacity.

 

Loads of both on the bay and I think both are oil and water cooled, so live a bit longer.

 

any idea on how easy they are to refurb??

[peanut 0]

The k24 was used on the s2 with an external wastegate and readily available 2nd hand for about £100+. Good turbo but only good for just over 280bhp

gav

[mrbeige 0]

So how would the possible power output of a Cossie T3 turbo compare to that?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Depends on the trim and A/Rs etc mate.

 

IIRC, Ford tried a variety of different T3s on the RS Turbo and Cosworths.

 

There's plenty of T3 variants.... this is a small selection of the T3 'family' :lol:

 

T3/60-1 w/ .82 a/r

T3/60-1 w/ .63 a/r

T3/60-1 w/ .48 a/r

T3/TO4R

T3/GT40 "BLOWZILLA"

T3/TO4E 60 trim w/.82 a/r

T3/TO4E 60 trim w/ .63 a/r

T3/TO4E 57 trim w/ .63 a/r

T3/TO4E 50 trim w/ .63 a/r

Garrett T3/TO4E 57 trim w/ .48 a/r

Garrett T3/TO4E 50 trim w/ .48

Garrett T3 super60

[vwdeviant 0]

BLOWZILLA

LMAO....

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It's the American size obsession thing again :lol:

 

They seem to be tacking 'zilla' onto the ends of loads of words these days. A very nice, huge holiday villa in Spain to them would be a "Sick villazilla". Crazy nutters :lol:

[vwdeviant 0]

Time to re-name the Rado to "RADOZILLA" :rofl:

 

 

Yeeehaw!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

and do you support.....wait for it......Aston Zilla? :lol:

[LowG 0]

Guys if you cant pay the price for a ballbearing turbo then a journal bearing will be just fine, the price difference is considerable and you can have a turbo you want by matching its flow to the engine you want to build. Why waste your time with second hand turbos that have done 100k already. Same goes with modified S2 manifolds....

If you want to build somethign properly and if are serious about what you doing you have to do it right first time end of story.\

I never saw the point of turbocharging a car if you only want 40-50hp more out of it.

 

Oh and whats going on with the layout of this forum looks bit naked?

[mrbeige 0]

Guys if you cant pay the price for a ballbearing turbo then a journal bearing will be just fine, the price difference is considerable and you can have a turbo you want by matching its flow to the engine you want to build. Why waste your time with second hand turbos that have done 100k already. Same goes with modified S2 manifolds....

If you want to build somethign properly and if are serious about what you doing you have to do it right first time end of story.\

I never saw the point of turbocharging a car if you only want 40-50hp more out of it.

 

The thing is dude, not everyone has a huge amonut of expendable cash, and I think you don't necessarily have to spend a schitt load of money to produce a decent result. I'm not saying that using secondhand parts is the right way to do it, it's just I think using OEM parts uses a bit more of your initiative and engineering skills. I can't afford to go out and spend £400 on a new trubo , when I can get the same result from spending £50 on a Cossie trubo off ebay and refurbing it. Its just a differnet approach. I'm also not looking to gain just 50bhp, that'd be a complete waste of time. I think 250-300 bhp is realistic, and as a start would be quite a good result. I'm new to all this stuff, so wouldn't want to spend god knows how much on low comp pistons, blue-printing, ballbearing turbos etc etc, for me to make a mistake and blow the engine up. Its a learning curve which is pretty steep as it is, so firing a load of money at something your a novice at doesn't make sense to me. I want to learn as much as possible, and mistakes are always made in the process and if they cost as little as possible then great!

 

[/2p's worth] :lol:

[vwdeviant 0]

and do you support.....wait for it......Aston Zilla? :lol:

 

 

Smaller version called "Turbo-zooki"? (for those who remember the cartoon!)

[LowG 0]

 

The thing is dude, not everyone has a huge amonut of expendable cash, and I think you don't necessarily have to spend a schitt load of money to produce a decent result. I'm not saying that using secondhand parts is the right way to do it, it's just I think using OEM parts uses a bit more of your initiative and engineering skills. I can't afford to go out and spend £400 on a new trubo , when I can get the same result from spending £50 on a Cossie trubo off ebay and refurbing it. Its just a differnet approach. I'm also not looking to gain just 50bhp, that'd be a complete waste of time. I think 250-300 bhp is realistic, and as a start would be quite a good result. I'm new to all this stuff, so wouldn't want to spend god knows how much on low comp pistons, blue-printing, ballbearing turbos etc etc, for me to make a mistake and blow the engine up. Its a learning curve which is pretty steep as it is, so firing a load of money at something your a novice at doesn't make sense to me. I want to learn as much as possible, and mistakes are always made in the process and if they cost as little as possible then great!

 

[/2p's worth] :lol:

 

 

I understand you are on a budget and what you are trying to achieve can/will work but the overall cost i bet would be in similar figures with a lower potential.

 

For instance you will pay 50-150 for a second hand cossie turbo then refurb it so thats another 100-300 depending who/what does it and the choice of turbo might be somewhat limited. Right there you are talking just a bit short of a new turbo which you can chose the size and trim for your specific application.

 

I agree on the block you could use a steel/copper plate to reduce c ratio and that will be reliable for 300hp.

 

Its true you make mistakes and you learn, but some things you gotta do right. I been there done that and I wouldnt do it again if I was in the same position. You dont have to go crazy to get a decent setup with good potential.

 

Like the saying goes you gotta pay to play :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Agreed.

 

During my VR6 T project I tried some cheapy parts thinking "they'd do the job" but in fact failed, so they were a false economy in the long run.

 

Even simple things like a bit of Halfords fuel line, which I thought would be OK, but it just ballooned up like a puffa fish, and that was their "Fuel injection" hose aswell :?

 

Then there were two turbo jackets that caught fire, and they weren't cheap either!!!

 

Be under no illusion, turbo projects are never cheap and they're never straight forward.

 

The things I'm glad I didn't skimp on though, are the turbo (GT turbos are sublime) and the intercooler system. Both are worth every penny :-)

[mrbeige 0]

My intentions aren't to use cheap parts, but to use secondhand OEM parts where possible.

 

For the turbo, I'm looking for one that I can refurb myself, with a total cost of £150-200.

For the block, I'm using a 2e with 16v head. This would give the same results to offset bushing the pistons, again the less costly option.

For the management, I'm using Megasquirt, again the DIY option.

etc etc etc.

 

The long term goal will to build a proper low comp 16v block using a 9a as a basis, but the costs involved at the moment are out of my reach. The reason for this course of action, is that currently my engine has seen better days and I don't really want to rebuild it as is, so would be removing it fitting th 2e based turbo engine. The 9a that I take out can then be rebuilt with low comp pistons, uprated rods, crank etc etc as and when funds allow.