The Forced Induction 16V Thread

[Yandards 0]

I have a question regarding bearings. When I rebuild the 2e bottom end, is there any advantage to replace the standard crank bearings with diesel engine crank bearings or are they exactly the same?

 

The diesel ones are suppost to be uprated items, smae price AFAIK so you might as well fit them.

 

Twiss

Merc intercooler is a big old item so you may want to look at something a bit easier to fit, short runner intake is available for under 400 euros from RPM Tuning in Germany, as already mentioned K-Jet pump is good, around 10 bar at pump instead of the lame 4 bar out of a G60 digi pump.

[dirtytorque 0]

Hello

 

I have a g6016v query.

Please no posts questioning my choice of engine conversion.

I have made up my mind.

 

I will be starting from a g60 base so I am a bit new in the ways of the 16 valve engine.

I will be using a audi 80 2 litre short block(bubble block).Its actually a 3a(8 v) rather than a 6a (16v) version so I guess I have made life differcult for myself.

The Low compression pistons are in hand,I think :) .

Anyway..

at the momment I am just concentrating on the basics in regards to the block.

Now apprently you need a 16v dizzy,oil pump,and auxillary gear/shaft .

I will have a plate to block off the distributor in the block as I have a KR head and thus will run the distributor from that.

 

Is a oil pump,aux gears/shafts etc from a 2 litre 16 valve the same as a oil pump from and 1.8 16 valve?

It will help for when I am sourcing these items.

Thanks in advance.

[mrbeige 0]

Is a oil pump,aux gears/shafts etc from a 2 litre 16 valve the same as a oil pump from and 1.8 16 valve?

 

Just checked ETKA to confirm my thoughts and no they aren't the same they have veyr different part numbers and I believe the difference is the drive for the oil pump is different, i.e. differnet type of cogs design.

 

The toothed belt pulley is the same though.

[mrbeige 0]

Quick question regarding oil cooling again, would it be wise to loose the coolant-water cooling and just have a separate oil cooler running from a mocal sandwich plate like this one?....

[Yandards 0]

Quick question regarding oil cooling again, would it be wise to loose the coolant-water cooling and just have a separate oil cooler running from a mocal sandwich plate like this one?....

 

Yes, although the system is slightly less thermally stable in heavy traffic unless you mount the oil cooler so it benefits from air flow from the activation of the rad fan.

 

Ditytorque

 

VW used the 16v block as a base when the built the 16v G60.

 

The reason I have to come to believe is that the 16v has vastly improved engine breathing over the G60 block, so as long as the block you are going to use has the big block breather on it then it should be more suitable. For more info have a read through this thread as there are links for lots of bits and sites for 16vG60s.

[mrbeige 0]

I have two questions:

 

1) Does the 2e block have oil squirters onto the bottom of the pistons? How do I recognise them if I take the pistons out?

 

2) What gearbox would best suit the 16v turbo characteristics? Standard 9a any good? Or would it need to be stronger? G60/VR boxes? Or would a 6 speed out of a mk4 turbo be better suited?

[dirtytorque 0]

I have two questions:

 

1) Does the 2e block have oil squirters onto the bottom of the pistons? How do I recognise them if I take the pistons out?

 

2) What gearbox would best suit the 16v turbo characteristics? Standard 9a any good? Or would it need to be stronger? G60/VR boxes? Or would a 6 speed out of a mk4 turbo be better suited?

 

re question 1,

 

etka has 053 103 157 A oil spray jets listed agains 2e,abf,aep and ady engine codes.

 

Game on mate.

[mrbeige 0]

I have two questions:

 

1) Does the 2e block have oil squirters onto the bottom of the pistons? How do I recognise them if I take the pistons out?

 

2) What gearbox would best suit the 16v turbo characteristics? Standard 9a any good? Or would it need to be stronger? G60/VR boxes? Or would a 6 speed out of a mk4 turbo be better suited?

 

re question 1,

 

etka has 053 103 157 A oil spray jets listed agains 2e,abf,aep and ady engine codes.

 

Game on mate.

 

How lucky is that! More by luck than design me thinks! :wink:

 

Need to get this done so I can take you and Toad out in it next ED38 and make you fill your pants like you did in junkies G

[davidwort 0]

I have two questions:

 

1) Does the 2e block have oil squirters onto the bottom of the pistons? How do I recognise them if I take the pistons out?

 

2) What gearbox would best suit the 16v turbo characteristics? Standard 9a any good? Or would it need to be stronger? G60/VR boxes? Or would a 6 speed out of a mk4 turbo be better suited?

 

The oil squirters are in the bottom of the block spraying up under the pistons to cool them, pretty obvious little chaps peering up into the bores when you look into the bottom of a block.

 

Any 02A gearbox would take the torque, given the right clutch, the problem would be wheel spin from the low ratio 16v box, a 2L is longer legged than an 1.8 16v, the ABF MK3 golf 16v is longer legged still, G60 box has a short 1st but really geared for a lower revving engine. A lot of the ratios are in the Wiki and the spreadsheet will do calculations and graphs for you given the right numbers, ETKA also has the gear ratios for each cog if you want to check out particular gearbox codes.

 

wiki - drivetrain

[mrbeige 0]

Cheers David, looks like I'll stick with the standard 2.0l one I have for now, and invest in a decent clutch.

 

Question 3:

 

Driveshafts....Are the 2.0l 16v ones up to the job? Are the G60 ones different/better?

[dirtytorque 0]

again 9a and pg shafts apear to be the same as per etka. 8)

[mrbeige 0]

again 9a and pg shafts apear to be the same as per etka. 8)

 

Excellent...even more good news.... :D

[dirtytorque 0]

r u uising a kr head?

will the valves clear the 2e pistons?

16v heads usually have angled valves and thus 16v pistons usually have valve reliefs cut into them to accommodate.

I am looking into the same thing for my g6016v using an 8v block.

[mrbeige 0]

r u uising a kr head?

will the valves clear the 2e pistons?

16v heads usually have angled valves and thus 16v pistons usually have valve reliefs cut into them to accommodate.

I am looking into the same thing for my g6016v using an 8v block.

 

Well, I'm using a 9a head (pretty much the same apart from the casting seems a little different in the port area) and the inlet valves are indeed angled. I did ask this question in my Members Gallery thread. There are no reliefs cut out of the 2e pistons, so was unsure if I was going to end up with an 'interferance' engine? The 2e pistons are dished, but the crossection looks like this

[dirtytorque 0]

i'm going to put plasticine on the pistons and then turn the engine over to see if they hit.

3a pistons are also dished but its the outer bit that i'm worried about. :| .

If it touches at all I will look into either getting valve recesses cut into the pistons or else finding more suitable piston.I guess even if by some miracle the vales are not bent on impact,surely its goin to accelerate wear on the head components!?!!!

 

Its never simple.

[mrbeige 0]

i'm going to put plasticine on the pistons and then turn the engine over to see if they hit.

3a pistons are also dished but its the outer bit that i'm worried about. :| .

If it touches at all I will look into either getting valve recesses cut into the pistons or else finding more suitable piston.I guess even if by some miracle the vales are not bent on impact,surely its goin to accelerate wear on the head components!?!!!

 

Its never simple.

 

Indeed it isn't. The problem I've got is I'm only going on what the American's do with the ABA (IIRC) block that apparently is the same as the 2e. They just drop the 16v head straight on, so it begs the question of wether the ABA and 2e are indeed the same, and if so how do they over come the valve/piston issue?

[dirtytorque 0]

i'm going to put plasticine on the pistons and then turn the engine over to see if they hit.

3a pistons are also dished but its the outer bit that i'm worried about. :| .

If it touches at all I will look into either getting valve recesses cut into the pistons or else finding more suitable piston.I guess even if by some miracle the vales are not bent on impact,surely its goin to accelerate wear on the head components!?!!!

 

Its never simple.

 

Indeed it isn't. The problem I've got is I'm only going on what the American's do with the ABA (IIRC) block that apparently is the same as the 2e. They just drop the 16v head straight on, so it begs the question of wether the ABA and 2e are indeed the same, and if so how do they over come the valve/piston issue?

 

It could be that there isn't an issue but from what I can remember from looking at kr pistons the valve reliefs are towrds the edge of the piston.I think most vw 16v pistons are similar in that respect,I may be wrong though.

 

Its something I thing you need to consider is all.Not wishing to put a fly in your ointment :wink:

I'll let you know how I get on with mine.

:)

[mrbeige 0]

I'll let you know how I get on with mine.

 

What are your actual plans? 3a with?

[dirtytorque 0]

hi

16vg60.

These are the bits I have so far..

 

3a block,using the 3a crank and pistons(modified).

abf intermediate pulley.

abf oil pump,gear.

abf crank pulley.

kr head(Maybe flowed money permitting),

kr exhaust manifold.

sciroccco inlet manifold.

 

I measured the audi 3a head and it had a volume of 32 cc.

The kr head had a volume of 45 cc.

With the extra capacity in the head,compression should be about 8.5.Maybe a bit less with the valve reliefs cut out. :?

 

So Similar setup to your turbo 16v I guess just retaining the supercharger for now.

I would like to have it finished for next summer,but we will see...

:)

[mrbeige 0]

So Similar setup to your turbo 16v I guess just retaining the supercharger for now.

I would like to have it finished for next summer,but we will see...

:)

 

 

Indeed. Maybe go for hte same target as me and make it ready for ED38 next year??

[dirtytorque 0]

Exactly.

 

:)

[Rod 1 0]

in the next couple of months im having my engine re-built and i've decided this would be the perfect basis engine to tune. i'm looking at having it super charged and i was just wondering what would be involved and what would be required to do the conversion. i have a 1.8 16v motor. any suggestions would be very appreciated. :)

[mrbeige 0]

in the next couple of months im having my engine re-built and i've decided this would be the perfect basis engine to tune. i'm looking at having it super charged and i was just wondering what would be involved and what would be required to do the conversion. i have a 1.8 16v motor. any suggestions would be very appreciated. :)

 

First off you will need to lower the compression. This can be achieved in a number of ways, depending on budget. You can either; use stacked head gaskets or a spacer, S2 pistons and rods, or forged low compression pistons (e.g. JE/Wossner/Mahle).

Then you'll need an inlet manifold. Some people use the scirocco 16v manifold with the throttle body on the right rather than the left, others use a modified S2 inlet manifold with the 5th runner cut off. Depending on charger, you may need to also modify the left-hand lower edge of it to get a G60 charger to fit. Or, you could use an RPM(IIRC) inlet manifold designed for the job (I'm pretty sure Yandards on here is using one of these).

You'll also need some sort of engine management. Some use the G60 digifant management which is very much up to the job. Other options would be cutom management such as DTA/Emerald or budget option - Megasquirt (DIY)

 

That's kinda the main things you should be thinking about, but there is soooo much more. A good point of reference would be the rest of this thread, and also Yan's and VEEDUBBED's members galleries.

 

I'm sure some of the other guys will be along shortly with more info.....

[mrbeige 0]

Chatting to nate of mine last night and he pointed out that as the 2E was 15mm taller than the 9A block, that the 9A cambelt will no longer be of any use. My question is; is the ABF block 15mm taller than the 9A and if so can I use the ABF cambelt? I'm assuming yes??

[dirtytorque 0]

the ABF is also a "tall block",so I would say yes.