Toyo R888's - an owner's view

[corozin 0]

I thought it might be of interest to write about Toyo R888's from an owner's perspective. Many of you will have seen my "rat car" Nothelle at shows in the past 12 months that I've owned it, and one of the more common questions I get from people is "what are those tyres like?".

 

Overview :

The R888 is Toyo's entry into the trackday/xtreme sports car market. Originally introduced in 2000, the R888 has firmly established itself as a favourite among both trackday drivers looking to extract more consistent performance with grip levels well above that available from normal road tyres. The rationale behind the tyre is to have something which delivers exceptional performance on road or track, but which at the same time is road legal, allowing the owner to drive the car to the track without having to lug a spare set of wheels along.

 

In recent times, the R888 has become a common fitment on sports cars made by Lotus (Exige 240R), Caterham, Westfield, Arial and Brooke to name but a few. In those markets the limitations of the tyre as a general use item are outweighed by the kinds of useage those cars get, which tends towards track use and weekends/summer use only.

 

The R888 is available in a wide variety of fittings, including the common ones used by Corrado owners. There's a lot of debate as to ultimately whether the R888 is as good as it's main rival, the Yokohama A032 / A048 range. In my experience the decision is (in part) swayed towards the Toyos because they are generally quite a bit cheaper than the A048 equivalent. The A032's really are very soft even by the standards of these kinds of tyres, and it's important to factor in some level of wear resistance if you intend to use tyres like these on a daily basis. As we will see, high wear is one of the key disadvantages of this class of tyre. To be honest if you must have the stickiest tyres on your car when you go out at Brands, it's probably a better bet to go all the way and put some full slicks on a second set of wheels.

 

Construction:

The R888 is an R-rated radial tyre, but with a number of key changes compared to the T1-R and T1-S road tyres. These are

Use of a medium race rubber compound, increasing dry grip and expense increased wear and reduced cold weather performance
Fewer, but larger rain channels, exposing a much larger percentage of rubber to the road than found in a road tyre
Significantly strengthened and reinforced tyre casing compared with normal road tyres

Inflation pressures are similar to those used on normal road tyres, but a few considerations need to be understood (see below)

 

Out on the Road:

In truth the R888 is an acquired taste. You will either love them or hate them. The main issues with using the R888 on an everyday basis are:

 

The Noise

The first thing you will notice about the tyres is the drone from them. These are not designed for "comfort". The combination of sticky compound, motorsport "cut slick" design and heavy steel reinforcement within the carcass makes for a relatively noisy journey. On a personal level I have to say I don't really notice it anymore (the induction kit and stereo always drown the noise out!) but even now passengers are sometime given to asking if there is something wrong with my CV joints due to the noise. Noise is a penalty you have to pay for the performance these tyres offer.

 

The Tramlining

The R888's sidewalls are significantly stronger than anything you will find on a road tyre. Under extreme conditions on the race track this means that the sidewalls will not distort in the same way that a normal road tyre will, and results in both a much higher level of cornering performance, but also means track use wears the edges of the tyre far less quickly than a road tyre will.

There is a downside to all of this of course... the rigid sidewalls (which hardly deflate even when the tyre has a puncture!) mean that the wheels do tramline badly compared to road tyres, following every groove, ripple and white line marking on the road surface. This effect is even more pronounced in the wet.

To start with I found this aspect of the tyres' performance fairly un-nerving. In my case the effect was amplified by the car also being fitted with a (smaller) aftermarket Momo steering wheel as well as a Quaife ATB. However I found that this tramlining is something you quickly adapt your driving style to, and I don't really notice the effect any more unless I jump into someone else's car and suddenly find I'm not gripping the wheel quite so hard!

 

The Soft Rubber Compound

Let's make no bones about it. The R888 is a racing tyre made road legal. As such the tyre is made from a significantly softer compound than anything you will get on a normal road tyre. Whilst this means that when in the dry and at the correct operating temperature the tyre's dynamic envelope is extrordinary, it also mean that the tyre will wear approximately twice as fast as a road tyre. The soft rubber is also prone to punctures and cuts, and small stones will be picked up and hurled at the car behind you (which is why I always tell A1VR6 and Wendy to drive in front of me to VW meets!).

 

As a racing tyre, the R888 is designed to operate within a different temperature range to road tyres. The typical road tyre is designed to perform best within a temperature range of 10deg - 50deg, whilst the R888 is designed to perform best in the 35deg-85deg zone. This means two things; firstly that they can be quite skittish until some temperature is in them, but also that they are working thier best when being worked on track at temps that melt the rubber of normal road tyres. Unsurprisingly the wear rate of the tyre is higher in the summer months compared with the colder winter ones, as the hot road surfaces in July almost pull the skin off them in daily use.

 

At these temperatures (which are typically attained after 4-5 miles of modest driving) not only do you have access to extraordinary levels of lateral grip, but also braking power as well as the tyres resist locking very well even with big brake kits fitted. One of the unexpected side-effects of this is that you learn to check your oil more often; the G-forces produced by the tyres in braking and cornering can be so great that oil surge can become a genuine problem should the oil level get much lower than ½ dipstick. I always seem to carry a spare 2 litres of Castrol in the boot these days just in case I get caught out...

 

As if that wasn't bad enough consideration must be given to the state of your suspension if you decide to fit the R888s. The G-forces and sheer duress placed on the wishbones, steering, shocks, top mounts, CV joints, bearings and bushes from these tyres will expose problems in any of these areas very quickly. Also you should expect some reduction in the life expectancy of these items should you run the R888's and drive hard with any regularity. Checking them regularly becomes a necessity, not a once-a-year-at-MOT time option.

 

Grip in the wet is actually a lot better than you would initially think. In fact the tyre exceeds the grip of a normal road tyre in wet/damp road conditions due to the sheer amount of rubber contacting the road. However all this changes as soon as water begins to sit on top of the road surface; with a large rubber area and comparatively few water channels, the R888 is a tyre you have to treat with great respect when standing water abounds. Indeed even maintaining a steady motorway 70mph in "medium" rain is a matter of bravery, and so 60mph becomes more the norm in those conditions. Aquaplaning is an almost common occurance - you only need to hit a puddle at 60mph and you're there. Again this is something I have just learned to adapt my driving style to, but some people might find it very constraining or risky.

 

Wear is not as bad as you might think, but still bad by road car standards. Typically I have been getting through a set of fronts on my VR6 at around every 6,000 miles. The rears are holding up better, but will still need replacement at around 15,000 I think. BY comparison I used to get 11,000-14,000 from a set of T1-S road tyres on my previous Corrado.

 

Costs:

The R888 is not as expensive as you might think, but the costs of running them are obviously significantly higher as they wear so much more quickly. In my locality R888's in 205x40xR17 can be had for £105each incl fitting and balancing, compared to £90-£95 for the equivalent Toyo T1-S

 

 

Summary:

In summary the Toyo R888 is a specialist kind of tyre which may not be to everyone's tastes.

 

On one hand you get a tyre with extraordinary performance, capable of G-forces and cornering you would not believe possible, especially when combined with a Quaife ATB. Realistically you are very unlikely to exceed the grip of the tyres safely on the road once they are at operating tempereture.

 

However there are sacrifices to be made; the noise, the wear rate, the tramlining, the increased chances of punctures, the poor wet weather performance... If you think you can stand all that lot then the R888 might just be something you might want to consider. Certainly I don't ever want to go back to normal tyres again...

[GVK 0]

Great review, I run them on my mk2, road and track, wet or dry!

[corozin 0]

Out of interest, what is your own experience of the wear issue as fitted to your Golf? I know it's subjective & depends a lot on your driving style etc but would be interested to know.

 

I have to say that the Japster-owners have picked up on tyres like the R888 with enthusiasm, but they are still a very rare sight on other performance cars outside of the light/sports models I mentioned. Certainly rare on Volkswagens anyway.

[GVK 0]

I've just ordered another set for the front, the ones on there lasted about 3k, including two full track days. I ran AO48s before - they seem to wear a bit better than the R888s, but cost much more!

 

Rears will last a good while yet.

 

Quite a few of my mates use them on their track day Golfs.

[PhatVR6 0]

amazing tyres, i will be buying more

 

 

that was in the first day of use!

[corozin 0]

Although many of my friends will disagree with me saying this, clearly I don't drive as hard on my R888's as either of you guys.

 

Seriously... I get overtaken about 4 times a year anywhere and I still get 6k out of a set of fronts. I don't know how you guys manage it !

 

Well... that is a bit of a lie... I've seen PhatVR6 drive a few times and I know how he melts his tyres... LOL

[PhatVR6 0]

It's called "getting them up to temperature" :-)

[VeeDub Geezer 0]

great review!

[chazrad 0]

Well done John,

 

Good review. I know you love them! what should I put on my new 17s when I get 'raound to it then?! 8)

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

im running these on my G60 at the moment in 205/40/17 form, they are REALLY sticky. was having a play with a ford Cougar and hitting the brakes and going round a tight corner has never been safer! they stick like sh*t. nebver known anything like em, way better than Proxes T1s etc.

 

mine should last a while too, as the corrado will be my weekend car soon, when the 2.016vG60 goes in. reccommended to anyone who wants the best around.

[corozin 0]

Well done John,

Good review. I know you love them! what should I put on my new 17s when I get 'raound to it then?! 8)

 

Yo Charlie,

Well on one hand you don't do big mileages in yours, but on the other hand the roads around your way will pull them about like there's a rope attached with all the potholes & ripples etc.

 

Remember that the "un-nerving" first journey I mentioned up top where I scared myself with the tramlining effect was driving across Wiltshire to your place from Swindon!

 

Perhaps I'll have to take you out in it properly (unlike last time where the suspension bushes were hanging on by a thread), let you experience some g-force and you can make your own mind up... I just want an opportunity to scare the beejeezus out of you really...

 

John

p.s. I said in the original post that "what are those tyres like?" is the most often asked question I get when people see the car for the first time. The next most-asked questions are:

2) Why didn't you bother to clean it?

3) Is it really true that dent in the driver door is Guy's Hartley's arseprint?

:D

[Toad 0]

3)Is it really true that dent in the driver door is Guy's Hartley's arseprint?

 

Hahaha. I like that story.

[dukest 0]

The soft rubber is also prone to punctures and cuts, and small stones will be picked up and hurled at the car behind you (which is why I always tell A1VR6 and Wendy to drive in front of me to VW meets!).

 

I'm sure i read this when you originally posted it John, but i obviously didn't pay enough attention as i got a windscreen chip leaving Brands behind you whenever we were all down there. :grin:

 

but anyway, i just found some 888s for a good price and so i'm going to give them a try now its "summer", looking forward to it :D

[CTWG60 0]

Where can you buy these from now fitted? Struggling! And wouldn't mind trying some on the front this summer.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

never seen this thread before,but never the less its a great right up as ive been pondering on getting some 888's for some time!

[Toad 0]

Where can you buy these from now fitted? Struggling! And wouldn't mind trying some on the front this summer.

 

Only problem with only fitting them to the front is that your rear end might see a bit more action.... I have had the back break out on me a few times in the wet when I've had good tyres up front and shonkey units out back. Dunno if it would be an issue or not, but might be worth considering...

[CTWG60 0]

Where can you buy these from now fitted? Struggling! And wouldn't mind trying some on the front this summer.

 

Only problem with only fitting them to the front is that your rear end might see a bit more action.... I have had the back break out on me a few times in the wet when I've had good tyres up front and shonkey units out back. Dunno if it would be an issue or not, but might be worth considering...

 

I've got good eagle F1's on the back, as you say, bad tyres on the rear is never good, been there bought the t-shirt ect. I'm hoping for a little more traction off the line, better grip when braking and more turn in and less diff action in corners. :D Want to fit some stiffer (not lower, much anyway) springs and a rear ARB. But the tyres will need replacing soonish. So...

[20vturbo 0]

im going to be putting a set on my corrado, that report just sealed the deal, now i have to get them.

[dukest 0]

Where can you buy these from now fitted? Struggling! And wouldn't mind trying some on the front this summer.

 

i've placed my order with Tyretraders as they were the best price and listed them in 15s but Simply Tyres do them as well and BlackCircles offer them in 17s afaik. dont think you can get them in a 16 from what i've seen..

[CTWG60 0]

Hey that's not bad £80.80 each fitted in 195/50R15 82V R8882G form cool! :D

[dukest 0]

yeah, pretty good i thought!! :D just hoping they hold stock/can actually get them! will let you know if there's any issues on monday though. :salute:

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

been running these on my VR6 for the last 6 months, on my standard 15's brilliant tyre, got them swapped over front to back last week, to even out the wear. done about 6k with them and they still have a few mm left on them, grip is amazing. dont know if i'd be able to drive another car safely without them!

[dukest 0]

thats good to hear stoney, any particular things to pay attention to from your point of view?

 

cheers

john

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

only negative thing that i can think of is the cost, but then again, so what ? the tyres are so much better than anything else out there, oh and you might get comments from other people saying you've got a dodgy wheel bearing or it sounds like its supercharged, because they let off a very little whine at certain speeds. wear-wise i reckon they'll need to be replaced in 4-6 months, probably less as its getting warmer and i dont drive 'that' hard all the time. but the cornering on them is fantastic, you will give up before the tyre does! BUY THEM NOW!!!!

[dukest 0]

i have! :grin: