VR6 Baffled sump?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

4Motion and R32 sumps are completely different and the purpose of fitting it is for oil surge protection rather than reducing oil temps.

 

I have a 4motion sump in the shed and will check it's part number against yours, but if you didn't change the oil pump, then it's definitely a 4motion sump you have there.

[12 DEG BEN 0]

The oil temp thing was being discussed on another thread a long time ago about alloy sumps running cooler because of the 1 litre extra volume and potential cooling because of the alloy itself. Just stating it makes bog all difference. Mine definately has more than 2 baffles though. And good to meet you at the rolling road day. Your performance on the RR was amazing for the power and lack of any real drama whilst doing it.

[corozin 0]

I've had a baffled sump made for my VR6 and it was relatively easy and cheap to do. Schrick used to sell a 'drop in' baffle kit years ago but it's long gone out of production. The reason I mention it is that you may come across one if you are very very lucky. Anyway onto the 'DIY build'

 

First of all a replacement ABV sump is dirt cheap; they're like £15 or something from the dealer. That solves the problems of sourcing it cheaply, the problem of cleaning it up so you can weld baffles into it, and since it's steel and not crappy (and weak) alloy makes the issue of actually welding with it much easier.

 

Into that we welded two simple north/south baffle plates with a 2-3 inch gap at opposite ends on each one to allow the oil to flow (in a kind of Z-pattern route if you can imagine that). Obviously a little bit of measuring was required to ensure no contact with the spinning crank. Job done - total cost was less than £50.

 

That said on a VR6 there really isn't a lot of point in baffling the sump unless you are planning to do lots and lots of track work. Even then the VR6 sump is frankly deep enough that you shouldn't need to baffle it provided you don't allow the oil level to drop too far during the day (as most trackday organisers recommend you keep it topped up).

 

The only reason I've had it done is because my own car is set up for track work on R888's and so the lateral g-forces generated are a fair bit more than any normal or modified VR6 will attain. Personally I wouldn't bother if I were you.

 

HTH,

John

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The oil temp thing was being discussed on another thread a long time ago about alloy sumps running cooler because of the 1 litre extra volume and potential cooling because of the alloy itself. Just stating it makes bog all difference.

 

Yeah I agree with that, I think it's the finned alloy sumps that offer some level of cooling. I can't remember what was discussed at the time, too long ago, LOL!

 

good to meet you at the rolling road day. Your performance on the RR was amazing for the power and lack of any real drama whilst doing it.

 

Thank you sir :D I prefer to keep things subtle and controlled where possible :wink:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

First of all a replacement ABV sump is dirt cheap; they're like £15 or something from the dealer.

 

£45+ VAT actually. And the gasket required is another £20+VAT on top.

 

and since it's steel and not crappy (and weak) alloy makes the issue of actually welding with it much easier.

 

That old chestnut again. How many VW alloy sumps have you smashed into the ground to know they're weak and crappy? Sweeping statements R us.

In actual fact, you are a LOT more likely to whack the steel sump into the ground than you are the R32 sump.

 

Into that we welded two simple north/south baffle plates with a 2-3 inch gap at opposite ends on each one to allow the oil to flow (in a kind of Z-pattern route if you can imagine that). Obviously a little bit of measuring was required to ensure no contact with the spinning crank. Job done - total cost was less than £50.

 

Think I'll pass on that and stick with the real deal thanks :D

 

That said on a VR6 there really isn't a lot of point in baffling the sump

 

There's always a point. What's wrong with good old fashioned, british over engineering and building for purpose? :salute:

 

unless you are planning to do lots and lots of track work. Even then the VR6 sump is frankly deep enough that you shouldn't need to baffle it

 

I'd agree in the case of the car's original roly poly suspension, but as VW have discovered with the R32, lowered and stiffened suspension makes the car move less, and therefore the oil more. They see the need for it - on a road car - and so do I :wink:

 

The only reason I've had it done is because my own car is set up for track work on R888's and so the lateral g-forces generated are a fair bit more than any normal or modified VR6 will attain.

 

No use trying to justify it now! After slamming the R32 option as a weak and crap waste of time and money, you can't then endorse your "£50" option just because you've put some track tyres on your car.

 

Personally I wouldn't bother if I were you.

 

Tell that to JoeM.

[corozin 0]

Well clearly you know f**king everything Kev and so there really is no point in anyone else contributing to a thread is there?

 

Why is it that you just cannot bring yourself to appreciate that someone - anyone - has a different experience or view point to you? You hardly bloody know me, and yet here you go YET AGAIN the bloody keyboard warrior.

 

For your reference I have "banged" a few sumps in my time, which is probably a consequence of running cars that were low enough to actually bang them. The VR6 steel sump is as tough as bloody nails, and anyone who saw the clangs in the sump of M100 VRG when I had it would testify to that (not that you would know about that would you). At the same time I also personally know two 4Motion owners and also the owner of an R32 who will testify to the weakness of the sumps on those cars, in each case the sump was ripped off in grounding incidents. That was the basis for my experience and hence my comments. You should just accept that I have a different opinion to you.

 

In addition I didn't Just endorse my own baffled sump because I've some track tyres. I've been doing track days for almost ten years now, and in a situation where my whole engine was in bits already it seemed a good preventative measure for the money. In fact I've never suffered oil starvation on a VR6 at any trackday I've done (which was a point I made) and as such it's also fair comment (are you reading this Kevin - FAIR COMMENT) to say based on my experience that there is limited point in baffling this type of car for track use.

 

I'm not even going to dignify the other crap you've written with a response pal. I'd be here all fuggin night. Just accept that one of the points of a forum is for people to share opinions, experiences and recommendations other than your own. This is not the first time you've baited me on this forum and I'm fed up with you doing it. As a moderator you should know even better and set an example

 

Don't respond to this - just read it, absorb it, and accept it.

 

John

[12 DEG BEN 0]

Thanks guys. Think thats most the bases covered on sumps and stuff. The options are there for people to explore. Vr6 engines in reality dont need baffled sumps except for extreme track situations. Standards can be modified, 4Motions area straight swap alloy and R32s need extra bits but are less likely to ground out. Best not to ground either really.

[Toad 0]

I thought that the alloy ones provided greater capacity and increased cooling? Or did I get confused again?

 

Good to see you back John, how's the car going? Will you be at Stanford?

[KipVR 1]

I also personally know two 4Motion owners and also the owner of an R32 who will testify to the weakness of the sumps on those cars

 

You'll have to wear through the wishbone joints before you ground the R32 sump on a Corrado though (as previously mentioned I think), having worn through a few steel ones it's a blessing to have one that is higher up. You can weld up the ally ones no probs either as mine was bought damaged from a scrapper and patched up.

 

But yes if it is banged the ally gets it where the steel would just bend/scar

[corozin 0]

I thought that the alloy ones provided greater capacity and increased cooling? Or did I get confused again?

Good to see you back John, how's the car going? Will you be at Stanford?

 

Hi Tom, collected it back from it's rebuild this week since you mention. Booked for final tuning/mapping on May 8th.

Notwithstanding the petrol crisis we're possibly about to have, I will be at Stanford Hall next weekend.

[12 DEG BEN 0]

Tom, from my experience it makes no difference to the oil temperature. You would think a larger volume by a whole litre would mean it works less hard but not in reality.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well clearly you know f**king everything Kev and so there really is no point in anyone else contributing to a thread is there?

 

Why is it that you just cannot bring yourself to appreciate that someone - anyone - has a different experience or view point to you? You hardly bloody know me, and yet here you go YET AGAIN the bloody keyboard warrior.

 

Oh get over yourself. You're stubborn, I'm stubborn, simple as. You calling me a keyboard warrior is a bit hypocritical :lol:

 

So then, explain why your opinions are valid and acceptable, and mine aren't?

 

I put the part numbers and info up as a favour for a friend and to act as useful reference for anyone else contemplating the R32 sump mod. If you hadn't waded in and bashed it as a "weak, crappy and pointless idea", and then contradicted yourself by saying the weld-in method was good, we wouldn't be having this heated debate now. I do accept your weld-in method as useful "different experience and view point" , but I don't like the way in which it was presented.

 

I'm not even going to dignify the other crap you've written with a response pal. I'd be here all fuggin night. Just accept that one of the points of a forum is for people to share opinions, experiences and recommendations other than your own. This is not the first time you've baited me on this forum and I'm fed up with you doing it. As a moderator you should know even better and set an example

 

You still have a surprising amount to say though, and there you go again, what I say is crap, but what you say isn't. Baiting you? I was merely intrigued as to why you thought the R32 sump was such a waste of time but you went and baffled yours anyway. Not my fault you can't control your temper :lol:

 

And I have no idea why being a mod removes my right to reply.

 

Don't respond to this - just read it, absorb it, and accept it.

 

I'll respond to what ever I feel like responding to thanks. Ever thought of becoming a dictator?

 

You may not like me John, and I know a lot of other people don't either, or my posting style....but without blowing my own trumpet, I'm always quick to pass on savings, knowledge and help 8)

What have you contributed?

[marcus 0]

Cheesewire and Corozin have clearly missed eachother :clap: ..keep it up lads :nuts: ....aggression is a sign of affection :lol:

[herisites 0]

...but without blowing my own trumpet, I'm always quick to pass on savings, knowledge and help 8)

 

Agreeeeeeeeed BIG time!! :notworthy:

[Critical_Mass 10]

Come on lads, just agree to disagree and all that, just move on........ 8)

[Joe M 0]

Vr6 engines in reality dont need baffled sumps except for extreme track situations.

 

Can be less extreme than you think, having managed to get some oil starvation to the bottom end of my vr killing the engine at Oulton Park. It was wet and I was on road tyres.

I wont get into arguments over what method is best for baffling a sump but ANY way of doing it would be highly recommended by myself for any track use.

If I keep my car and take up trackdays again I like the idea of this R32 sump (first ive read about it, being an occasional user of the forum nowadays.)

 

As for grounding the sumps out and smashing up, try raising your car a bit? They handle better if there facing slightly up towards the engine anyway...

[Joe M 0]

Should also have mentioned, an oil cooler is a must for track days. Id say 16row at least.

[corozin 0]

Come on lads, just agree to disagree and all that, just move on........ 8)

 

Well I have to apologise for falling for the bait again. I just detest having my (hopefully helpful) suggestions & experience dissected and argued for apparently no reason other than a difference of opinion. I found his (unprovoked) post aggressive, bullying and unnecessary and I am no more prepared to accept that kind of behaviour on a forum than I would face to face.

 

As I said earlier the best groups benefit from a range of ideas, viewpoints and experience. I do not accept that my views are the only ones worth considering, but I hope people will find them helpful or informative, in the same way that Kevin's information frequently is. For clarification I didn[t actually say the idea of an R32 sump was weak and crappy, I actually said I thought that I thought the R32 sump itself was weak and crappy and that is an important distinction, because I wasn't attacking a person, merely opining (fairly) that the R32 one isn't anything like as robust for those of us who clang them on the ground occasionally.

 

I have no personal axe to grind with Cheesewire or anyone else on here, but at the same time I will not sit here quietly and not respond if I am attacked and argued with for nothing more than (what I thought was) a helpful contribution to the topic.

 

@Cheesewire - I think we should just agree not to respond to each others posts in future. It will be quieter that way.

 

Love to everyone,

John

[12 DEG BEN 0]

Thats better. You too are really bold personalities and this forum is better off with some people who put across there knowledge and strongly justify there choices. :notworthy:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

My reply wasn't meant as a personal attack, John. I just quote particular passages as it helps remind myself of what I'm replying to, it's certainly not intended as "baiting". Sorry you saw it that way.

 

I'm not going to avoid answering posts for fear of upsetting you again, but I think we both need to review the way we come across on here sometimes, and I think that may help calm the situation more than avoiding eachother. And in future, I won't quote you.

 

Oh, what's this.....is that an olive branch I see? :wink:

[Critical_Mass 10]

Good stuff! :D

 

but I think we both need to review the way we come across on here sometimes

 

I've always said that its hard to interpret what someones tone is like when youre reading their text. I've been a victim of it before myself.

[corozin 0]

My reply wasn't meant as a personal attack, John. I just quote particular passages as it helps remind myself of what I'm replying to, it's certainly not intended as "baiting". Sorry you saw it that way.

 

I'm not going to avoid answering posts for fear of upsetting you again, but I think we both need to review the way we come across on here sometimes, and I think that may help calm the situation more than avoiding eachother. And in future, I won't quote you.

 

Oh, what's this.....is that an olive branch I see? :wink:

 

That's fine Kev. We had everyone else going there for a bit didn't we, haha.

[To all spectators] Peace & unity has broken out. We're both looking for new targets now :wink:

 

Cheers,

John

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah, which thread can we fake a war on next? :lol:

[paul20v 0]

carry on guys as long as theres no fisty cuffs it makes good reading opinions are what makes us all different right or wrong :salute:

[corozin 0]

carry on guys as long as theres no fisty cuffs it makes good reading opinions are what makes us all different right or wrong :salute:

 

Well Kevin & I already have each other booked on long term entertainment contract. Queensbury rules, no fisting .

 

But don't let that stop you finding yourself a playmate... might be a little harder than it used to be now that my chum PhatVR6 isn't on this forum anymore. He was (still is) the king of strongly held opinion!

:wave: