herisites 0 Posted July 15, 2007 I dont usually start topics when working on my car as i can find everything i need to know on here by using the search, but i cant find an answer from searching and im just so annoyed now i need some help!! Yesterday i changed the passenger side outer CV joint on my car as when i had to change the boot last month for my mot i noticed a lot of play in it and Simon69 who helped me said it was pretty fudged. It wasnt clunking though, it was droning when going fast ish round a right hand bend which indicates wheel bearing but we checked the bearing and it didnt have any play (although im awar that they can still be gone even with no play) and Simon said a nackered joint will make droning noise as higher speeds (he's a mechanic). So i bought a new joint from GSF which came with everything i needed. So i changed the joint and boot etc, put it back together and took it for a drive. However i noticed it was now droning constantly, even in a straight line, so i wasnt very happy about that. So today i went back out there and took it apart again and noticed i forgot to put the washers in (whoops!!) so i put the washers in the RIGHT way round as i checked the bentley and how they came out the old one. Then put it back together again adding more grease as had to lose some, double checked it and im pretty sure it was right, the order was boot > washers > C clip > joint, then put it all back together (with camber obviously well out!) and took it for a drive. Well now for some bloody reason the noise is louder!! Constant droning with the wheel rotations when driving along, and it drove like sh*t because of the camber etc. So does anyone have any ideas what the bloody hell it could be that i have done wrong?? Could it be that now the joint is new its the bearing making the noise which wasnt obvious before?? Will it still be safe to drive on carefully until i can get it to a garage to be checked out and if necessary replace bearing and do tracking?? Cheers, Rob. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herisites 0 Posted July 15, 2007 Well i went out to check for play etc and noticed that the wheel was that cambered the tire was just touching the suspension :shock: so back on with the old clothes and adjusted the camber with the help of a spirit level, now its ever so slightly more cambered than the other wheel but generally a LOT closer to how it should be to what it was. Took it for a spin and the driving is obviously a lot better but the droning noise is still there, but not as loud just a low drone now. So im thinking perhaps it is the wheel bearing after all?? Also whilst i have peoples attention i just sourced the problem to why my car clunks/creaks when turning the steering stationary and at low speeds and its the top mounts. I got my bro to turn the steering lock to lock whilst i stuck my ear near each top mount and they are clunking, the plate on top in the engine bay is turning as it clunks. So what do you reckon is the problem there as they were new top mounts when i fitted the coilovers including new bearings? Have i not put the bearings on correctly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davidwort 0 Posted July 15, 2007 Did you move the car at all on it's wheel without the driveshafts in place?, this will trash the bearings. Did you check out the old CV joint for wear, clean it up and you should be able to see the state of the ball bearings and races? If it's not too bad then perhaps it was the bearings all along. What quality were the top mount bearings, I've heard cheap ones can last all of 5 minutes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simon69 0 Posted July 15, 2007 Hi mate, Your not having much luck are you!!! ;) Sorry don't mean to take the P. The drone sounds to me like bearing, when you got the new ones did you change the hub too (bit with bolt holes in that goes round)? Did you see them do the job? It's possible they buggered the seal or otherwise damaged the unit as it was fitted. When the car is jacked up (i.e. wheel free of the ground) is there any play? You should be able to grab the wheel at 12 / 6 and at 9 / 3 and NOT feel any play in the bearing (like the MOT testers do basically) Also check all the others too, just to be on the safe side. Umm last thing, when you fitted the outer CV, did you torque the hub nut properly? They need doing up F'ing tight and (among other things) they keep the bearing & hub "together" in the up-right, so if it's loose (or not tight enough) you can get bearing and / or hub failure or premature wear. Lastly, not being funny but you have umm well lol lets say non std size and ET wheels, this will also bring about premature and / or excessive wear, of course I know there's like a million (ok a few) people also running similar who may or may not have any problems... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herisites 0 Posted July 15, 2007 Hi mate, Your not having much luck are you!!! ;) Sorry don't mean to take the P. The drone sounds to me like bearing, when you got the new ones did you change the hub too (bit with bolt holes in that goes round)? Did you see them do the job? It's possible they buggered the seal or otherwise damaged the unit as it was fitted. When the car is jacked up (i.e. wheel free of the ground) is there any play? You should be able to grab the wheel at 12 / 6 and at 9 / 3 and NOT feel any play in the bearing (like the MOT testers do basically) Also check all the others too, just to be on the safe side. Umm last thing, when you fitted the outer CV, did you torque the hub nut properly? They need doing up F'ing tight and (among other things) they keep the bearing & hub "together" in the up-right, so if it's loose (or not tight enough) you can get bearing and / or hub failure or premature wear. Lastly, not being funny but you have umm well lol lets say non std size and ET wheels, this will also bring about premature and / or excessive wear, of course I know there's like a million (ok a few) people also running similar who may or may not have any problems... Hi Simon, Well i have the standard speedlines on now as i have bought some 288 brakes after all and the big wheels dont fit over them, i need them for when i charger the car as standard brakes wont be up to it, also the big wheels just arent practical for daily driving and especially if im going to put more power through them! So i will be getting some practical 16" wheels i think. As for the CV joint, i done the hub nut up pretty damn tight but i shall try and tighten it a bit more in the morning before setting off to work just to be sure. I dont have a torque wrench so couldnt do it properly so i just done it up pretty darn tight myself. The droning certainly does sound like bearing noise, after i took it out and noticed it was making more noise i checked the wheels for play by shaking the wheel with hands at 12 and 6 o'clock positions like you say and i cant notice much play really! But my mate reckons that by removing the old CV joint in a rather harsh way (lump hammer!) i have most probably fcuked the bearing up which makes sense really as the CV was a pig to get out the hub again but not AS bad as when we did it before. Also i didnt change the hub and havent changed the bearings, just the outer cv joint on its own. David - i didnt move the car with the shaft out as it was up on axle stands, i just removed the wheels, brakes, undone the ball joint from the wishbone and undone the strut bolts and removed the shaft from the hub and then replaced it still on the car. I havent checked the old one yet, but i changed the CV joint as like i said when me and Simon changed the cv boot for my mot he noticed there was play in the joint and said it would be best to change it so i did, as i will be putting more power through it soon so wanted to make sure everything is good. So it makes sense to do the bearings anyway really! As for the top mounts, i got them from G-Werks with my coilovers so dont know about quality but guessing they should be ok? My mate thinks maybe the top mount bolts (above the plate in the engine bay) are not done up tight enough so the top mounts are able to twist as i turn the steering. Does that seem possible? I suppose i am going to have to take the car to the garage ASAP anyway to get the bearings done so i might as well ask them to check it out or just see if they are done up enough etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simon69 0 Posted July 16, 2007 Well good news on the wheels (from a parts lasting longer point of view lol) Pretty damn tight? ;) well I can't remember the torque value off the top of my head but it's high! The SCCA guys in the US over tighten them to help stop bearing failure too, so I usualy torque em them give em an extra swing... We are talking two foot long torque wrench here I would say x2 removals of the CV with a bl**dy great hammer will have "seen off" the bearing for good! I seem to recall mentioning at the time that it would be best to change the lot, expensive, but best. You can't really smack roundy roundy parts about like that an then expect them to last for long. On a side note, I've just pushed both out on my VR (I'm putting my Gemini in and thought I'd pull em and re-pack the grease on the bench) both sides had lock-tight in em, but a quick smack with the dead blow was enough to shock em free. Has anyone else found lock-tight in there? I know it's more £££ but I'd change the hub as well as the bearing, it's likely that they are original but more because of the way the CV's seem to jam in it, seems like the hub may have some issues too you know... Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herisites 0 Posted July 16, 2007 Hi Simon, That sounds like the hub nut needs to be VERy tight then so i will add a long extension on the wrench and give it all i got then. I have booked the car into the garage in the morning to get the bearings done, costly but gotta be done! So hopefully that will sort it out. I told them the situation that i changed the cv joint and now its joining and they said that it does sound as if i have fcuked the bearing by whacking it but they are going to road test it anyway to make sure. I just want it sorted out now! I will ask them to cheque if my top mounts are done up tight enough as well as i think that could be why they are turning/clunking as you can only do them up so much before the coils start turning with it so probably not done up enough! I shall update tomorrow! Thanks for the help so far though! Rob. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vwdeviant 0 Posted July 16, 2007 Rob, you should have come to Brands instead! :lol: best of luck getting this sorted, I have a CV to do as well... Just added that and sort the fan out onto the growing list of jobs... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herisites 0 Posted July 16, 2007 Rob, you should have come to Brands instead! :lol: best of luck getting this sorted, I have a CV to do as well... Just added that and sort the fan out onto the growing list of jobs... Yeah i bloody wish i had come now :lol: Oh and my list of jobs gets bigger every day and even though i seem to be doing something to the car all the time, the list never seems to go down :lol: Not far off now though, once the bearing is done and i have sorted out clunks and squeeks in the suspension i just gotta get some goodridge hoses and fit my ew 288's, then its on with the supercharger when i get it! I best go and order some goodridge hoses whilst i remember, great more money! :roll: :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herisites 0 Posted July 25, 2007 Bumping this but now want to get to the bottom of my top mount problem as i think they are getting worse and its pissing me off! Basically at low speeds when turning the steering my top mounts turn and clunk like a bastard, i only used to be able to hear it at very low parking speeds but now i can hear them when say turning into/out of roads and im sure the steering doesnt feel right because of them. The top mounts AND bearings were knew with my Weitec coilovers which i got in December now so actually a while ago! I cant remember them ever clunking when i put them on so im guessing maybe the bearing is shot as David suggested above? When i checked them i got my bro to turn the steering with the engine running whilst i watched the top mounts. The mounts were turning as it made the clunking and the gold plate on top started moving when the mount moved but then jumps back into place when the mount clunks? So it seems like the bearings as they should turn freely right? Anyone got part number for some new bearings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted July 25, 2007 Bearimgs are a common mk4 part so will be instock at the dealers - interestingly my mate at the Audi dealer says they generally only change the bearings and not the rubber dohnuts - I was under the impression that it was the rubber that would wear...! Mate - sounds like you have a spring not seated correctly but not sure if this is posible with coilies... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herisites 0 Posted July 25, 2007 Bearimgs are a common mk4 part so will be instock at the dealers - interestingly my mate at the Audi dealer says they generally only change the bearings and not the rubber dohnuts - I was under the impression that it was the rubber that would wear...! Mate - sounds like you have a spring not seated correctly but not sure if this is posible with coilies... Yeah thats what i thought. The coilies are in 2 parts, they have a smaller 'comfort' coil on top which turns on its own and then the main coil which is the height adjustable part. I have to go to vw later anyway to pick up a new expansion tank cap so i will grab some new bearings whilst there. If they are mk4 parts im guessing they should have some in stock i could take straight away? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yandards 0 Posted July 25, 2007 Bumping this but now want to get to the bottom of my top mount problem as i think they are getting worse and its pissing me off! Basically at low speeds when turning the steering my top mounts turn and clunk like a bastard, i only used to be able to hear it at very low parking speeds but now i can hear them when say turning into/out of roads and im sure the steering doesnt feel right because of them. The top mounts AND bearings were knew with my Weitec coilovers which i got in December now so actually a while ago! I cant remember them ever clunking when i put them on so im guessing maybe the bearing is shot as David suggested above? When i checked them i got my bro to turn the steering with the engine running whilst i watched the top mounts. The mounts were turning as it made the clunking and the gold plate on top started moving when the mount moved but then jumps back into place when the mount clunks? So it seems like the bearings as they should turn freely right? Anyone got part number for some new bearings? Right, lets just clarify that which you have to do when fitting wheel bearings to a VR. Step 1. Ignore the Bentley. There is a change on late VR's that will then effect all subsequent VR's that have wheel bearings done, this information is not in the Bentley. Step 2. As Dave has already mentioned above, don't move the car or put weight on the wheels once the hub nut is undone as it will break your shinny new bearings. Step 3. Put a small amount of oil on the twelve point hub nut on its contact surface with the hub (Flat bit of the nut where it touches the hub) and do it up as far as it will go without spinning the wheel. Step 4. Get a mate/relative or whatever to press the brake pedal. Step 5. Tighten the nut to 200Nm. Step 6. Loosen the nut one full turn. Step 7. Tighten the nut to 50Nm. Step 8. Mark a line on one of the points of the twelve point hub nut with a marker pen. Step 9. Mark a second line on the hub above the next twelve point. (This should give you two lines that are a twelve point apart = 30 degress) Step 10. Align the two marks. The reason you do it up then undo it is to ensure the driveshaft splines are correctly seated in the hub, this is a common practice on components that are an interference fit. Another potential issue with your car is that as it is lowered (a lot by the looks of your pic) it is likely that your driveshafts spend their time with the highest point at the wheel end, this will accelerate wear in your CV joints as they are not designed to do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herisites 0 Posted July 25, 2007 Cheers for that info Yan but i havent changed my wheel bearings yet, i bumped this thread and changed to it to top mount bearings so i didnt have to start a new thread. I am going to change my wheel bearings soon though as i think i have foobared the bearing by having to whack out the old cv joint plus doing them for piece of mind really as dont know when they were last done. What i wanted to know now was why my top mounts are clunking when turning the steering but think its the top mount bearings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yandards 0 Posted July 25, 2007 Cheers for that info Yan but i havent changed my wheel bearings yet, i bumped this thread and changed to it to top mount bearings so i didnt have to start a new thread. I am going to change my wheel bearings soon though as i think i have foobared the bearing by having to whack out the old cv joint plus doing them for piece of mind really as dont know when they were last done. What i wanted to know now was why my top mounts are clunking when turning the steering but think its the top mount bearings? Probably is, the OEM ones don't last that long on uprated suspension TBH, but they are a lot better than aftermarket poop. Part number is 1J0 412 249 and it should be £10.44 for the pair at full dealer price inc VAT. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herisites 0 Posted July 25, 2007 Cheers for that info Yan but i havent changed my wheel bearings yet, i bumped this thread and changed to it to top mount bearings so i didnt have to start a new thread. I am going to change my wheel bearings soon though as i think i have foobared the bearing by having to whack out the old cv joint plus doing them for piece of mind really as dont know when they were last done. What i wanted to know now was why my top mounts are clunking when turning the steering but think its the top mount bearings? Probably is, the OEM ones don't last that long on uprated suspension TBH, but they are a lot better than aftermarket poop. Part number is 1J0 412 249 and it should be £10.44 for the pair at full dealer price inc VAT. Thanks very much, i will try and get some tonight :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
