So how much power is too much power!?

[Leonard 0]

Ok so 7 years ago when I bought my VR6 I always thought 220bhp through the front wheels would be about spot on for the chassis.

 

Now I am about to go about getting that power i am having second thoughts...

 

Many of you guys and gals are running turbo's and superchargers now (and the Rotrex charger looks soooo impressive) I am wondering if I was way out with my initial impressions of the C's chassis?

 

So what are peoples impressions of cars running more power than just a VSR and cams. When is a LSD a MUST HAVE? At what power does it start to feel undrivable/unbalanced?

 

Peoples opinions greatly appreciated :-)

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Car's don't become unbalanced or undrivable purely because of the amount of power it has, but rather how that power is deployed.

 

The Veyron has 1000hp and 1000 odd lb/ft torque (limited!) and yet, a chimp like Clarkson or your Gran could drive it to the shops and back.

 

Take the MK5 R32.....it has horrid throttle mapping that delivers lots of grunt too soon, which makes acceleration shunty and awkward at slow speeds. It has a 1/4 of the Veyron's power but the Veyron is the easier car to drive smoothly because as they say, Power is nothing without control.....and my control is my right foot ;-)

 

I don't have any problems with 350hp. Obviously if you provoke wheel spin it will spin gladly, and that's with a Quaife diff....but it won't just sit there spinning for the sake of it just because it's a powerful car. As with any car, it will only do what the driver tells it to, so the skill is delicate throttle control and not being an idiot using inappropriate throttle openings at inappropriate moments :)

[Leonard 0]

Hello!

 

Cheers for the reply. I understand what you are saying and I have a fair bit of experience with powerful 4wd cars. However I am imagining you have to be very careful with the throttle if you are running 350bhp in a front wheel drive C. So does that take away some of the handling balance ie adjustability in corners, horrendous torque steer etc Glad you replied and have a Quaiffe :D You can maybe let me know how 'grabby' it makes the car feel. i drove a Focus RS and on the rough Peak district roads around where i live it proved a little tiring having to pull it back into line all the time (if you catch my drift)

 

:-)

[CrazyDave 0]

Well I'm not quite sure how much power my car has at the minute, but it drives really nice. It has loads of torque from 2500rpm. Changing up at 4K for every gear is a really nice 'quick' experience.

 

As with all things like this it's not so much that the power is over the top, you just have to be careful how and when you use it. With standard gear ratios 1st is very hard work and requires quite a bit of self control to get any use out of it at full throttle. 2nd is good in the dry, and an incredible sensation coming off roundabouts etc. The rest are no problem at the minute.

 

I would like to get an LSD at some point, because that will help loads with the lower gears. But the main thing is that all the bushes / suspension components are in good condition. Dampers don't last much more than 40-50k before they are getting tired. Bushes about the same, but I only fit new standard bushes and change them regularly to keep them 'tight', so as not to make the ride to severe.

 

Engine mounts should also be uprated, as this does improve the handling quite a lot, even on a standard VR.

 

On the whole, the chassis seems to cope very well with the extra 'go'.

[Leonard 0]

Thanks Dave. Totally agree with the keeping the chassis nice and tight comment. If mine wasnt pretty good i wouldnt be even considering more power until I had sorted it.

 

I guess you must be running 300bhp + arent you?

 

:-)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Dave is running a few less psi than me, about 8. Mine made about 320hp with 8psi, so he'll be around that.

 

In terms of torque steer, for sure the Quaife lets you know you have some serious grunt trying to escape via the front wheels (the wrong wheels :lol: ).....but....it's very controllable. I did have a ridiculously fast spooling turbo on mine and you had to tighten your grip on the steering wheel in 2nd and 3rd, but nothing more..... it doesn't slew left to right all over the road like some Focus RSs can.

 

On that note, I have read many times that the Focus's behaviour is often down to the tyres. Get them past half worn and it affects the car badly. The Rado VR is the same with F1s....it hates them past half worn.

Many owners either dump the factory fit continentals or make sure they don't go beyond half worn. The difference between a good one and a bad one is night/day!

 

And yeah, coming out of turns with the power on takes some finesse. With an open diff it can light up a tyre, but with the quaife it can send you across the road sideways because BOTH wheels are spinning, but it depends on tyres, geometry etc.

 

You can make good progress with part throttle boost though, so there's no need to pull of heroics at every oppurtunity :lol:

 

I save the full throttle boost for the tailgaters on the motorway !

[Leonard 0]

Thanks for that sounds good.

 

I think I need to try one any takers :D

 

I guess Storm must have a demo havent they?

[CrazyDave 0]

The other thing I forgot to mention was that the extra VR engine weight seems to help with traction (but only in the dry).

 

Boost mid corner in the wet is great fun :) as long as your ready for it! Takes some practice to get just right. And I'm sure that's when you really need the diff to stop the inside wheel lifting.

 

Storms Rotrex cars are very powerful. They really are pushing the limit of front drive VW's for road use (well until you look at Bill Schimmel's stuff on SPturbo.com!).

[Leonard 0]

Storms Rotrex cars are very powerful. They really are pushing the limit of front drive VW's for road use (well until you look at Bill Schimmel's stuff on SPturbo.com!).

 

How many Rotrex Corrado's have we got on the forum Dave do you know?

[CrazyDave 0]

Storms Rotrex cars are very powerful. They really are pushing the limit of front drive VW's for road use (well until you look at Bill Schimmel's stuff on SPturbo.com!).

 

How many Rotrex Corrado's have we got on the forum Dave do you know?

 

Mr Fusion (haven't heard from in a while), Hersites(just about to happen!) and PeteC. Can't think of any more. Saw PeteC's at ED38, sounded very refined, charger hardly makes any noise at idle, no belt tension issues (uses the standard VW tensioner) think it's making 310hp with 10psi.

[Leonard 0]

Saw PeteC's at ED38, sounded very refined, charger hardly makes any noise at idle, no belt tension issues (uses the standard VW tensioner) think it's making 310hp with 10psi.

 

Oooh that does sound spot on!

8)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Boost mid corner in the wet is great fun :) as long as your ready for it! Takes some practice to get just right. And I'm sure that's when you really need the diff to stop the inside wheel lifting.

 

The trouble with the Quaife type ATBs is a wheel must spin before the locking mechanism can engage, then it shunts up to 85% of the torque to the wheel with most grip. Only Sliiiiiiight snag is it takes a wee second to react in the wet when you give some beans in 2nd joining a roundabout....it's bloody hilarious....I've gone from the inside to outside lane automatically without touching the steering....adds new meaning to the phrase "driving with the throttle"....and then when the quaife grabs, you find yourself launching up the road with monumental grip (for a front driver in the wet at least). I'm not sure if mine's actually working properly tbh, but it's amusing anyway :lol:

 

In the dry though, a FWD with an ATB is unstoppable 8) The Focus RS was as fast, if not faster than an Evo 6 round a track I seem to remember from Evo's scribblings back then?

[Leonard 0]

Boost mid corner in the wet is great fun :) as long as your ready for it! Takes some practice to get just right. And I'm sure that's when you really need the diff to stop the inside wheel lifting.

 

The trouble with the Quaife type ATBs is a wheel must spin before the locking mechanism can engage, then it shunts up to 85% of the torque to the wheel with most grip. Only Sliiiiiiight snag is it takes a wee second to react in the wet when you give some beans in 2nd joining a roundabout....it's bloody hilarious....I've gone from the inside to outside lane automatically without touching the steering....adds new meaning to the phrase "driving with the throttle"....and then when the quaife grabs, you find yourself launching up the road with monumental grip (for a front driver in the wet at least). I'm not sure if mine's actually working properly tbh, but it's amusing anyway :lol:

 

In the dry though, a FWD with an ATB is unstoppable 8) The Focus RS was as fast, if not faster than an Evo 6 round a track I seem to remember from Evo's scribblings back then?

 

Now your putting me off again that sounds absolutely positively bloody deadly!!! LOL :lol:

 

Regularly get to drive an Evo 6 and I just cant see the Focus being as quick somehow. Might have something to do with the extra 100bhp over std though :D I really need to go out in one I think before I invest. May give Storm a ring and see if they can do owt.

 

Do you use your car everyday or is it a weekend toy only?

[junkie 0]

I also heard that the focus RS is more twitchy than a corrado with the same diff is down to the un equal length drive shafts been more uneven than the corrado.

[corozin 0]

Pah... don't listen to him. A Quaife ATB is probably one of the impressive upgrades you can do to a Corrado IMHO. Obviously it helps most if you've got the handling of the car buttoned down first, but I'm still amazed at the traction it provides when you push into it. Of course it takes some learning to make the best of it, and frankly if you try and exploit it on public roads youll be going so fast it actually becomes risky to other road users, but hell...

 

The downside to the Quaife ATB is what happens in the wet. If you go fast enough (ahem) the ATB will work fine until both front wheels light up and at that point you are guaranteed the kind of tank slapper that Kev described above. But you learn to drive within it's limits.

 

Kev - I think you must have your Quaife in back to front from what you've written! Sort it out!

[CrazyDave 0]

Kevs car and mine are daily drivers! Think thats why we fuss so much about drivability :)

 

Corozin is track mad and I can see why, cos you really get to drive the car at its limit.

 

Sounds like my kind of fun though, always been a front drive person. Looks like I need a diff on my shopping list next. Going to have to wait for a bit though.

 

Any front drive car is going to be fun with quite so much power, but the Corrado is still one of the best front drive chassis ever IMHO. :D

[Leonard 0]

Damn guys I really think Im gonna have to just go for it and sort my motor once and for all!

 

Thanks for all the info and opinions most has been very reassuring :lol:

 

Final question...and a practiacal one, do you think I should keep my VW Motorsport VSR and fit a Vortech Stage 2 as well or sell the VSR and just go for the Rotrex. I know its reasonably early days with the Rotrex but I am liking the 'stock' feel of it and its lack of noise. Or are you sold on your turbo's? Car will be a daily driver for me as well albeit 4k a year.

 

Cheers everyone had my C for a long time now and been on here now and again, but I'm only really starting to get the feel of the place and get involved :-)

[CrazyDave 0]

Final question...and a practiacal one, do you think I should keep my VW Motorsport VSR and fit a Vortech Stage 2 as well or sell the VSR and just go for the Rotrex. I know its reasonably early days with the Rotrex but I am liking the 'stock' feel of it and its lack of noise. Or are you sold on your turbo's? Car will be a daily driver for me as well albeit 4k a year.

 

If I was doing the all again, it'd be Rotrex all the way :D . I love the turbo, and the engineering has been fun (cos that's what I'm into), but the lack of quality VRT parts is a major problem for anybody doing a DIY job.

[chazrad 0]

 

Final question...and a practiacal one, do you think I should keep my VW Motorsport VSR and fit a Vortech Stage 2 as well or sell the VSR and just go for the Rotrex. I know its reasonably early days with the Rotrex but I am liking the 'stock' feel of it and its lack of noise. Or are you sold on your turbo's? Car will be a daily driver for me as well albeit 4k a year.

 

Cheers everyone had my C for a long time now and been on here now and again, but I'm only really starting to get the feel of the place and get involved :-)

 

Mate, for what its worth, I have a VW VSR fitted with my Stage 2 Vortech. Now, while its not necessarily a recommendation I've had no problems with them working together. Of course, the extra benefit of the VW VSR when you are FI anyway, is going to be slim. There is also the slight risk of the flap fatiguing with the extra pressures acting on it (heaven forbid, a piece ends up inside the engine). Thankfully, my VSR was rebuilt by Stealth before I bought it. And owning one for rareity value alone has, at the moment, persuaded me to keep it on the car. You can always sell it on later if you want to.

[Leonard 0]

Thanks Dave

 

Cheers Chazrad that is good to know that there are no compatibility issues. After taking so long to find the VSR (and have it rebuilt by Stealth) I am a bit loath to sell it but will have to see which route I choose to go.

 

:)

[craziscot 0]

Go Rotrex, I've had mine a few months, now its beded in its a demon!!! The power comes on hard and early and just keeps on pushing until the red line.

 

Storm have an excellant product which you'd be pushed to get the same kit fitted for a better price and get the same sort of performance. They quote 310 bhp as a bench mark on their stae 1 kit, as all the corrados they have done have all made at least that or more.

 

I'm never looking back!! :D

[Leonard 0]

Go Rotrex, I've had mine a few months, now its beded in its a demon!!! The power comes on hard and early and just keeps on pushing until the red line.

 

Storm have an excellant product which you'd be pushed to get the same kit fitted for a better price and get the same sort of performance. They quote 310 bhp as a bench mark on their stae 1 kit, as all the corrados they have done have all made at least that or more.

 

I'm never looking back!! :D

 

Hey Craziscot (sorry dont know ur name)

 

Oooo I bet your well chuffed with that! 8)

 

Can I please ask what you need to do to your engine to have this conversion (and is it covered in the price) is it just a checkover and uprated gaskets and rods? Also how much do Storm actually charge and what do they supply/fit for that? also did you go for a LSD?

 

Sorry for all the questions but one final boring question whats your mpg like now? :D

 

Cheers

 

Matt

:)

[marcus 0]

Always good to find out as much as you can Leanoard, so dont worry about the questions. BUT, mpg really isnt worth concerning yourself about...its always gona be low with modded engines. :-)

[Leonard 0]

Always good to find out as much as you can Leanoard, so dont worry about the questions. BUT, mpg really isnt worth concerning yourself about...its always gona be low with modded engines. :-)

 

LOL I know but I had to ask! :lol: Cant belive it costs £65 to fill the VR up now :shock:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

He he, quaifes aren't dangerous mate :lol:

 

That scenario was basically me bombing onto a roundabout with bad cambers, in the wet, covered in diesel and booting it in 2nd with a car that makes over 300lb/ft torque at 3000rpm....so I was a bit of an idiot. :lol:

 

A quaife can only contain so much and then it will spin both wheels as Corozin said. To be honest, my old BMWs used to make more of a meal of situations like that than the Corrado ever would, so FWD isn't always a bad thing.

 

Wheelspin is a good thing anyway as it spins away the excess torque harmlessly, rather than containing all that stress within the gearbox.

 

Yep mine's a daily and perfeclty tractable 8)