VR6 Power with Schrick VGI manifold and 268's?

[vrraddo6 0]

Guys,

 

I know there was a group buy done a while ago for Schrick VGI manifolds and 268 cams, I was wondering if any of you fella/fellaresses have fitted them and what sort of power/torque you are now making?

 

also if you had the car remapped and again, what sort of power/torque it made?

 

or

 

what would people expect to see (educated guesses welcome)

[dukest 0]

not got mine fitted yet but am working on the basis of around 220bhp and 210lb/ft based on an average to well-performing engine to start with.

[corozin 0]

That's about right. If you work on 215bhp you won't be disappointed - some make a couple more than that but it varies from engine to engine.

 

Of course to see what's possible you only need to wait a few weeks until mine comes back on the road. More will be revealed when it's finally run and mapped but I'm going to be making a lot more than 215bhp, and without a charger. Watch this space...

[alex303 0]

I bought my VGI in the G-Werks group buy and my VR's been running it along with some 268's i picked up from a friend and i'd say dukest's estimate is probably about right, mine's not been re-mapped yet but there's certainly still a hell of a difference! :D

[dukest 0]

Of course to see what's possible you only need to wait a few weeks until mine comes back on the road. More will be revealed when it's finally run and mapped but I'm going to be making a lot more than 215bhp, and without a charger. Watch this space...

yep, have heard about the figures you're aiming for john! will they have been verified when you get it back or will you be taking it somewhere to find out for yourself?

[vrraddo6 0]

Ah ha, Ive actually got a VR motor in my mk2, its got a 2.5" magnex, with cat by-pass, pipercross panel filter in a Corrado VR airbox, the ECU was remapped by Vince at stealth and it produced 195bhp and 192.7lbs/ft

 

I have fitted a VGI manifold, and a pair of 268's

 

but im having issues with my rear knock sensor (1) and it keeps sending the ecu in to the limp map..

 

but when its moving its is VERY fast!

 

Just wanted to know other peoples opinions/experiences....

[corozin 0]

Of course to see what's possible you only need to wait a few weeks until mine comes back on the road. More will be revealed when it's finally run and mapped but I'm going to be making a lot more than 215bhp, and without a charger. Watch this space...

yep, have heard about the figures you're aiming for john! will they have been verified when you get it back or will you be taking it somewhere to find out for yourself?

I will get the engine figured once it's run in, don't worry... this isn't being done by halves :wink:

 

Oh... I also have a VBox as well now. This will probably be the first road legal Corrado in the UK to generate over 1g lateral cornering and I aim to be able to prove that as well.

[RS VR6 0]

The numbers I've seen for VGi + 268's are around 170-175 wheel horsepower...on a Dynojet. About 195-200 bhp.

 

The cars also have a chip, 2.25 catback exhaust and an intake.

[dukest 0]

I will get the engine figured once it's run in, don't worry... this isn't being done by halves :wink:

don't doubt it :) I'm sure its going to be worthy of many thread inches!

[corozin 0]

Well since so few people are reading this thread (because it's not about bloody turbocharging) let's keep it a bit of a secret for the time being? If you look at the sticky "The Definitive tuning threads" above which one is missing? Looks like I'll have a whole thread to myself don't it, LOL.

[corozin 0]

To get back to the original question, in my experience the following mods will have the following approximate impact in done individually to a 2.9ABV lump

 

- Remapping : Approx 8bhp-12bhp

- VSR/Schrick VGI + remap : Approx 10bhp-18bhp (the VSR generates much larger impact on torque, but there is a BHP payoff generally)

- 268 cams : Approx 5bhp-7bhp

 

Of course all of this depends on the health of the engine to start with. Also mixing modifications does not result directly in an A+B+C=D improvement in power. Depending on what other changes you have made the output will often be less or more than the sum of the individual parts.

 

HTH

John

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well since so few people are reading this thread (because it's not about bloody turbocharging)

 

Oh get over yourself. People ignore my posts all the time but there's no point getting narked about it, I enjoy the typing practice :lol:

 

People are hardly going to join in and get excited about you and Dukest being in a little clique about what you're up to now are they?

 

I think a powerful "all motor" VR6 with good suspension mods will be a thing of beauty, looking forward to seeing the results. Been considering a Vbox myself actually.

 

As for the 268s and Schrick, best I've seen from "The big 3" (bored throttle, shrek and cams) is 225hp with 220ish torque.

 

Things get a little more interesting with a big valve head and a capacity increase.

 

In terms of low down torque and drivability, Shcimmel's 263 cams are way better than the 268s, imo....having used both.

[corozin 0]

Well since so few people are reading this thread (because it's not about bloody turbocharging)

Oh get over yourself. People ignore my posts all the time but there's no point getting narked about it, I enjoy the typing practice :lol:

People are hardly going to join in and get excited about you and Dukest being in a little clique about what you're up to now are they?

I think a powerful "all motor" VR6 with good suspension mods will be a thing of beauty, looking forward to seeing the results. Been considering a Vbox myself actually.

As for the 268s and Schrick, best I've seen from "The big 3" (bored throttle, shrek and cams) is 225hp with 220ish torque.

Things get a little more interesting with a big valve head and a capacity increase.

In terms of low down torque and drivability, Shcimmel's 263 cams are way better than the 268s, imo....having used both.

Kev,

Calm down my old son. That was a comment about all the sticky "charging/24v threads" not a pop at you. Do you not know me well enough by now to appreciate that much?

 

The vBox is a real toy. I managed to soften the blow by splitting the cost with a mate who also does trackdays. We've still got some sorting our to do, but I can report is does all the things it says on the box. The only problem I have to solve is to work out the correct offset calculations so I can overlay the traces on Googlemaps as the co-ordinates are out by about

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I can do you a "VR6 Naturally Aspirated Tuning" thread if you want as not everyone wants forced induction as you say? 8)

 

I'm sure someone started one off ages ago, with cams, adjustable vernier chain pulleys, flywheels, pullies etc in it but it didn't generate much interest IIRC. I think most folk are either scared of the VR6, or happy with it's standard output......

[tonedef 9]

.......I think most folk are either scared of the VR6, or happy with it's standard output......

That's a bit like "Light Blue Touch Paper & Retire to a Safe Distance" :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

:lol: It's true though! 80% of all VR6 queries are related to bad running, chains or induction kits!

[chriscorrado 0]

223 bhp

208 lbs ft torque at 3000 to 4000 rpm

on a new engine by stealth back in 2002

fully remapped chipstar and BMC filter

 

now full Miltek exhaust and cold air feed to BMC

H&R springs with Koni adjustables - well sorted

brakes are pagid grooved with fast road pads

 

probably now with 15k miles on engine pushing more than 223 bhp

 

Very quick car -surprises the odd Porsche driver!! without turbo lag or supercharge thirst

 

mpg excellent better than standard

 

this is my first posting if you want to know more ask

[cata 0]

I'm currently in the middle of an all motor VR6 build, it should hopefully be done sometime in spring. The best candidate for this is a worn down VR that's in need of a rebuild. In my case it was a misshift :lol: Transmission work helps a lot and will be covering that too.

If you guys are interested, I can post up progress and the end result. Up until now, it was just in the planning stage.

[steve @ 0]

Yeah post your build Cata be interested to see your plans

[corozin 0]

I'm currently in the middle of an all motor VR6 build, it should hopefully be done sometime in spring. The best candidate for this is a worn down VR that's in need of a rebuild. In my case it was a misshift :lol: Transmission work helps a lot and will be covering that too.

If you guys are interested, I can post up progress and the end result. Up until now, it was just in the planning stage.

 

@Cata:

What's your target specification? Have you got that far yet? I'm not going to post mine up for a few weeks yet, but I've acquired a stack of available parts/supplier sources and a couple of references you might want to read through which night be helpful to you when you get started. Let me know if you need any of these and I'll PM to you seperately.

 

Seriously a 24v lump makes a lot more sense in lots of ways. A 12v all-motor project will probably cost you more than a 24v if my experience is anything to go by, but if you really are committed to this then PM me & maybe I can help you a bit.

 

HTH,

John

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Very quick car -surprises the odd Porsche driver!! without turbo lag or supercharge thirst

 

mpg excellent better than standard

 

this is my first posting if you want to know more ask

 

Welcome aboard.

 

Have you got a bigger throttle aswell? Makes a nice difference in the mid and top ends.

 

Good setup for a norm asp VR, it's where I started with mine.

 

Turbo lag is non existent on the VR6 if you match the turbo to the engine's capacity and mods properly :-)

[cata 0]

It's hard to tell what the target specification will be, because nobody does bloody remaps for the VR's in this corner of the world. I may be able to convince my shop to get that software in the near future and that alone will free up 10-12 more hp hopefully. If not, I will end up driving all the way to where Bildon Motorsport is located, to get it done.

Some of you may have heard about the research that Bildon is doing in getting more out of the VR6 in n/a. I decided to trust him with a few things and I will piece my motor together with his advice. The original specs are in my sig, and the car was a ton of fun to drive.

 

This is what's planned for the next few months:

-GIAC 268* cam chip (until a proper remap is possible)

-Bildon Stage2 Head port

-Cat 272* or 280* cams (depending on how well they get the head to flow)

-Bildon balanced & magnafluxed crank (my knife-edged crank is prone to cracking apparently)

-Bildon ultra-lite rods

-New 2.9L pisonts

-Lightweight lifters

-Ferrea - valve locks, titanium retainers, HD valve springs, valves

-ARP studs

-Updated timing chain kit

-Sachs stage I clutch

-Lightened tensioner and power steering pulley

-Decat

 

This is planned out for when they get released and/or funds allow:

> -3.94 final drive (shorter gears)

> -TDI 5th gear (makes up for shorter gears and slows the engine rpm's for the highway)

> -Bildon Motorsport baffled sump (when available)

> -Bildon Motorsport intake/exhaust manifolds, if not then a Schrick VGI.

 

The reason why I wanted to continue with n/a is because I love how you can hear the different notes when taking long corners. Since I'm still a student, it will help with reliability but turbo will inevitably be the end result :lol:

 

@Corozin, please do when you find some time. I'm interested what you have learned. This is what I ended up learning after close to a month of research. Stay away from lightened crank pulleys, especially if your crank has been knife-edged, due to the fact that it's missing the harmonic balancer.

The head is heading out to Bildon next week 8)

 

Catalin

[chriscorrado 0]

no I haven't got a bigger throttle body but appreciate what you say - its still very quick - and next mod might be that thanks

my Audi S3 270bhp is not much quicker - I have a quarter mile hill near where I live and they both do 100 plus near the top how sad am I

[chriscorrado 0]

also I have been thinking if you want to go turbo you need forged pistons and strengthened con rods at the very least so thats an engine rebuild in itself

also with lower compression ratio , and to handle the power you will need stronger diff and driveshafts cos if you don't they will break and when they do boy is that costly

this applies also to supercharging to 300bhp as things break as people on this forum will no dought confirm, especially those that have blown their engines on th motorway! but if you keep to what this thread is saying you have stretched your car to its limitations without the risk of breaking it by going cams and shrick

I hope that makes sense

if not reply

[cata 0]

Haha, sorry I wasn't specific enough. Yes, the engine would need to be completely redone with that purpose in mind but I meant to say that a turbo will be the natural evolution. These engines are beautiful candidates for turbo applications because they can put out enough exhaust to reduce a lot of turbo lag. Unfortunately, with a turbo, you can't put it together and forget about it. It will always eat money and as a student, I wont be able to work all the time. I think it will be a lot of fun to go from one extreme to another because I really like these engines. I highly doubt that I will ever consider a 24v or 3.2 24v.

 

Thanks for looking out though. There is no stronger diff. than a Peloquin and the drive shafts seem to last just fine for sub 300chp applications if the driver puts the power down progressively and doesn't let the tires squeal in vain. Most of us can't help ourselves though, but it is an option if the budget runs out too fast. The stock differential itself is recommended to be upgraded, because of it's tendency to self-detonate, even with stock engines. There were many cases where this happened and it took out the bell-housing along with it.