Koni TAs and PI springs - ride pretty good now!

[fla 9]

I've recently fitted these to my car, teh springs are new but the shocks were bought off the forum. TBH, i'm not too implressed with the ride - seems quite hard ie i can feel everything on the road and at teh same time the handling is, while improved not superb. I dont think you can adjust the rears on the car i will try fiddling withthe fronts but what kind of setting have most done with the Konis to achiev something quite comfortable but with tightened handling? The front shocks 'wheeze' slightly on expansion, hope they're still ok? Is there any way to check the condition of the shocks? I replced all the upper mounts, but left the rear lower rubbers as they were.

[Jim Bowen 1]

i had konis on my last car and found them to be pretty damn stiff and a bumpy ride, then again i have the weitec ones now and they seem really crashy too (also have pi springs) maybe its the springs, i don't know

[fla 9]

I'm almost tempted to remove them and put it back to standard OR to use the springs on the standard shocks.

[mbaker8v 0]

Try the front shocks as soft as they will go... Generally for front wheel drive you want the front softer than the back for a starting place. If it still feels too hard and crashy, that set up is not for you. Then you can wind up the shocks half a turn at a time and see if you notice any difference.

 

Mark

[tandino 0]

Problem is its only the rebound that is adjustable on Koni's so with it set on full soft the car will bounce,

Ive tried loads of different settings on my Konigsports and the best compromise between body control and comfort is about 1/4 turn from full stiff on the fronts.

Dont forget the shocks have about the same amount of rebound stiffness be it front or rear but obviously the fronts have alot more weight to control so you need to run more rebound damping up front in comparison to the rear imho...

[Leonard 0]

I have Koni Ta and Eibach springs and the ride is very hard.

 

On the bumpy roads where I live the car is slower than on my old std worn suspension!

 

I have mine as soft as they go on the front to aid ride and traction and about 1/2 turn from full soft on rear.

[Leonard 0]

Also have you had your suspension lazer aligned since fitting? Handling will be pretty cr@p if not.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Koni TAs shouldn't "wheeze" over bumps. If they do, they're shot. I've had Koni / H&Rs on my MK2 Golfs aswell as the Corrado, and every time a front damper went "Phsshhhhht" over a bump, I knew it was shot and Koni replace it FOC.

Koni went through a bad spell a few years ago and I've had 4 faulty front shocks on 3 applications.

 

The difference between a working Koni and a shot one is profound though.

 

My preferred settings were 1.5 turns front, 0.5 turn at the rear. The front needs to be stiffer than the rear, or it can oversteer quite violently if you hit a patch of diesel on a wet roundabout. I've done that more times than I care to remember during 5 years of spring / damper testing, but if anything, it teaches you how to control it :D

 

PI springs generally have a more pliable spring rate compared to others, especially Eibach, so I'd say half your trouble is the dampers.

 

Totally agree with Leonard /\, Corrados are very fussy with alignment and general slack in the chassis.

[Leonard 0]

The front needs to be stiffer than the rear, or it can oversteer quite violently

 

Must be why my car is so much fun! :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It's down to personal tates mate. I do actually like the back to be stiffer, which is why I ran 325lb front springs and 275lb rears springs for a while (228lb rear would be the correct, "safer" rate, LOL!). The turn in is so much sharper, quicker and responsive, almost feels like a fat rear ARB .....but if you do have a fat rear ARB anyway, jesus it can bite your arse if you're not careful!

 

I've put the softer 228s back on and the car feels so much more neutral and controlable, but at the expense of turn-in.

[Leonard 0]

I've put the softer 228s back on and the car feels so much more neutral and controlable, but at the expense of turn-in.

 

IMO Its all about improving the turn in on the Corrado VR! I can cope with a bit of over steer now and again but I cant cope with a wishy washy front end :gag:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Eibach or Neuspeed 25mm rear ARB (or 28mm if you have tennis balls for kajunas) and standard front ARB (or no front ARB at all if you have footballs for kajunas)

 

Decent rear strut brace and no brace at the front.

 

Stiffer rear springs, along with more low speed bump and rebound

 

That will give you a nice oversteery, super sharp turn-in which you will love in the dry, but tread carefully in the wet!

[Leonard 0]

Eibach or Neuspeed 25mm rear ARB (or 28mm if you have tennis balls for kajunas) and standard front ARB (or no front ARB at all if you have footballs for kajunas)

 

Decent rear strut brace and no brace at the front.

 

Stiffer rear springs, along with more low speed bump and rebound

 

That will give you a nice oversteery, super sharp turn-in which you will love in the dry, but tread carefully in the wet!

 

I dont want to take up drifting! LOL

 

I have front and rear Neuspeed bars, no braces. Softer suspension front over rear and I likey. Low speed turn in could be better but its oversteery enough in the wet. Had an interesting trip once travelling over the Snake Pass in the wet with the boot loaded up to the max :D

 

Like the look of the KW V3's you suggest so will have to start saving my pennies.

[davidwort 0]

Koni TAs shouldn't "wheeze" over bumps. If they do, they're shot. I've had Koni / H&Rs on my MK2 Golfs aswell as the Corrado, and every time a front damper went "Phsshhhhht" over a bump, I knew it was shot and Koni replace it FOC.

Koni went through a bad spell a few years ago and I've had 4 faulty front shocks on 3 applications.

 

 

Oh great, so how can I tell if they're actually shot, my front TA inserts seem to make a fair bit of that sort of noise, but seem to have been like that as long as I can remember, they must be 4 or five years old now, I just assumed it was the gas dampers that sounded like that as the previous boge's were always noisy too.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I dont want to take up drifting! LOL

 

I have front and rear Neuspeed bars, no braces. Softer suspension front over rear and I likey. Low speed turn in could be better but its oversteery enough in the wet. Had an interesting trip once travelling over the Snake Pass in the wet with the boot loaded up to the max :D

 

Like the look of the KW V3's you suggest so will have to start saving my pennies.

 

You need more low speed bump and a bit more rebound to sharpen up the front, but with the V3s you can do that :D

 

Oh great, so how can I tell if they're actually shot, my front TA inserts seem to make a fair bit of that sort of noise, but seem to have been like that as long as I can remember, they must be 4 or five years old now, I just assumed it was the gas dampers that sounded like that as the previous boge's were always noisy too.

 

In my case I could feel the front end just lost a bit of control and felt a bit bouncy, even when the rebound was turned up, aswell as the noise.

 

I had this conversation with Vince at stealth a long time ago and he told me the Koni TA yellows aren't gas dampers, they're oil and shouldn't make noises. Koni seemed to agree because of the 3 or 4 we sent back to them, they were replaced no questions asked.

 

As they were replaced under warranty, Vince took the oppurtunity to compare my old noisy one with a new one and pressed the piston down and up by hand on both. The noisy one was noticably easier to move and made an oily squelching noise, which I guess when amplified by a car's weight and piston speed when hitting a bump, turns it into a "pshhht". It just sounded like oil was passing through the valves faster than it should be.

Once fitted, I did a 10 mile test drive over bumps and they were silent.

 

Now I'm trying to start some kind of mass hysteria for Koni yellow owners here, maybe they just get noisy with age, I don't know but I wasn't happy with it, and Koni replaced them. Can't say fairer than that to be honest but I could actually feel in the car's behaviour they were shot.

[fla 9]

Kev? How do i go about replacing them, as i bought them used from the forum? What kind of warranty do they have? They are TERRIBLE over bumps of any kind and the car does seem to sway a bit on an undulating road, rather than feeling nicely planted.

[andy 0]

The terrible over bumps bit I would say is normal, mine are horrible on any kind of rough surface, brilliant on a good road, awful on a bad road. If your car is swaying however I would say that is not to be expected and probably does indicate shot shock absorbers.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The Koni Yellows have a lot of high speed bump imo, nothing you can do about that, it's preset.

 

Lots of HS bump can give the car a harsh feel and pitching (front and rear not working in synch) over crests and bumps.

 

Do you know what the spring rate of your PIs are Fla? For road use, I find Corrado VR6s feel best with 325in lb front and 228in lb rear.

 

Out of interest, the High speed bump valve is for quick damper movements, such as kerbs, pot holes, bumps etc. The low speed bump valve takes care of slow, small movements, such as turning into a corner, braking etc. All but the super money dampers have factory preset HS bump, which is a shame as it really can make or break a kit. They often set it far too hard. Spax being a classic example. But HSB is the damper force most responsible for that "sporty" feel.

[fla 9]

Not sure about the prng rate Kev, tbh, i'll check the p/n on the website, might be some info there.

I think i'll go through the suspension discussion thread and see teh general comments re setups. As i've now put the standard shocks back on, yes it looks like its sky high, but it is very comfortable indeed, superb on the motorway and nice to drive around twon. Basically i want moreorless the same comfort but lowered by about 30-40mm tops. Maybe utopic?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Definitely utopic. People try and achieve this by cutting the OE springs down, but in doing so you increase the spring rate and therefore the low and high speed damper forces tuned to the factory springs, goes out the window.

 

If I were you I'd try and find out what the factory spring rates are (in NM cm or in lb) and get some aftermarket springs 30mm lower. The stock dampers should be OK with that tbh.

 

Or the more expensive way - buy some coilovers. Then you can tune the ride exactly how you want it.

[fla 9]

Think i'll save for some coilies then. Its all about budgets and i would prefer to get a good used set from the forum, though.

[paul20v 0]

 

I had this conversation with Vince at stealth a long time ago and he told me the Koni TA yellows aren't gas dampers, they're oil and shouldn't make noises. Koni seemed to agree because of the 3 or 4 we sent back to them, they were replaced no questions asked.

 

As they were replaced under warranty, Vince took the oppurtunity to compare my old noisy one with a new one and pressed the piston down and up by hand on both. The noisy one was noticably easier to move and made an oily squelching noise, which I guess when amplified by a car's weight and piston speed when hitting a bump, turns it into a "pshhht". It just sounded like oil was passing through the valves faster than it should be.

Once fitted, I did a 10 mile test drive over bumps and they were silent.

 

Now I'm trying to start some kind of mass hysteria for Koni yellow owners here, maybe they just get noisy with age, I don't know but I wasn't happy with it, and Koni replaced them. Can't say fairer than that to be honest but I could actually feel in the car's behaviour they were shot.

when you say koni ta yellows what do you mean ,

my koni ta are yellow and they are 100% gas they even lifted the front of my car slightly and when depressed off the car(without springs)

they pushed themselves back out

there koni T/A sports .

[Kevin Bacon 5]

No damper is 100% gas but after some digging the Koni Yellows are indeed gas charged. They still shouldn't make the pshhhhht noise over bumps though. I remember now, a knackered damper doesn't rebound on it's own when pushed by hand.

[davidwort 0]

mmm, my rear koni yellows are the 'off the car' adjustable rebound ones and having just had them off to replace the spring caps they are definitely not gas charged and never have been, if they were they would not fit in the original box as they would push themselves out too far!

 

There is a second type of rear koni yellow for the Corrado, these are top adjustable and have 5 rather than 2 spring base plate grooves, not sure if this type is gas charged.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

That's why they are packaged with straps that hold the piston rods pushed in. The top adjustable rears are gas charged.