Koni TAs and PI springs - ride pretty good now!

[fla 9]

My rear shocks only have a lip onto which the shock plate sits. You can fit a collar under this to effectievly push the plate upwards meaning a slightly harder ride.

 

Out of interest, how should the shocks move if okay when compressed? I want to see which ones are shot and get them rebuilt. I hate the yellow colour so might repaint them all after the rebuild.

[davidwort 0]

If you check on the koni website there are a number of different dampers and the full listings specify which ones are gas charged and which ones have multi position baseplates. So just because they don't rebound by themselves doesn't mean there's a problem, they misght not be gas charged ones.

I can't see why moving the baseplate will make the ride any different, all your doing is shortening/lengthening the damper which changes the ride height, the springs won't be compressed any more or less and the dampers are designed to work at a range of heights, well at least the models with adjustable baseplates are.

 

A badly worn damper will either be leaking oil or be very easy to push the pistons in (or pull them out), most 'sports' dampers will take several seconds to compress even under your full weight leaning on them. At the very least you want to make sure both dampers compress at the same rate under the same weight.

[paul20v 0]

No damper is 100% gas but after some digging the Koni Yellows are indeed gas charged. They still shouldn't make the pshhhhht noise over bumps though. I remember now, a knackered damper doesn't rebound on it's own when pushed by hand.

when i said 100% gas i meant i am 100% positive there gas not literally full of gas dohhh :)

the gas assists the spring and the oil does the damping.

[fla 9]

I've recently installed my rebuilt and repainted Konis with Pi springs. Cost me £60 per shock to get rebuilt, but they're basically new now :)

Maybe its just me being a bit of a wimp but i find them just a bit too hard. Handling is MUCH nicer though, so there is a major plus point, but i do find myself avoiding even the smallest undulation in the road.

Perhaps there is some adjustment to the shocks that i could do to make them just a little more compliant? Failing that, i believe the H&Rs are a bit softer? If anyone has a set they want to swop for the Pis, or just to sell let me know.

[dukest 0]

i have the H&Rs on mine Hasan if you want a comparison. i believe Crazydave has PIs on his and has said there is a noticable difference between his and mine. can drop by sometime if you want?

[fla 9]

John, that would be great. Just the comparison i'm looking for! Could you pm me your number again and i'll give you a bell?

[andy 0]

I've recently installed my rebuilt and repainted Konis with Pi springs. Cost me £60 per shock to get rebuilt, but they're basically new now :)

Maybe its just me being a bit of a wimp but i find them just a bit too hard. Handling is MUCH nicer though, so there is a major plus point, but i do find myself avoiding even the smallest undulation in the road.

Perhaps there is some adjustment to the shocks that i could do to make them just a little more compliant? Failing that, i believe the H&Rs are a bit softer? If anyone has a set they want to swop for the Pis, or just to sell let me know.

Where/how did you get them rebuilt? I could be up for some of that!

[fla 9]

took mine to a place in Newbury called Raceland, the guy's name is Paul. I'll dig out the details, he's a proper Koni rebuilder. Managed to take some pics of mine when they were in bits too.

[VRTrickster 0]

Hi, I could really do with contacting this guy paul too, as Ive just broken one of my adjusters on a strut! Please could you let me know as soon as you can, that would be great?

[harryc 0]

Where's a good place to get hold of the Koni's? Seems like a good option til i can afford KW V1's

[dukest 0]

Where's a good place to get hold of the Koni's? Seems like a good option til i can afford KW V1's

 

by the time you've bought front and rear koni shocks and some lowering springs to go with them (eg. H&R) then you'll have spent well over £500 and for the sake of an extra £150 odd quid you might as well just go straight for the KWs. I'm not saying the Koni/H&Rs are bad (you get damping adjustment for a start) but if you're set on coilovers you might as well just buy them now for the small difference in price.

 

hth, John

[fla 9]

Big thanks to Dukest for coming over - your Corrado drives and rides extremely well :D From our little drive on a few differnt surfaces (both running speedies & Koni TAs) mine is certainly a harder ride, although it is about 15mm lower than Johns (about 50mm, vs perhaps 35mm, we didnt measure). I would say that the H&R springs with the Konis give a ride better than the normal shocks (ie absorb bumps and undulations very well without jarring the car) but keeping body roll to a minimum, certinaly for my style of driving. The Pis keep it stable, but are lower hence less forgiving; anyone want to sell me their H&Rs or swop for a lower drop????

[dukest 0]

no problem Hasan!

 

Just saw this, might be worth a word with John to see what they're like if the other guy isnt interested?

 

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=92344

[fla 9]

just a thought today, perhaps i've assembled the shocks incorrectly as they may just be riding on the bump stops - adjusting the fronts doenst seem to affect the ride much at all. Question is: why would it be siting so low in the first place? shocks and springs are both basically new. I have some collars for the rears which i'll put on but the fronts, i dont hink there's any way to adjust the height, is there?

[dan 0]

just a thought today, perhaps i've assembled the shocks incorrectly as they may just be riding on the bump stops - adjusting the fronts doenst seem to affect the ride much at all. Question is: why would it be siting so low in the first place? shocks and springs are both basically new. I have some collars for the rears which i'll put on but the fronts, i dont hink there's any way to adjust the height, is there?

 

The koni's ride will also soften when you run them in a bit. Mine needed about 1500 miles before they setteled

[dukest 0]

it didnt feel like anything was necessarily wrong with them Hasan, although relooking at stuff today reminded me that the shocks arent meant to be run with very low springs (>35mm) and so they could be struggling a bit.

 

You may wish to use lowered springs with the Koni Sport range, if you do this please be aware the maximum lowering permitted is 35mm. Please also ensure that any bump stops are re-fitted this is to ensure no damage occurs to the valving if the damper bottoms out.

[fla 9]

Ah yes, this could be the issue, although Crazydave had the same combo and his 'looks' (and by his report) also seems to be pretty good. The PIs drop it by 40mm or so it says on teh spec but i'll measure the drop and see what it actually is. I did cut the bump stops down by about 25 mm (rears), perhaps this was too little? Didnt touch the fronts though, but it seems that the springs themselves are compressing more than normal perhaps. What are the arch-to-ground measurement for standard?

[Tekara 0]

Just a thought, PI did send you the correct springs didnt they? Having read all this i recall having issue when i received my order years ago as they came direct, i ended up with a box marked up Passat i believe and part of the label on the coils had been rubbed off. I complained and got an exchange set sent out. Worth checking as if you've been set something different the spring rates could be totally wrong for the VR.

 

Another thought, the H&R springs where design for early front top plates only whereas PI have two sets for the VR early and late - could be something in the design if your using the lates.

 

Amazing what gets jogged in your mind.

[fla 9]

Good point, although whilst i've just fitted them (actually had them fitted last year too, but found out that the shocks were mullered)unfortunately its been a while since i bought them, tbh. I checked the markings and they said 80-185 on the springs themselves although i'll check the site and see if there are other ones for the passat with the same markings.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

mine is certainly a harder ride, although it is about 15mm lower than Johns (about 50mm, vs perhaps 35mm, we didnt measure).

 

I checked the markings and they said 80-185 on the springs

 

A combination of two things conspiring to give you a crashy ride there.

 

Firstly, it sounds like you're a little on the low side. Only a small portion of the damper's travel is being used, therefore the car is liable to clout the bump stop regularly. To get ride quality, even with stiff springs, you need good travel.

 

Secondly, it also looks like you have quite a stiff spring. 80 is 80n/mm (Newtons/mm) spring rate. In old money, that is a 457 lb/inch spring. John's H&R springs are 70n/mm (IIRC from when I had them), which is 400lb/inch and a rate me and several others have identified as being pretty much as stiff as you want to go for the comfort / handling compromise in a road going Corrado.

 

I suspect, as Tekara pointed out, you might have been given the wrong springs because they A) sound too low and B) are a firmer rate than desired. Historically, the P1+Koni combo has always given a good ride quality.

 

Raising the ride height at least an inch would certainly help, but not really doable on fixed struts.

 

Or the better solution would be to source some different springs, with a modest ride height reduction. 60n/mm (325lb/in) front, 40n/mm (228lb/in) rear, with decent travel (2 finger gap bare minimum, in fact i'd go as far as saying 3 fingers if you're in 15s still) I've found works superbly.

 

For reference, a handy spring rate converter - http://www.huskyclub.com/springs.htm

[fla 9]

think you're right there Mr Sheet. Perhaps the springs have been wrongly labelled as these do seem to be the correct ones for the VR according to the PI site. You dont by any chance still have your H&R springs do you? I've also been offered some Nothelle springs, which are also apparently pretty good...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Sorry, I don't have my old H&R springs :(

 

Yeah Nothelle could be good, not sure of their rates though!

[fla 9]

well i took the rear shocks off and fitted the spacer to raise he height by 10-15mm. Its really transformed the car, i've reset the shocks, fully soft then two half turns. Also, one of my front shocks was not done up properly, so raised the other side and tightened to top bolt. Front is still a bit too low for my liking but the comfort is really pretty good and not too hard any longer. :D :D Thanks to Tekara, Dukest and Crazydave for your advice. Only thing now is i'm keen on a set of V1s, but they're MILES out of my proce range atm :( Why is is that when you solve a problem you want to get something better? Or maybe its me :cuckoo:

[Abdul 0]

well i took the rear shocks off and fitted the spacer to raise he height by 10-15mm. Its really transformed the car, i've reset the shocks, fully soft then two half turns. Also, one of my front shocks was not done up properly, so raised the other side and tightened to top bolt. Front is still a bit too low for my liking but the comfort is really pretty good and not too hard any longer. :D :D Thanks to Tekara, Dukest and Crazydave for your advice. Only thing now is i'm keen on a set of V1s, but they're MILES out of my proce range atm :( Why is is that when you solve a problem you want to get something better? Or maybe its me :cuckoo:

 

Bro just buy the weitecs, they ride the same imo. The ride was awesome on my rado when i first lowered it but i slammed it and the ride went down the drain but u get the point... if anything get the tx's.. u can adjust the dampers too then and they cost the same as the v1's. Just my 2 pence.

[krnau 0]

hey, any pics of these spacers? I used front top mounts to raise the rear of my car (I cut the front mounts so that they raised about 1.4mm) but it looks like it won't last for ever :lol:

 

where did you get the spacers from? What are they made of? how much did you pay?

 

thanks :)