andy 0 Posted July 16, 2009 Well almost! I've just changed the plugs on my VR6, GSF supplied Bosch Super, 4 electrode type FGR8KQE. The car starts and runs but its not happy at all. It is reluctant to respond and is generally rough, even the exhaust is 'chugging' a bit. I'm fairly sure its not a misfire. It doesn't want to rev past 3.5/4k. Having now looked at old posts on here I see that Bosch Supers are not exactly recommended. Are they so bad that the car would run that badly or is it likely my problem lies else where. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim 2 Posted July 16, 2009 Double checked the firing order? You've not got plug leads on in the wrong order have you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy 0 Posted July 16, 2009 No they're fine Jim, only popped the leads out a couple of notches on the guides. I just don't know from what people are saying if those plugs are bad enough to behave that badly on a cold engine or if they just mean they don't last long etc? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reggit 0 Posted July 16, 2009 I've never been a fan of bosch plugs, but that's after some incidents 20 years back, so not fair to slate them on those terms. :lol: Have your HT leads seated correctly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted July 16, 2009 Occam's razor - "All things being equal, the simplest answer is the usually the correct one" Change the plugs for the PROPER ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted July 16, 2009 Hmmm... Bosch have never been recomened by VAG for the VR6 but they are the correct Bosch plugs for that engine. Regardless of make and quality, brand new plugs should work fine for a while at least - I'd check the leads are seated fully - use a screwdriver to push down on them slightly - also did you use the proper tool to undo them? If you put NGK's in and it fixes the issue I reckon there is a chance the plugs might be fakes - maybe not that unlikely with the amount of chinese rubbish being sold by GSF these days... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millerman 0 Posted July 16, 2009 not a fan of bosch normally use ngk /denso, running platinium's at the mo but not overly impressed will try iridium's and if still good go back to the std 2 prong jobbies ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy 0 Posted July 16, 2009 Occam's razor - "All things being equal, the simplest answer is the usually the correct one" Change the plugs for the PROPER ones. Well, they were sold to me as the PROPER ones! Bosch aren't renowned for manufacturing rubbish, far from it. The funny thing is that it was running near perfect on 20k mile old NGKs that were oily and one had half the insulator missing. Looks like they'll be coming out before I head home from work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy 0 Posted July 16, 2009 also did you use the proper tool to undo them? Yes indeedy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrbeige 0 Posted July 16, 2009 You need to get the 'standard' VR ones. NGK BKR5EKUP IIRC. Had some Champion ones in our Golf VR, looked fine, and relatively new, changed them for the NGK, and it was like driving a different car. The difference was night and day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gregulate 0 Posted July 16, 2009 You need to get the 'standard' VR ones. NGK BKR5EKUP IIRC. Had some Champion ones in our Golf VR, looked fine, and relatively new, changed them for the NGK, and it was like driving a different car. The difference was night and day. I had the 'rough' drive with the bosch plugs, which admittedly were at least 18months old - changed for the 'standard' ones and like mrbeige the difference was astounding....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millerman 0 Posted July 16, 2009 VW did not spend millions of pounds desiging the engine to use NGK plugs for nothing you know :D thats why we all like to try something new . FAIL then tell the story on forums and then get told "use the factory part it works best " hence why im trying platinium ngk's then iridium ngk's then will prob go back to the std jobbies :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy 0 Posted July 16, 2009 I've now taken the plugs out and double checked everything, reseated the leads VERY carefully and guess what,.... It runs like a peach again. :D I'll see how they are in the long run.... Whoever said they saw a huge difference going from 18 month old Bosch plugs to brand new 'other' plugs, I have to say I'm not in the least bit surprised! As for you Mr Millerman! :) VW certainly didn't spend millions of pounds designing any engine to run with any particular make of plug! Thats a little bit like saying Panasonic TV remote controls are designed to run on duracell batteries :D Thanks for the comments :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millerman 0 Posted July 16, 2009 As for you Mr Millerman! :) VW certainly didn't spend millions of pounds designing any engine to run with any particular make of plug! Thats a little bit like saying Panasonic TVs are designed to run on duracell batteries :D OMG i thought i was the only person to know that about panasonic tv's :D :D :D :D :D im pretty sure most vr6's left the factory with the twin electrode ngk's did they not ?? i had a sharan vr6 :gag: for carting the kids and buggys around in and that had the 2 prong ngks in as did my vr6 even the local stealers said they did, honest guv !! :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
__Andy__ 0 Posted July 16, 2009 andy, ill have a word at work. if so bring them back and ill sort you out some ngk plugs as we stock them too!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted July 17, 2009 So you're saying you took the Bosch plugs out and put the NGKs back in, or put the Bosch back in again? Sounds like the latter, in which case it wasn't Occam's Razor, cause things weren't equal due to you not putting the HT leads back on properly :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy 0 Posted July 17, 2009 So you're saying you took the Bosch plugs out and put the NGKs back in, or put the Bosch back in again? Sounds like the latter, in which case it wasn't Occam's Razor, cause things weren't equal due to you not putting the HT leads back on properly :lol: I put the Bosch plugs back in. It would appear to have been an intermittant HT lead seating problem. They all felt good when they went on the first time, its never easy though is it, down that long deep hole! Seems to run as normal now, pulls like a b4st4rd and still managed 34mpg on the 30 mile trip to work this morning. They seem fine to be honest. I'll see how long they last.... The initial running problem, caused me to look on here about the plugs, peoples comments about them started alarm bells ringing even though I don't believe Bosch of all companies would specify a plug that wasn't suitable. Anyway, next job, clean the BMC CDA .......I think I've done about 35k miles on mine without cleaning, wish me luck! I'm hoping that will perk it up even more! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted July 17, 2009 I know exactly what you mean but what I would say is the NGK plugs have a much more defined "clink" when seating the leads compared to Bosch plugs. I've tried loads of different plugs on my engine, being as it's rather on the modified side, and the Bosch ones were always vague with HT lead 'clinking'! So I totally understand how you could have partially seated one. I don't use the Hazet tool to put plug leads back in, but rather press down on the metal part of the lead with a big screwdriver. That way you feel the 'clink' better :D Bosch specified those plugs for the VR6 and that's what GSF will give you, but it may not be a plug VW have tested and endorsed. Not necessarily a bad thing or completely the wrong plug, but most of us have had running issues with the Bosch 4s. I used to with those in my old 16V aswell funnily enough. You would think plugs are just plugs, but every single time on my engine, standard or modded, it always 'feels' best on NGKs. Weird, but that's the way of it! BMC cleaning is fun, not! Difficult not to over oil as it's not as simple as reoiling a flat panel filter! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
