16V 4-branch

[Diamond Hell 0]

After a few weeks with the 9A and it's bloody KE-Jet fuel misting system I'm ready to take it the hell out and fit the ABF I happen to have lying around (everyone has at least one spare motor lying around, don't they?). I've got the Golf3 ABF loom to fit up the Digifant 3.2, so it should run beautifully

 

I did a quick search on here, but there's not a lot about 16V 4-branches to suit the Corrado.

 

About the only one I've seen out there is a Miltek unit, which Awesome GTI have the last five of. It's listed for the Corrado, but says it's for Golf2. Does anyone know that this manifold will fit ok or not? I'm a bit loathe to spend nearly £300 on one if it might not fit!

[davidwort 0]

corrados use the same OEM downpipe as golf 2's and passats, so 4 branches are pretty much always listed as the same part too, the only problem I've seen is that the cables for the gearchange are very close to the pipes on a 4 branch and you can melt the nylon sleeves.

As an ABF is taller you may also get clearance problems that you wouldn't on a short-block motor.

You may need to cut/lower the rear engine mount if you want the 4 branch on the ABF.

Personally I've found a ported and polished OEM exhaust manifold and standard downpipe is great on a modded 2L 16v.

[Diamond Hell 0]

The heat's not an issue, as I'll heat-wrap the sucker.

 

Unfortunately I've had really good results with a home-built tubular manifold on the back of an ABF in a Syncro - +170bhp ain't bad for liberating some breathing :wink:

 

Whether I'll see anything as keen from a 4-1 vs the 4-2-1 I built I don't know, but it's going to be interesting finding out, as I have to build a second Syncro-specific manifold in the coming months.

[Diamond Hell 0]

No one's got any suggestions on what 4-branch to use?

[aide 0]

use either an ashley or a tsr one

 

i had no clearance issues on my KR/ 4 branch, but i was using standard engine mounts, any tilt in the engine makes a big diff over that arc of movement

 

you'll also need a wire bushing to connect upto exhaust

[Kempy 0]

so a ashley golf mk2 16v is what I need?

[aide 0]

yup, they come on ebay a lot, there's someone selling new ones on the bay that *look* quite good too

[CazzaVR 0]

I've got a TSR one. The gear cables were resting straight on it and had melted through :shock: (think this is the one David was referring to!). DG Autotech made a bracket which mounts to the subframe. This just holds the cable out of the way. Job done! Otherwise there is plenty of clearance under the bulkhead.

[Kempy 0]

tsr wanted £265, from an email I got today, I wasnt looking to spend that much tbh

[mimjed 0]

I was under the impression golf mk2 and corrado manifolds are different. Because of steering rack.

 

I bought one made for a corrado on this basis, could be wrong though.

[Diamond Hell 0]

TSR just quoted me £320 for a 4-branch, which was apparently 'designed last week and we're awaiting stock'.

 

I've asked if it will fit when heat-wrapped, but they don't know. So much for product testing :roll:

[Kempy 0]

hmm I dont wanna pay £265 so £300+ is too much for me

[Diamond Hell 0]

I bought one made for a corrado on this basis, could be wrong though.

 

Which one did you buy?

 

It's likely that the difference is more to do with the cable-change gearbox mechanicals than the steering rack, but I'm happy to be corrected on that.

[pumbaa 0]

I've been looking for a decent 4 branch for a while now, and one of the issues puzzling me is whether they normally have a 2 or 3 hole flange at the end of them? I currently have the standard downpipe which the previous owner has butchered by removing the flange and welding a piece of pipe that connects it directly to the exhaust because he was too tight to buy a de-cat.

 

This would be ok but I've recently purchased a miltek and have an old de-cat pipe that has a 3 hole flange.

 

So finally my question is, does the standard downpipe have a 2 or 3 hole flange? I thought it was 3 but most 4 branches seem to have a 2 hole flange.

 

I've been told I will get very little gain if I fit a 4 branch, is this true even if I'm porting and polishing the head and fitting abf cams?

 

Thanks,

 

Kunaal

[davidwort 0]

I know for a fact that all 4 cylinder VW engines from this era benefit from a well designed 4 branch, some engines benefit more than others though. 8V GTI's can see up to 10hp when combined with big valve ported heads and the right cams.

The 16v doesn't benefit as much as the 8v engines do as it's cast iron manifold is better than the 8v ones to start with.

By internally polishing the standard 16v cast iron manifold you'll get pretty good results and keep standard parts, TSR used to do this but it's less of a money spinner than 4 branches.

It's unlikely that you'll see much difference from this on all but the most highly tuned 16v engines, by that I mean flowed heads, high lift cams and engines built to rev well over the 7,200 rpm (the KR red-line)

You might get say a small improvement in peak power on a 16v with a 4 branch, but you'll get some with a ported OEM one too and not loose any torque, so hp per £ it's never stacked up for me, far better things on the car to spend 300-500 quid on.

[pumbaa 0]

Great, thanks for the info. I might just get a standard downpipe then to replace my butchered one. Though i will keep an eye out for a decent secondhand one at the right price. :D

 

Anyone know if the standard downpipe has a 2 or 3 hole flange? So i know if i need a new de-cat pipe or not.

 

Kunaal

[Diamond Hell 0]

I've got to counter this one.

 

A mate and I made a 4-2-1 manifold to suit a Golf2 Syncro, to fit on an ABF. Here it is in all of it's glory prior to wrapping and fitting:

 

 

The ABF went in OEM, down to only fitting a clean panel filter, on a standard ECU - we actually checked the cheaksums on the chip after to make sure it was OEM.

 

Just by getting the gasses away faster, on equal length tubes and making the secondaries as long as possible to plump the torque curve we pulled 173bhp out of this ABF:

 

 

That was corrected for clutch drag due to the wrong plate being supplied by GSF.

 

A *good* 4-branch really does seem to give the ABF some serious legs, which is why I'm so keen to get one on the Corrado when I fit the ABF I have.

 

It's annoying that no one offers a 4-2-1 - more work I guess.

[dirtytorque 0]

so why don't you make one for your corrado then? :)

[mimjed 0]

mine was only a cheapy of ebay, about 170 delivered (new)

 

only complaint about it was the holes didnt quite line up with the studs, but nothing a small amount of filing didnt fix.

 

other than that seems to be made pretty well, welds are good, pretty clean on the inside. no contact with cables, steering rack or heat shield.

 

they have a few 16v on ebay but all listed as golf mk2, and a couple of second hand ones. great fun fitting them too :lol:

[davidwort 0]

I've got to counter this one.

 

right, well if I read the detail on your RR session right, your ABF is making less at the wheels than my standard 1.8 KR did :lol:

 

My 2L (6A running on the 1.8 K-jet and with the milder KR cams than the ABF) is now doing 140 ATW

 

me thinks the estimated transmission losses on that RR session are way over the top and the car is putting out nearer 140bhp at the crank.

[Diamond Hell 0]

so why don't you make one for your corrado then? :)

 

I was hoping for something off the shelf! There's nothing whatsoever off the shelf for a 16V Golf2 Syncro with an ABF, so that wasn't an option.

 

I've got to counter this one.

 

right, well if I read the detail on your RR session right, your ABF is making less at the wheels than my standard 1.8 KR did.....

 

....me thinks the estimated transmission losses on that RR session are way over the top and the car is putting out nearer 140bhp at the crank.

 

methinks you've not considered that the car is 4WD, so has horrendous transmission losses :wink:

 

As a measure of consistency, here's a graph from the same rollers, with my G2 Syncro 2.0 8V crossflow on it:

 

 

The transmission losses are enough to make your nose bleed!

 

Reassuringly, on a track, despite these huge losses I'm still at least as fast as a comparable 8V GTI and when it rains it's :wave:

 

Apples with apples, not apples with apples that have had a big bite taken out of them. :wink:

[davidwort 0]

still high losses even for 4wd :scratch:

that would have made the standard G60 rallye way slower than an 8v GTI, I know they were slowed by the weight but they must have got more to the ground than about 100hp :shrug:

did you RR it before changing the standard manifold and downpipe?

[Diamond Hell 0]

still high losses even for 4wd

 

I realise that, but it's broadly similar for both Syncros and witha RR it's the consistency that really matters (to me), rather than the ultimate figures.

 

did you RR it before changing the standard manifold and downpipe?

 

Sadly not possible for either, as there is no standard manifold and downpipe for an ABF in a Syncro. I see where you're going with that and yes, it would have been useful, but we only have limited time and budget!